Mr. Rainey says if the machinery is started sooner will not the normal efficiency be reached sooner, while on the other hand the real contention is that a man starting work requires a certain time before he arrives at normal efficiency. Mr. EMERY. Yes, sir. There are two points there; one is that the machines are started and the human equation is not applied until there are 200 amperes applied. This illustrates the general condition in all mechanical industries, for the argument that is made in regard to that can be made in regard to any plant where mechanical and human labor are combined to produce the result. There is a point where the mechanical power and the human power join, and there you he arrives at normal efficiency. Mr. RAINEY. I do not know how that shows anything except that it takes some time to get that machine up to its maximum efficiency. Mr. EMERY. It shows the correspondence between the human and the mechanical labor. Mr. RAINEY. That is what I can not see. Mr. EMERY. These men are operating this machine. The power is being supplied from a reservoir of power, we will say, and as much power is turned on as the human element working with it can use, and that power is increased as fast as the men working it can use it. It runs all the presswork, the type composition, and the bookbinding. The CHAIRMAN. The idea, Mr. Rainey, to make it clear, is this: Suppose an electrical current operating on motors ran twenty small sets of burs grinding feed. If when the thing stops at noon those hoppers were full, and you turned on the current, from the moment the current was turned on there would be the same exhaustion of power that there would be at any other moment with those hoppers full of feed. The work they are required to do is there. Now, instead of being something mechanical like that, these are presses to be fed, lathes that are to be turned over, and something fed to them by human hands. The fact that so much current is not required for a given number of minutes shows that the human agency does not get into its swing for that number of minutes. There are not so many pieces of material being pushed under the lathe with the same force. That is a valuable thing to be put into the record, but really, is it contended anywhere that any physical agency starts at anything with its maximum power? The man starts off on a slower walk. So does the horse. The carpenter taking up his adz at 1 o'clock, never, to the observation of any eye, starts in to swing it with the confidence and force with which he swings it ten or twenty minutes afterwards. Is it not a universal fact, exposed to human observation anywhere and everywhere, that all physical agencies start in slowly, or comparatively slowly; that they do not start at the maximuni? Did anybody ever suppose that a man picking up a pitchfork to throw stuff on a wagon, throws as many forks the first minute as he does the twentieth or the twenty-fifth minute. There must be a beginning. Mr. EMERY. That is our belief fullv. Mr. Chairman, and it has come into this argument because of the reason which is very frequently advanced for disposing of the practical contention made as to the economic loss and the productive loss in an eight-hour day system, the theory being very frequently expressed that because in many forms of mechanical production, where machinery is so large a factor of production, the human element can probably be eliminated. It is contended, for instance, as you have in many high types of industry, the machine does so much work that a man is a mere supervisor or attender; it is claimed that the machine can start up and do as much work in eight hours as it could do in nine hours. That statement has been made here sometimes. In the second place, you will note from an examination of this question and from the experience you suggest, that wherever the production, mechanically speaking, is the result of careful coordination between the man and the machine, the action of the machine is modified by the action of the man, and it expresses the very thing to which you have called attention in human action, that it starts slowly and, just as a man, gains flexibility as it goes on. What we have called attention to has been for the purpose of showing what has been shown so much in this testimony, that where these great industries, representing investments of millions of dollars, their capacity to employ men and to use labor is dependent, of course, upon their ability to employ the men profitably. Mr. RAINEY. In other words, an eight-hour day would not mean that both machine and man work for eight hours at their maximum efficiency? Mr. EMERY. That the loss in the eight-hour day would be subject to every loss which exists in a nine-hour day. Mr. RAINEY. Or a ten-hour day. Mr. EMERY. Yes; or a ten-hour day. The CHAIRMAN. The larger the day the greater the percentage. Mr. EMERY. The greater the percentage of loss. Where large industries are already established their investments of capital, their prices in competition, are based upon a nine-hour day, and it is difficult to change all that; it can not be changed in a moment; it is an established thing, and it is very difficult to change it now under the capricious whims of an hour.. Mr. HASKINS. It ought not to require any argument in this day to satisfy a practical man, or a man who has ever done any work himself, that a man can not perform as much work in eight hours as he can in nine, because every man of common sense knows better. Mr. EMERY. This shows that a machine can not, either. Mr. HASKINS. I do not care about the machine. STATEMENT OF MR. GEORGE L. MARKLAND, JR., TREASURER AND BUSINESS MANAGER OF THE PHILADELPHIA GEAR WORKS, INCORPORATED. Mr. EMERY. Will you state your name and business occupation? Mr. MARKLAND. George L. Markland, jr., treasurer and business manager of the Philadelphia Gear Works, Incorporated. Mr. EMERY. Are you here in any representative capacity? Mr. MARKLAND. Representing the metal manufacturers of Philadelphia. Mr. EMERY. Will you state what the Metal Manufacturers' Association of Philadelphia is? Mr. MARKLAND. They comprise men and companies, corporations manufacturing machinery, such as lathes, gun carriages, milling machines, planers, general machine shop equipment, brass work, chandeliers, and so forth. Mr. EMERY. Are they large employers of labor? Mr. MARKLAND. Our association comprises about 18,000 employees. I do not recall just the number of companies in the association. Mr. EMERY. Are the members of this association, or many of them, frequent contractors with the Government for articles, materials, and supplies? Mr. MARKLAND. Oh, yes. Mr. EMERY. Can you state to the committee what the character of articles or materials or supplies usually manufactured for the Government is? Mr. MARKLAND. We supply the requirements for the battle ships. Mr. EMERY. Of what kind; what sort of things? Mr. MARKLAND. The equipment. Mr. EMERY. The equipment for battle ships? Mr. MARKLAND. Yes; the Cramp Company and the William Sellers Company, George V. Crescent; they supply gearing machinery and engines. Mr. EMERY. In that relation, then, they are subcontractors to contractors for ships? Mr. MARKLAND. Yes; and in some cases they contract direct with the navy-yard. Mr. EMERY. Have you familiarized yourself, Mr. Markland, with House bill 15651, now under consideration before this committee? Mr. MARKLAND. Termed the eight-hour bill, is it not? Mr. EMERY. Yes. Mr. MARKLAND. Yes, sir. Mr. EMERY. Will you state to the committee the conclusions which your association has formed and the practical difficulties which they, and you, as a practical man, would find in the operation of that act in its application to your particular industries? Mr. MARKLAND. We being subcontractors, of course, sometimes our own firm supply the Government direct, but other times we supply such firms as the Cramp Company, the New York Shipbuilding Company, and some of the arsenals for their contracts. We supply them with an order, furnishing our specialty, which is gears. Of course, the same thing would apply to other concerns in our association as subcontractors. We have in our plant a force of 40 men, not very many, but considerable when you take into consideration the fact that we are specialists. Mr. EMERY. You are specialists? Mr. MARKLAND. We are specialists; we make gears only for the transmission of power. Mr. EMERY. And you make them for the Government? Mr. MARKLAND. We have made them. Just recently we made a shipment to Washington for the Government, some thousand-odd pieces. Mr. EMERY. Are those things which can be bought in the open market? Mr. MARKLAND. Oh, no. 32796-08-43 Mr. EMERY. They are all made to specifications? Mr. MARKLAND. Yes; according to specifications. Mr. EMERY. That is true, is it, also of the other members of the association to which you have referred as occasionally or frequently contracting with the Government? Mr. MARKLAND. Mostly. There is a small percentage of machinery which is manufactured and not made especially for the Government, but that is a small percentage. Usually they have some specifications which require the building of the machinery separately. If we should undertake, for instance, to supply these gears such as we did recently to the Department, if we should have undertaken to put our men on eight hours, engaged in that particular contract, we would have had a part of the force engaged eight hours, either stopping or starting earlier. The result would have been, of course, the disruption of the plant. Of course, we run our engines all day. We would increase our C. P. H.-our cost per hour. We must run our men fifty-five hours per week in order to keep our costs within a reasonable figure, which is rated at 35 cents. Mr. EMERY. Per hour? Mr. MARKLAND. Per hour. In February we had the force so low that the cost per hour advanced to 643 cents. Of course, if a man's pay should be 35 cents, which is the average in our plant, that would bring you to a dollar an hour for work; that would be the cost for wages and the C. P. H., not including material, under the present conditions. Now, lop that off to eight hours and you have increased your cost about 25 per cent; you have increased your loss of power and you have increased your C. P. H.—that is, your cost per hourby reducing the number of hours a day running. It is a complicated matter of figures if you undertake to bring it down to actual figures, but the percentages are evident. Mr. EMERY. As a practical matter, though, does it spell loss or gain? Mr. MARKLAND. It spells loss to a great extent; if it became general, if it ever became a law, if the eight-hour law was a general law, that would not occur, but if we have to compete with other fellows who run any time, and if we break up our general running order, we are going to disrupt our plant; our men simply would not stay. Mr. EMERY. Let me ask you in passing, is it a fact that in your own factory and in the factories of a majority of the members of your association, and in fact in many of the greater mechanical industries of the country to-day, that the hour rather than the day is the unit of time on which costs are computed and wages computed? Mr. MARKLAND. The hour is the time. We are getting out of the habit of speaking of them as days; we are speaking of weeks and hours as the basis. Mr. EMERY. That is becoming more and more general in industries? Mr. MARKLAND. Oh, yes. Mr. EMERY. So that the earning power of the employer, as well as of the employee, under these conditions is being rated in terms of the hours which they can either buy or sell? Mr. MARKLAND. Yes. The employees are anxious to sell all the hours they can. Mr. EMERY. Has that been your experience? Mr. MARKLAND. Oh, yes. Mr. EMERY. Do you speak simply as an employer, or can you also speak as an employee? Mr. MARKLAND. On both sides. I am a machinist by trade. Mr. EMERY. You worked at the trade? Mr. MARKLAND. Oh, yes. Mr. EMERY. For how long? Mr. MARKLAND. Ten years-yes, probably twelve years. Mr. EMERY. Do you find among the skilled trades a general desire to secure overtime opportunities? Mr. MARKLAND. Oh, yes. Mr. EMERY. I want to ask you particularly, Mr. Markland, is that just as true of the very highest paid skilled labor as it is of other forms of labor? Mr. MARKLAND. Yes. Our tool makers, for instance; we have three; the chief tool maker we have to frequently ask to stay and do some work on tools for rolls. It is a new bar gotten out by a concern in New York, a new reenforced steel bar, and the other companies in the country have not been able to get it. In order to get the stuff out for emergency orders we have asked him to stay and do the work. "Gladly," he says; "glad to get the chance to get the money." Mr. EMERY. How much is his pay? Mr. MARKLAND. Thirty-eight cents an hour. Mr. EMERY. His normal working day? Mr. MARKLAND. Fifty-five hours; we run from 7 to 5.30, with a half hour at noon, and close at 12 o'clock Saturdays. We have done that for the last sixteen years. Mr. EMERY. In your experience, then, both as a journeyman mechanic and as an employer, you find the desire to secure overtime employment is, if anything, more general in highly skilled and highly paid labor than in the lower forms of labor? Mr. MARKLAND. Inasmuch as they have more intelligence, yes. Mr. MARKLAND. Oh, yes. Mr. EMERY. Will you make a statement, Mr. Markland, in behalf of yourself and the association you represent with respect to the practical effects of this bill as you see it on the industries you represent? Mr. MARKLAND. It would cause a readjustment, which would cause an advance in price to the Government in business from 25 to 30 per cent. Mr. EMERY. You mean it would cost the Government that to have the contractors accept their contracts on the terms proposed? Mr. MARKLAND. Yes; and then who will accept the contract? Who will bid on the work? We surely would not, because we could not afford to disrupt our plant. We would not bid to the New York Shipbuilding Company or to the other plants or to the Government direct. If they transmitted us an order we might accept it, and we might not; the chances are we would not if we had to cut our plant in parts, and run part of it eight hours, so that if we had to depend on that work for the running of our plant we would have to run the whole shop eight hours; that would mean constantly. If you are running a 50-horsepower engine and you have a force of 40 men, |