Question. Yes, sir. Answer. I never met in my life. Question. The only time you ever met as a clan was on the night of your initiation? Answer. That's the only time we ever met in secret session as a clan. Question. Did you ever meet in open session as a clan? Answer. We met on this raid and on that raid at the court-house, but we were not disguised that night at all. Question. Which night were you not disguised? Answer. The night that we were at Sam Hall's office, the ammunition night; there was no disguise that night. Question. How did you know who was chief of the clan you belonged to ? Answer. Rufe McLain was chief. Question. How did you know? Answer. I knew it by an election. Question. Was there an election? Answer. There was an election, but Avery appointed McLain chief of the clan. Answer. Down at the shop. Question. How do you know? Answer. Because Rufe told me so and gave my name on his list. Question. You first said he was elected, and then appointed? Answer. I say not an election, exactly, but Question. There is no election, but appointment of superior officers? Question. How many of these clans are in Yorkville? Answer. As far as my knowledge extends I think there's three. Question. Ten in each? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. There were thirty Ku-Klúx in this town, then? Answer. Yes, sir; I suppose so; probably more than that. I didn't know all the KuKlux-don't pretend to know them all in this place. Some of them are so sharp, so cowardly, they never would recognize anybody and never come out after they joined. Question. How do you know that? Answer. Because they never went out. Question. If you only know that they belonged to it because they never went out, how do you know it at all? [A pause.] What do you say? What do you say? Answer. Some were so cowardly they would keep even if they did belong to it. Question. How do you know they belonged? Answer. Because, by their action in open day-light; they were so cowardly they wouldn't come out. Question. How do you know they were Ku-Klux? Answer. I didn't say that; I said even if they did belong to it. Question. You mean that some of the citizens here, it may be, who belonged to it, are cowards? Answer. Yes, sir; I don't say all the citizens of Yorkville are Ku-Klux. Answer. I think he was the chief over them; I think he was general chief of the Ku-Klux of this upper portion of the county; I think all obeyed his will; I don't know; I wouldn't swear that. Question. Is there an organization that includes, in that single organization, the whole county? Answer. They are all divided into clans; there is a general chief somewhere. Answer. I don't know how many. I suppose he was-I think he was chief of all the clans in York and the upper portion of the county, from the way in which he acted. Question. Then the county must he divided into two or more divisions of Ku-Kluxism? Answer. It might have been. I don't pretend that my knowledge extends further than York. Question. What makes you think Mr. Avery was grand commander of so much territory? Answer. Because he appointed these others over the clan. Question. That you know only from information? Answer. That's all the way I know anything about it. Question. Did you ever meet Mr. Avery as a Ku-Klux? Question. How? Answer. As one meets another. Question. How is that? Answer. We met at night? Question. He replied? Answer. Yes, sir, to say n-o-t h-i-n-g-spelling it. Question. On what occasion was that? Answer. I don't remember the occasion; it was night. Question. Was it on the occasion of another excitement? Answer. No, sir; it was about the same time of this excitement; and he told me to go to his store and get a gun. I went and got it. Question. Whom did you get of? Answer. I got it out of the store. Question. Who from? Answer. From Dan. Williams. Question. This same Dan. Williams you have spoken of? Answer. Yes, sir; he clerks for Avery. Question. What made him say go and get a gun? Answer. Because the negroes were coming, as they said, and I had no arms. He said, "Go to my store and get a gun." Question. Was that all the conversation? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Where did you meet him afterward as a Ku-Klux ? Answer. That's the only time I ever met him as a Ku-Klux, but I have seen him as to a paper Rufe McLain had got. Question. If he is commander-in-chief of some general organization, including the town or part of a county, he is not captain of a clan, then? Answer. I don't know anything about him being captain more than the clans of Yorkville and the upper portion of the county. I don't pretend that he is superintendent of the State. Question. How came you to speak of Avery's clan? Answer. He is captain of a clan in town. Question. He is captain as well as general, then? Answer. Yes, sir; we have privates as well as full generals. Question. You said he was chief of a clan here in town? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. And you gave some parties who belonged to it? Question. Who are they? Answer. Bill Colcock, John Hunter. I think John Tomlinson either belonged to his olan or Dan. Williams's. Question. Who else? Answer. John Hunter; and Snyder belonged to one clan; I don't know which. Answer. William Snyder; I don't know which clan he belonged to, but to one of these clans up town. Question. You do not say he belonged to Avery's clan? Question. I asked what men belonged to Avery's clan? Answer. I don't know them all; I told you that this morning once or twice or three times. You can't expect me to know everything that is happening. I am not so generally well-informed as that. Question. Is there any other person beloning to Avery's clan that you have not mentioned just now? Answer. Not that I know of. He has his clan, but I don't know who it is. He has his clan of ten-my knowledge is not general. Question. I want you to think of anybody else you can that belonged to it? Answer. Sometimes a man is apt to get confused with so much questioning. [A pause.] Question. I will give you a reasonable time. I do not want to wait too long. Who else, if any, belonged to the clan ? Answer. To Avery's clan? Question. Yes. Answer. Well, there is Cal. Parish; he belongs to that clan, either to Avery's clan or the other. Question. I am asking about Avery's clan? Answer. Well, I will endeavor to tell you about Avery's clan. Question. You say Bill Colcock and Cal. Parish belonged to Avery's clan? Answer. Yes, sir, and John Hunter. Question. And you gave John Tomlinson? Answer. I said I didn't know whether he belonged to that or Dan. Williams's. Question. Which did you say Tomlinson belonged to this morning ? Answer. I can't recollect now. Question. Is that all you want to say? Answer. Yes, I believe that is all I want to say. I may have time to study up this thing better. Question. I want to give you fair and full time now-reasonable time. Answer. As this may be the last time I may be ever called upon to give my evidence Question. I do not know. Answer. Well, if there is any more it slipped my memory. Question. I will read to you what you said this morning: "Daniel Williams, John Tomlinson, John Hunter, and Samuel Ross belonged to Avery's Klan." You now leave out Ross and add Parish and Colcock. Answer. Those two I gave you just now belong to the Klan. Those others I gave you this morning had slipped my memory. The other Klan was there. I see my evidenceI may get confused sometimes and perhaps not tell the same story exactly as you wish me to do it. Question. You say this Ku-Klux is organized all over the counties of the State? Answer. That's the general report among the Ku-Klux. Question. You do not know it as a fact yourself? Answer. I never met them in Winnsboro. I have met them in Columbia and Spartanburgh, and I suppose they are as apt to be anywhere else as in those places. Question. Who was Govan Hopper? Answer. He is chief of a Klan up above here. Question. Above where? Answer. Above York. Question. How far? Question. You say four or five in all of these Klans are in the county? Answer. I think there is about that many. Question. That is your information? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. You said in the first place you had never been on any of these raids? Question. You told that a long time afterward. Answer. I told it when I was asked. I didn't come here to advance evidence but to answer questions. Question. In an answer on your direct examination you said you had never been on any raids? Answer. Never, except on those two. Question. You described those raids very particularly a long time afterward; why did you not think of that in the first place? Answer. I was not asked about them. When I was asked about them I told. Answer. I said I was not. Question. And you said that you never were on any of these raids Answer. I never was on any outside. I was on these two. Question. You had not made up your mind at that time to answer fully? Answer. No, sir. I had told these two men before I had told you where I had been. That wouldn't have done me any good to have went back in that style. Question. Who did you say was at and engaged in the murder of Rainey, otherwise called Williams? Answer. I say all the men I know from town was Dr. Bratton, Rufe McLain, John Hunter, and John Tomlinson. Question. How do you know? Answer. From Rufus McLain's mouth. I told that this morning. Question. You know it in no other way? Answer. In no other way; only by Rufe McLain. Question. On what particular raid did Rufe McLain tell you that? Answer. He told me the next morning after the thing occurred. Question. Where? Answer. Haven't I told you about the man being hung? Question. Where did he tell you? Answer. At the shop; Kerr's shop. Question. Does he work there? Answer. He worked there. Question. Was he working there then? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. How did it happen you did not go out that night? Answer. Because I didn't want to go. Question. Were you warned to go? Answer. No. I was warned to go one night after some guns, and I wouldn't go. That was the only time I was ever warned. They didn't put enough confidence in me. Question. You are not a favorite with them? Answer. No, sir. Question. You think you have not the material for a Ku-Klux? Answer. No, sir. Question. You said you were a devil of a fellow? Answer. I am. Question. Don't it take such a fellow to make a Ku-Klux? Answer. I am pretty the devil of a fellow, but I haven't got that much devil in me— not to murder a man, I don't like that. Question. What murder of a man do you mean? Answer. He was killed above here. Question. What were the circumstances of this murder? Give us some clew to it? Answer. The party that went there went to his house and asked his wife where he was. She told them he was in the house. They took him off some two hundred yards below-so I am informed-and they put an end to his existence. Question. Who was along? Answer. John Tomlinson, John Hunter, and Bill Colcock are the only ones I know. There may have been a hundred others. Question. Do you not know any more? Answer. No, sir. Question. Whose names did you give this morning connected with that murder? Answer. Isn't that all? Question. It happened to be a little more; because you only mentioned Tomlinson and Hunter and others. You did not recollect. Answer. Are you certain I didn't give more? Question. I am pretty certain. Answer. I think I gave his name this morning. Answer. I think I did. I might be mistaken. Question. How do you know, sir, that the party that made this raid on the treasury, of which you yourself are one, made that raid for the purpose of killing Rose? Answer. Just simply because it was the intention, and generally reported by men all around that that was the intention. Question. Did anybody announce the fact? Answer. It was announced by the whole party, as I told you this morning. That was the intention. Question. Where was it announced? Answer. Among us. Question. At what time in the raid? Answer. It was mentioned that night, I suppose, just before we came into town, and along from about 10 or 11 o'clock the thing was talked about. Question. Were you drawn up in line and that information communicated? Answer. No, sir; we were standing together in a bunch. Question. Who first spoke of it ? Answer. I cannot tell you; men were disguised. Question. Can you not tell us because you do not know the person? Answer. They were disguised. Question. Is that the reason you cannot tell who it was? Answer. That's the reason; and another reason, I was not thinking anything about it that night and didn't care anything about it. Question. Was that sentiment generally responded to by the Ku-Klux around? Did all seem to be willing? Answer. All seemed to be willing. Question. Did anybody object? Answer. Some objected, but didn't say so. I objected for one; but I couldn't say anything. Question. You did not say anything? Answer. I could not say anything. If I had I would have been swung. Question. Who notified you to be out that night? Answer. John Tomlinson and Rufe McLain. Question. Where did they tell you to rendezvous? Answer. About a mile from town, just above Uncle Bill Kerr's. Question. What did he say? Answer. There was to be a raid on the treasurer's office. Question. And kill Ed. Rose? Answer. And kill Ed. Rose. Question. When you got down there among them disguised you could not object you say? Answer. No, sir. Question. Because you were afraid to do it, and could not object? Answer. I got into it, and couldn't object to anything then. Question. Tomlinson told you before you went there that the object was to raid the treasury and kill Ed. Rose? Answer. But hold on. raid the treasury." He didn't tell that. He said, "Rendezvous at Bill Kerr's, and Question. And kill Rose? You said that. Is that so? Was anything said by Tomlinson ? Answer. There was after we got out there. Question. But at the notification? Answer. No, sir; there was nothing said then-only to meet there for the raid on the hotel. After we got there I don't know. The questions and answers were by men. I didn't know who in the thunder they were, because Tomlinson and others were there. Question. Did you know what they meant by a raid on the treasury? Answer. I asked some of the party. Question. Did you ask Tomlinson? Answer. I did not that night. Question. You did not feel any curiosity? Answer. I asked others I saw. I might have asked him. Question. Notice that I am speaking of the time Tomlinson invited you to meet them that night. Answer. I was notified by Tomlinson through another man. Question. Who? Answer. Through Rufe McLain. Question. Tomlinson did not notify you personally? Answer. He told Rufe McLain to tell me to rendezvous at Bill Kerr's, because there was to be a raid on Rose's hotel. Question. What do you mean by saying Tomlinson was the first man notified you ? Answer. He was. I was notified by him through another man. Question. By proxy? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. McLain then told you that you were to meet a mile from the town and make a raid on the treasury? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Did you ask the purpose? Answer. Yes, sir; I did after we got out there. Question. But here? Answer. No, sir; I never asked about it here. Question. You were perfectly willing to go? Answer. Yes, sir; what else could I do? You tie a man to a wagon and I guess he would be willing to go; there was no way to get out of it. Question. Was that the only way you were notified to meet in the country? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. What would have been the consequence if you had not been there? |