Question. The Saturday before there had been a meeting of whites in which they thought they had made peace?

Answer. Yes, sir.

Question. Have there been any troubles since?

Answer. Yes, sir; that was the 1st of April; and did they not afterward beat me, and June Moore and Ross Watson and Francis Johnson and Billy Barron, and others besides? Since that Samuel Simmons's house was burned. All these things were since that resolution was drawn up and passed in Yorkville for making peace among white and black; and long since that resolution at the meeting at the forks of the road in which they pledged themselves to come to the black people's assistance.

By Mr. VAN TRUMP:

Question. All that was done by six men, was it not?
Answer. Yes, sir. There were six men at my house.

By Mr. STEVENSON:

Question. When were they at your house?

Answer. On the night of the 5th of May.

Question. What is the feeling out there now among the colored people?

Answer. Those that are not arranging to go to Liberia have some hope, through the operation of this sub-committee here and elsewhere, and that they will pacify the whites, who will cast off the Ku-Klux in such degree that we hope the times will be better for them. We hope for much through the operation of this snb-committee, and through the punishment of the Ku-Klux, who are the neighbors generally, so that the times will eventually come that those who want to go away now may stay, finding that they can live in peace. But for certain of us, we have lost hope entirely since the whites pledged themselves at the meeting at the forks of the road three miles from where I live, and then broke all those pledges; those whites that professed to be our friends then have since cried out and rejoiced in our hearing over our injuries and sufferings. That is the reason we have arranged to go away. Others are still hoping, as I said, for relief through the means of this sub-committee.

Question. What is the temper of the white people, do they rejoice over these outrages? Answer. They did, from what they said.

Question. What is their temper now?

Answer. I cannot tell you from what I have seen myself, for this is the first time I have been carried out.

Question. What is your information on that subject?

Answer. I will tell you the impression: They are so afraid just now that, with the exception of one in a hundred, they cannot bear to see a blue-coat coming out there; they cannot bear to hear of the officers bringing them up here; it frightens them. The other day, when the summons came for me to come here, a young man that I had thought was innocent was seen to jump out of his father's house and run, without coat or hat, as if for his life. Hearing of so many Ku-Klux having been taken up in other counties, and expecting that these men were after him, he did not wait to be halted, but ran. Not one in fifty of them now but is uneasy and trembling at the sight of an officer or a blue-coat, and staying out in the woods by day, and some by night, like we used tonot myself, but our people. I thought my pitiful condition would screen me, but all our colored people that could walk, males and females, and many children, staid out during last winter and spring. Now the white men, the young men and boys, from fifteen to the gray-headed, are out, some by night and hunting by day, an excuse that if a summons should come for them they would be absent. Some in my neighborhood have fled the State, and others are ready to go.

Question. What, in your judgment, would be the condition of affairs if the United States troops were not here?

Answer. I would not then have come up here to report for anything in the world, for I would have expected to have been killed to-night if I had. Men have been run out of the State for reporting outrages. Major Merrill knows of men having been run out for reporting to him. Addison Woods had to leave his home in my neighborhood because they accused him of reporting. There is Jack Garrison; he is here in town now. Why? Because he could not stay in his own home. They accused him of reporting what they had done to him, and he had to flee.

Question. Reporting to whom?

Answer. To the troops, the first troops that came here. They accused him of reporting to them and run him out. There was Abraham Broomfield. You sent a summons for him to testify here, but he has had to flee the State.

By Mr. VAN TRUMP :

Question. Why was that?

Answer. Because he could not stay at home, being a leading man and a republican. I am not naming whites now. These are black men. There is James Bynum; he has

been beaten in Ebenezer.

By Mr. STEVENSON:

Question. How much do you weigh?

Answer. I do not know; I have never been weighed.

Question. Your legs seem to be about the size of a man's wrist?
Answer. Yes, sir.

Question. Your arms are withered?

Answer. Yes, sir; you see them. My right side was first affected, and it yet feels the most affliction. I suffer more pains in the right than in the left side. Though it has been forty-five years since I walked, the pain is yet running up and down the right side. The bones of my mouth are stiffened so that I cannot move the jaws like other

men.

Question. You cannot travel taking care of yourself, but could you not emigrate to some State out West?

Answer. I have learned from papers and from pamphlets and speeches-here is one [producing a pamphlet]—and from letters Mr. Wallace has sent me, that in some of the Western States these outrages are as bad as they are here. It is so in Mississippi and Tennessee and other States. By documents that Mr. Wallace has sent me from Congress, I saw that those Western States toward which I had looked are worse plagued than we are, if it is possible, and I did not know where to flee. I wrote to the American Colonization Society at Washington, and they have been sending me papers and pamphlets for some time. In them I found that in Liberia there was greater encouragement and hope of finding peaceful living and free schools and rich land than in any place in the United States that I have read of. These things encourage us a great deal in our intention to move away to Africa. That is where my father came from.

Question. Do you think Africa is your only refuge now?

Answer. In a general way I do-that is, for general peace, abiding peace and prosperity for me and my race, and for the elevation of our people.

By Mr. VAN TRUMP:

Question. This paper you took from your pocket is only part of a document. Do you recollect whose speech it is?

Answer. I have the balance of it at home.

Question. What was the name of the gentleman who made the speech?

Answer. I forget the name. That is only a part of a speech which I took to wrap a letter in.

Question. Would you recollect the name if you heard it? Was it the Hon. Mr. Stevenson?

Answer. No, sir; I think that is part of a speech by Mr. Butler.

Question. You do not feel very kindly toward the white race?

Answer. I am afraid of them now.

Question. Frightened at them?

Answer. Yes, sir. I have good-will, love, and affection toward them, but I fear them. Question. Is that because you are a Baptist, or why?

Answer. I know it is my duty as a human being to respect all the human race, and also the grace of God teaches me to say so.

Question. When you get to preaching, do you not show up the wrongs and oppressions suffered from these white people?

Answer. Yes, sir.

Question. Is that what you generally preach about?

Answer. Yes, sir; love universal.

Question. I do not wish to mislead you or have you answer without fully understanding my question.

Answer. Please to ask it again.

Question. I ask you if the subject-matter of your sermons is the wrongs and cruelties inflicted by these white people?

Answer. No, sir; not at all. I was accused of that on the night when they beat me; but that is not the subject on which I preach; it is Scriptural salvation.

Question. You have the idea that these white people are determined to put you black people down?

Answer. Yes, sir; I have that idea very strongly. They are determined to keep us from using any influence for republicanism, which we believe is God's will. I do believe it comes nearer to God's will and universal love and friendship in this world than any other.

Question. You mean republican government ?

Answer. Yes, sir.

Question. Do you also mean the republican party?

Answer. Yes, sir. I believe the republican party advocates what is nearer the laws of God than any other party, and therefore I feel that it is right.

Question. When you are preaching, do you preach republicanism in your sermons?

Answer. No, sir; I preach the Gospel, repentance toward God, and faith in our Lord Jesus Christ.

Question. Do you never preach about politics?

Answer. No, sir.

Question. Then these Ku-Klux were wrong in their accusation?

Answer. Yes, sir; they were,

Question. Do you disbelieve the whole of those white people who made those pledges at the meeting in this town, and at the forks of the road, because six men have since abused you?

Answer. As I told you, not one in fifty of them now but will run and hide from what they consider a Yankee. Just let a man in a Yankee uniform go out there, and not one in fifty of our white neighbors but will run. What makes them run but guilt-conscious guilt?

Question. Have you seen fifty men run from a Yankee soldier?

Answer. That is what they are doing, as I learn by reports.

Question. You get those reports from the colored people?

Answer. Yes, sir.

Question. Are all the colored people as intelligent as you are?

Answer. I cannot say that they are.

Question. You say it is an actual fact that affairs have changed right around, so that instead of the black people being in the woods the white people are there?

Answer. Yes, sir.

Question. Do you mean that up in that country the white people are generally lying out in the woods at night?

Answer. By day they are, and I hear that they are at night.

Question. You hear this from the colored people?

Answer. Yes, sir; they stay out for fear.

Question. You are not able to go around yourself?

Answer. No, sir.

Question. You depend for information about worldly affairs upon others?

Answer. Yes, sir.

Question. You depend upon the colored men-your own race?

Answer. Yes, sir. They visit me.

Question. They come and tell you that all the white people are lying out in the woods? Answer. Yes, sir, generally-the males.

Question. In how large a scope of country does that state of things exist?

Answer. As far as I can hear. Clay Hill extends along the river Catawba, which is the line between North and South Carolina; it is from Alison's Creek, to the post office. Question. What are the distances?

Answer. From the river to Bethel is ten miles; from the creek to the north line is eight or nine miles.

Question. Then that is a region eight or ten miles square?

Answer. Yes, sir. Since they heard reports of the coming of this sub-committee and the word from North Carolina, they are generally showing fear and fleeing.

Question. And that state of things extends over a tract eight or ten miles square? Answer. Yes, sir; from what I hear.

Question. From whom?

Answer. From colored persons.

Question. Do colored persons come from all that wide-spread country and tell you? Answer. Yes, sir. When I preach there are a great many come who are acquainted all over there, and sometimes they told others who told me.

Question. At how many churches do you preach?

Answer. There is a church two miles and a half from me.

Question. Is that up in this country you describe?

Answer. Yes, sir; that is one. My house is a regular place of preaching, and that church is two miles and a half north. We generally meet up in the western part of the neighborhood, and hold meetings among the colored people.

Question. Do the black people hold meetings in the western part of the country you have spoken of?

Answer. Yes, sir.

Question. Then your charges are scattered all over this district of ten miles square? Answer. Yes, sir; the congregation is.

Question. But the place where you preach-is it there?

Answer. Yes, sir.

Question. How do you travel from one place to another?

Answer. Just as I came here, as you saw.

Question. You are carried by other persons?

Answer. Yes, sir.

Question. Can you ride in a wagon?

Answer. Yes, sir; but I have a carryall.

Question. Am I to understand from you that since this committee has been here those white people have been sleeping out in the woods over that extent of country ? Answer. Yes, sir, generally.

Question. How often have you traveled over that space of country preaching since this committee has been here?

Answer. Not any since Saturday. The sub-committee came last Saturday, I understood.

Question. Then you have not learned this in traveling around to preach?

Answer. No, sir; but from persons coming to my house.

Question. How many have come to your house?

Answer. A good many.

Question. Just your neighbors?

Answer. I think from six or eight miles. Last Sunday there were a good many. Question. What did they come for?

Answer. They were just visiting--passing and repassing.

Question. Did they tell you this fact?

Answer. Yes, sir; a great deal of it.

Question. Is not all this about that great number of people through that wide-spread country sleeping out in the woods since Saturday a mere fiction?

Answer. I do not know myself.

Question. Do you believe it?

Answer. From those that reported it, I believe a great part of it. I do not believe all I hear.

Question. You intended this committee to believe it when you swore it was your information?

Answer. That is my information-to that effect.

Question. And you believe it?

Answer. I believe that it was a general thing.

Question. With all the male persons?

Answer. Generally speaking.

Question. You mean the majority?

Answer. Yes, sir; that is the report that came.

Question. The report that came around was that the white people generally over that whole district of country have been sleeping out in the woods since Saturday? Answer. They are out by day, and many are out at night; they are generally absent by day for fear of a summons, and, as I said at first, many, I hear, are sleeping out at night for fear of a summons, but I cannot say how many.

Question. You say that, instead of the white people coming to your rescue on the night of the 5th of May, as they had pledged themselves to, the next day when they heard of it they rejoiced?

Answer. That is the report, sir.

Question. Did they rejoice that such a pitiful man as you had been whipped?

Answer. That was the fact, from what rumor said.

Question. Who rejoiced?

Answer. From rumor must I tell?

Question. Yes.

Answer. My near neighbors. Do you want their names?

Question. Yes.

Answer. James L. Bigger.

Question. What did he do?

Ånswer. The next morning he came over to a colored woman and told that he knew ; he had heard I would be whipped and well might I expect it. And another nearer neighbor, S. D. Simmons, said he knew that they would come, and I might look for them on account of the Union League meetings that had been held there at my house, that I might expect it. S. D. Simmons, who is right by me, said that.

Question. Was that before or after you were whipped?

Answer. Both before and after it too.

Question. He told a colored person that?

Answer. Yes, sir.

Question. Who ?

Answer. The one working for him.

Question. Why did he not tell you ?

Answer. Why! why! There are two families. I could name others I heard of, near neighbors, who could tell that they were coming upon me.

Question. Assuming as true that they said you would be whipped, is that rejoicing?

Answer. If you knew a man was going to be whipped and beaten, would you not try to hinder it?

Question. Yes, sir.

Answer. Would it look like you were a friend if you did not?

Question. Unless I was afraid.

Answer. I do not think you would be. That is the reason why we think they rather rejoiced than were sorry.

Question. Now, tell us who rejoiced and how they rejoiced.

Answer. I will tell you. J. L. Barry-[The witness had several times in the foregoing examination suddenly changed his voice for a moment to a hoarse whisper.] Question. Why do you whisper when you mention persons? Can others hear you outside of this room?

Answer. No, I suppose not, but I feel afraid of others hearing. We are always afraid now and careful.

Question. What about Barry?

Answer. He could tell and did tell others of their coming to whip me, and as to Sam Simrell's barn being burned, that he expected it; and of Addison Woods that was run off, that he expected it.

Question. That makes three; give us a fourth.

Answer. Mrs. Wallace, James L. Bigger's sister, was another.

Question. What did she say?

Answer. She said, calling a name, I might expect it; I might well expect it.

Question. That was after it was done?

Answer. Yes, sir.

Question. Who was the fifth?

Answer. Some of the Nealys over the creek.

Question. Did they expect the same thing?

Answer. Yes, sir; I say it from rumor.

Question. All this was after it was done?

Answer. Yes, sir; some before.

Question. Are there any others?

Answer. Yes, sir; I have heard of others. Mr. J. B. Partlow.

Question. You need not whisper the names here.

Answer. But I am always so suspicious in speaking of these things, always watching, so that I do it even in answering you.

Question. Was this before or after you were whipped?

Answer. Both before and after. He was surprised at their whipping my sister-in-law, but not at their whipping me.

Question. Who else?

Answer. E. A. Faris.

He lives over the river.

Question. Did he expect it?

Answer. Yes, sir.

Question. Was that said afterward or before?

Answer. Afterward; so I have heard.

Question. Without accumulating any more names, does it or not strike you as remarkable that these six or seven persons at different times and without being together should express the same thing-that they had expected that you would be whipped, and that you might have expected it?

Answer. I have often thought since that they must have had some idea of it.
Question. That was the idea in your brain?

Answer. Yes, sir.

Question. A pretty active brain for a colored man, that was the idea reveling in your brain, that these men must have known something about it in advance?

Answer. Yes, sir, or they would not have said that.

Question. So that you were not surprised at the singular coincidence of this number

of men and women making precisely the same remark?

Answer. That is the fact. If I am wrong in judgment you will correct me; but I am to tell all the facts as straight as I possibly can, according to my best judgment, though I have to answer a part of what you ask me from rumor.

By Mr. STEVENSON:

Question. Did you ever give to your congregations of colored people, whether in sermons or otherwise, advice to commit any kind of violence on any person or on anybody's property?

Answer. Never.