Mr. PAYSON. You mean in every field of purchase? That is your idea, that it would be brought about?

The CHAIRMAN. Eventually. The Government manufactures clothing very largely now in the arsenals.

Mr. PAYSON. Yes. May I interrupt you for a moment? Have you ever heard that asserted before in either committee, or ever heard that it was asserted in either committee? For the record will you state, Mr. Chairman, kindly, whether you have ever heard that view expressed of the intention of this legislation-expressed by any of the friends of the bill until to-day? I confess I never have.

The CHAIRMAN. I do not know whether it has gone into the record or not, but I have stated it in talking about the bill more than once. Mr. PAYSON. I have never heard it.

The CHAIRMAN. There have often been scraps of testimony put in, leading or pointing to that direction, as I recollect it. For instance, I have always regarded all that has been said about things being done in Government factories abroad as looking in that direction and bearing upon that. Some newspaper clippings were put into the record the other days of what has been done in Japan.

Mr. PAYSON. That is the instance of Japan building on its own hook one battle ship.

The CHAIRMAN. Do not understand that I am pretending to voice the views of anyone else. Nobody voicing the labor side of this bill has ever discussed those questions with me.

Mr. PAYSON. But, on the other hand, Mr. Chairman, you remember repeatedly, on being pressed as to the intentions on the part of the friends of this bill, my friend, Mr. Gompers, has repeatedly said that the intention of this legislation was to bring about an eight-hour day in every field of employment where the Government had contracts as to the subject-matter of the employment.

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Gompers can speak for himself. My understanding was that he was saying those things in a general advocacy of an eight-hour day, not attempting to point out what this bill

would do.

Mr. PAYSON. In that connection, Mr. Chairman, at this point let me call attention to an extract found on page 3 of the hearings before the House Committee on Labor in February and March, 1908, this Sixtieth Congress; a quotation from a colloquy between Mr. Gompers and myself back in 1902. This quotation is as follows (reads):

In response to a question asked by Judge Payson in 1902, and a similar question in 1904, Mr. Gompers made the intent and desire of the proponents of this legislation very clear by saying on the last occasion:

"We are endeavoring to secure the limitation of a day's work to eight hours. Where Government work enters into the operation of a plant, either in part or in whole, we expect that eight hours shall constitute a day's work by law and the limitation of a day's work.

"Mr. PAYSON. That is what I wanted you to say.

"Mr. GOMPERS. I am very glad, because I wanted to say it myself, and I want to emphasize it, if possible.

"We have been asked how far does this bill go? How far do you want it to go? If we are candid, and we desire to be, as to how far, we would answer until it reached every man, woman, and child who works in the United States. And I trust that statement will be broad enough and comprehensive enough to satisfy the opponents of the bill."

The CHAIRMAN. Right there, Judge: It is not for me to construe Mr. Gompers's language, especially when he is present; but I do not

think you can gather from that a determination, or a hope, even, that this bill would establish an eight-hour day generally throughout the country.

Mr. PAYSON. Not at all, but the entering wedge in that regard. The CHAIRMAN. There is nothing in the language I see that might not just as well mean that all the work done for the Government should be done on the eight-hour plan if the Government had to do it itself.

Mr. DAVENPORT. On page 6 of the hearings this year is a quotation by me from Mr. Gompers's testimony when he appeared before this committee in 1902, to be found on page 213 of the hearings before this committee at that time. Here it is (reads):

The other alternative is conceded to be the inevitable result, both by those who oppose the bill and those who favor it; and in that connection I want to read from the statement made by Mr. Gompers, who appeared before this committee in 1902, and it is to be found on page 213 of the hearings before this committee at that time, when Judge Payson stated, as he had previously stated, that it would be impossible for any plant to run a part of the time doing Government work for eight hours and other work for ten hours, and that the purpose of this bill was to compel every one of those concerns to go to the eight-hour basis. This is Mr. Gompers's statement:

"Judge Payson did me the honor, and did our movement the honor, to state candidly our position so far as this bill is concerned. That is what we hope to accomplish. We believe exactly what some of the employers who appeared before this committee and other committees upon the subject say. We believe it will not be long when the eight-hour law shall pass, and I trust it may pass. If this bill shall become a law, it will not long be possible to operate one branch of a plant on the eight-hour basis and another upon the ten-hour basis."

The CHAIRMAN. I do not think that statement necessarily implies the construction given to it. Others can judge as well as I can in that regard, and Mr. Gompers can speak for himself.

Following are War Department exhibits filed by Mr. Payson.

SPECIFICATIONS FOR RIDING OR WAGON SADDLE.

[Approved July 17, 1907.1

TREE.

To conform in measurement and shape to the drawing herewith. The drawing represents a saddle with a 11-inch seat. For saddles of other size seats the necessary changes in measurements will be proportional.

Bars. To be made of well-seasoned elm or gum, symmetrically shaped.

Cantle. To be made in one piece of well-seasoned beech, sawed with the grain. Fork. To be made of two pieces of well-seasoned sycamore, the parts to be securely joined with a tongue of sycamore.

Angle iron. To be pressed from 18-gauge (Brown & Sharpe gauge) soft black steel. Stirrup loops.-To be made of malleable iron and to conform in measurement and shape to the drawing mentioned.

Horn.-To be of malleable iron, size and shape as shown in drawings, and known as the Omaha repair horn, or equal. Head to be made of poplar secured with two -inch No. 7 screws.

Assembling. Fork and cantle to be secured to bars with cement-coated wire nails; angle iron to be riveted securely to cantle and bars with six rivets, two in cantle and two in each bar; stirrup loops to be attached to bars with a flat loop of 18-gauge (Brown & Sharpe gauge) galvanized soft steel, secured with three rivets; horn to be secured to fork with two 1-inch No. 7 screws at the base and two 14-inch No. 12 screws through the prong. All parts to be nicely finished, the wood parts to be well rubbed with raw linseed oil.

Covering. To be the best No. 1 raw beef hide, sewed with thongs of the same material.

The above constitutes the finished tree.

The finished tree to be covered with the best russet collar leather; the edge on cantle to be reenforced with an extra welt. To be stitched with four-cord No. 3 yellow shoe thread well waxed with yellow wax, eight stitches to the inch.

STRAPS AND MISCELLANEOUS PARTS.

The accompanying illustration shows the relative positions of the straps and parts, the manner and place of attaching and assembling same. All leather parts to be

made of No. 1 russet leather unless otherwise stated.

All thread to be best four-cord No. 3 yellow shoe thread well waxed with yellow wax. All stitching to be not less than six stitches nor more than eight to the inch. Adjustable quarter straps (No. 1).—To be 14 inches wide, secured in front to bars and forks with seven 3-inch No. 8 brass screws and in rear to bars with two 3-inch No. 8 brass screws; to angle iron with three No. 8 copper rivets. Laps to be 3 inches, riveted with No. 10 copper rivets and sewed with two rows of stitching. Straps to be of such a length and so adjusted that the top of quarter strap ring will be 7 inches directly below bars, measured from a point on bars at center of stirrup loop.

Stirrup straps (No. 2).-To be 5 feet long, 14 inches wide, made up with a 14-inch No. 52 XX black japan roller buckle, secured with a 3-inch lap, three rows of stitching.

Coat straps (No. 3).-To be five in number, three passing through strap holes in and footman loops on the cantle, two passing through footman loops on bars in front of fork. To be 3 feet long, inch wide, to be made up with a 3-inch solid military center bar brass buckle, secured with a 2-inch lap, two rows of stitching. To have at a point on underside of strap 10 inches from buckle end a leather stop, secured with a No. 10 copper rivet.

Quarter strap rings (No. 4).-To be a 3-inch No. 1 (Brown & Sharpe gauge), japanned, malleable breeching ring.

Quarter strap ring safe (No. 5).-To be two-ply 6 by 5 inch circle corners; stitching, eight stitches to the inch. To be attached to quarter strap ring by two chapes securely riveted to safe with No. 10 copper rivet.

Cincha strap (No. 6).-To be the best latigo leather, 4 feet 6 inches long, 14 inches wide, secured to quarter strap ring with a 2-inch lap, three rows of stitching.

Sweat leathers (No. 7).—To be 20 inches long over all, 94 inches wide at the widest part; to have a exible stirrup shield 5 inches in length; shape to be as shown in illustration. To have top, bottom, and center loops of 11-inch leather, for stirrup straps to pass through; these loops to be secured with No. 10 copper rivets with two rows of stitching at each rivet.

Cincha (No. 10).-Cincha ring (No. 8); cincha ring safe (No. 9). To be 24 inches long, out to out of rings. To have twenty-four strands of the best hard hair; to have three crossbars: cincha rings to be 4-inch No. 0 (Brown & Sharpe gauge), japanned, malleable, breeching rings. The cincha ring safe, which is 6 inches in diameter, is to be attached to rings with a leather covering, as shown in illustration.

Stirrup (No. 11). To be 44-inch extra heavy, solid bent Texas stirrups, made of the best hickory and oiled; to have two bolts and plates; bar to be leather covered. Cantle ovals (No. 12). To be made of 20 gauge (Brown & Sharpe gauge), sheet brass, longest diameter 13 inches, shortest diameter 1 inch: to have strap holes # by inch. To be six in number, secured as facings to strap holes in cantles, with inch brass brads.

Footman loops (No. 13). To be of fine solid brass, low pattern, size inch. To be six in number, secured by 3-inch brass screws, as follows: Two on bars at the thickest part in front of quarter straps passing over fork; two on back of cantle just below cantle ovals of outside strap holes; two on bars in rear of cantle, placed on quarter straps 24 inches from lower edge of bar, measurement to be made along quarter strap to center of footman loop.

Rings (No. 14).-To be -inch, medium weight, solid brass, to be four in number, placed in footman loops on cantle and footman loops on bars in front of forks.

GENERAL PROVISIONS.

All material to be of the best quality: workmanship to be first-class in every respect. The saddles will be subject to careful inspection, both during manufacture and in the finished state, by an inspector of the Quartermaster's Department, officer, or agent of that Department. To be like or equal to the sealed standard sample in all respects. Q. M. G. O., July 17, 1907.

Approved:

J. B. ALESHIRE, Quartermaster-General, U. S. A.