Mr. HAYDEN. Assume that she is launched; now describe what is the process of installing her main belt or water line armor belt, and what necessity there is for prosecuting that work more expeditiously than you could do on the eight-hour basis.

Mr. MULL. It is a known fact that a ship will only contain so much work without going down in the water, and we have got to launch a ship in such a condition that we can put her armor belt on before that period comes.

Mr. HAYDEN. That is, the armor shell?

Mr. MULL. The armor plate must be above the water line. Therefore we have got to restrict ourselves in putting internal weights, machinery, and such like, in the ship, until after she is launched to enable us to put on the armor belt. Inasmuch as we have restricted the operations up to the date of launching, then we work overtime in order to make good those parts that we have retarded the work on, to accommodate the work of putting the armor plate on. That is a very serious thing. I do not see how we could ever catch up lost time if we were limited to eight hours.

Mr. HAYDEN. That is, no matter how expeditious you may be in other respects, if your ship is launched, you must rush forward the work of installing her main belt as rapidly as possible; otherwise, you delay the installation of her engines and other internal armor and all other parts of the ship?

Mr. MULL. Absolutely; that is correct.

Mr. NICHOLLS. What do I understand to be the length of the work day in your yard?

Mr. MULL. Ten and one-quarter hours.

Mr. NICHOLLS. You say, I think, that there is considerable overtime?

Mr. MULL. Oh, yes.

Mr. NICHOLLS. How late in the evening do they work usually? Mr. MULL. That depends upon where the work is done. On ships we never work overtime until after they are launched. In our shops we work overtime, for instance, on our turret machinery; that will be a night and day job. I will cite a case of the South Carolina. There is an entirely new type of turret, four 12-inch going into the ship. We have only one boring mill in the establishment that will handle those tracks. It will take that boring mill night and day until that ship is completed. Then I do not think we can have those turret tracks done by the contract time, and shall have to ask for an extension.

Mr. NICHOLLS. How many shifts do you have working?

Mr. MULL. We have one shift.

Mr. NICHOLLS. The same men working on?

Mr. MULL. When they work overtime, on the character of work; it is necessary work.

Mr. NICHOLLS. In other words, where you say they work night and day?

Mr. MULL. In the roughing out we have two shifts; they work at twelve-hour shifts.

Mr. NICHOLLS. That would be a case where they work night and day?

Mr. MULL. Yes; they would work night and day.

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Mr. HAYDEN. Your regular hours are governed by the temperature, I assume, to some extent?

Mr. MULL. Well, in summer time, of course, it is necessary in the very hot weather to abandon work in the middle of the day on ship construction; that is, on the stocks. We have a good many cases of heat prostration and sunstroke, so we induce the men to come in early in the morning and stop, and then resume in the afternoon and work late.

Mr. NICHOLLS. Are they willing to do that?

Mr. MULL. Perfectly willing; that is to their interest to do that. Mr. NICHOLLS. Could you work two shifts of men eight hours each on your work?

Mr. MULL. You could not do that very well; the length of the day would not permit that the daylight would not serve.

Mr. HAYDEN. There would not be sixteen hours?

Mr. MULL. We are in the farmer condition when it comes to that. Mr. HAYDEN. Just amplify your illustration.

Mr. MULL. Simply that you do not have sixteen hours of daylight. Mr. HAYDEN. There is certain work that must be done by daylight? Mr. MULL. Absolutely.

Mr. DREW. Could you find one man who would work a shift of eight hours and another who would work a second shift of four hours? Mr. MULL. I think that is doubtful.

Mr. HAYDEN. You could not find men who would be willing to work four hours for four hours' pay?

Mr. MULL. We could find men who were willing to work twelve hours rather than four.

Mr. PAYSON. I suppose they would work four hours for twelve hours' pay?

Mr. MULL. Oh, certainly.

Mr. HAYDEN. And I suppose you could find a receiver in bankruptcy?

Mr. MULL. That goes without saying.

Mr. HAYDEN. Mr. Mull, what processes, if any, in your company on Government work, or work under contract with the Government, are necessarily continuous, requiring uncertain lengths of days' work? Mr. MULL. Well, there is boring the large cylinders; that is an operation that we have got to take advantage of. A man starts to finish a cut in one of those big cylinders; he stays there until he finishes. It would be impracticable to stop the machine or to put a man there

to relieve.

Mr. HAYDEN. Why is that?

Mr. MULL. Because a new man would not know the machine, or know the condition of the machine.

Mr. HAYDEN. Suppose you put another man in his place?

Mr. MULL. I do not think he would be sufficiently well posted with the conditions up to that time to successfully carry it out, because as the tool is planing off, you need a man who knows just what to do to terminate that cut just as it began.

Mr. HAYDEN. What kind of cylinders do you refer to?

Mr. MULL. Steam cylinders for the main engines. We have them there 106 inches in diameter and 13-foot length.

Mr. NICHOLLS. How long does it take to bore them out, Mr. Mull?

Mr. MULL. That depends entirely upon circumstances.
Mr. NICHOLLS. Usually what is the length of time?

Mr. MULL. Well, it took this particular cylinder I am talking about about eighteen hours.

Mr. HAYDEN. Did they finish that without a shift?

Mr. MULL. Without a shift.

Mr. HAYDEN. Now, what was done; a man performs eighteen hours of work; how long was he off?

Mr. MULL. In this particular case that man got his straight time for ten hours, and we paid him double time for the balance of the eight hours.

Mr. NICHOLLS. Did he not eat anything in the meantime?

Mr. MULL. He certainly did. I might say this, that we have a café there, serve a lunch if there is special work going on; we see to it that our men are well provided for.

Mr. NICHOLLS. Does the man go on boring while he is lunching? Mr. MULL. He does not leave the machine; it is carried to him." Mr. NICHOLLS. His machine continues to go?

Mr. MULL. Sure.

Mr. NICHOLLS. Does he use any hand tool in the work itself?
Mr. MULL. During the process of boring?

Mr. NICHOLLS. Yes.

Mr. MULL. He does to the extent, if the tool is bearing up a little and we think the cylinder is going to come out a little shy, he attempts to draw the tool down; that is the only hand tool he uses.

Mr. NICHOLLS. It is all done practically by the machine?

Mr. MULL. It depends upon the mechanical ability of the man what sort of a job it is going to produce.

Mr. NICHOLLS. Would not another man, who is used to the same work, be fully as well qualified to continue the machine as the man who is already at it?

Mr. MULL. I do not think there are many men used to working that sized tool.

Mr. NICHOLLS. I say a man who is used to running one?

Mr. MULL. We have the shop there, and we can not take a man from one tool to another and put him on it. Any practical man will know that is impracticable. A man must learn his tool just as much as anything else.

Mr. NICHOLLS. I agree; but have you only one man in the shop who does that kind of work; I understood you built several ships at the same time?

Mr. MULL. Oh, we do not have many boring mills that take that sized cylinder, and we have but one man working that mill.

Mr. NICHOLLS. But do you have only one man in your shop who does run that kind of a mill?

Mr. MULL. Oh, we have many mills, but not that take such cylinders as I am speaking of. We have men who are specialists; we do not wish to trust to everybody the boring out of a cylinder and spoiling some work that would throw us back six months. We have this good job and give that to a man with an explicit judgment who knows how to terminate the work correctly.

Mr. NICHOLLS. How many men have you of that class in your yard? Mr. MULL. I, for one, and the man who runs the tool for another. I guess we could muster up sufficient to carry on our work.

Mr. NICHOLLS. How many, I say, have you?

Mr. MULL. We could muster up a half a dozen, probably, but we would want them to have some experience on the tool.

Mr. HAYDEN. That is, he must know his tool.

Mr. MULL. Yes.

Mr. HAYDEN. That, is, he must know how it works.

Mr. MULL. Yes; as a jockey knows his horse.

Mr. NICHOLLS. Can a man driving this machine, one of those men in the same class more than another, know what effect the boring of the cylinder farther on is going to have on the tool-one more than another?

Mr. MULL. Yes.

Mr. NICHOLLS. How can they tell?

Mr. MULL. A matter of experience with the men.

Some men

have more experience than others; are quicker than others.
Mr. NICHOLLS. I am speaking of men who are equal.
Mr. MULL. Men are not equal, as those things go.

Mr. NICHOLLS. But you trust the same class of work, do you not, to more than one man in that class at various times?

Mr. MULL. Of course; but we know that the man is running that tool who can produce the work. I am speaking now of one tool. We have several boring mills, which bore several sizes of cylinders, and we measure the cylinders according to the ability of the man running the tool.

Mr. NICHOLLS. But, as I understand, you say you could scare up about a half a dozen men who run the same kind of a mill.

Mr. MULL. Similar, but smaller.

Mr. NICHOLLS. And they would be practically equal, in as far as their ability to run a bore in a cylinder?

Mr. MULL. Not of all sizes; no.

Mr. NICHOLLS. Have you only one man for each size?

Mr. MULL. We never employ more than one man to run a tool; therefore, we would have but one man on the tool.

Mr. NICHOLLS. Suppose that that man was sick for a day; is the battle ship held up until he gets well?

Mr. MULL. I have seen instances where men have been sick and it has paid us well not to push the tool-not to proceed with the work; because if a man is being educated on certain lines of work it is impossible for another man to take that up and give us an assurance that he will not spoil the work.

Mr. HAYDEN. Is not that summed up by this, Mr. Mull, that the man is required to work with his mind rather than with his hands, and is more than a machine-he is a man?

Mr. MULL. Of course it is the personality of the man rather than of the machine.

Mr. NICHOLLS. Is not the machine gauged to bore a hole of a certain specific diameter in the cylinder; must it not conform exactly to a certain diameter through the cylinder?

Mr. MULL. No.

Mr. NICHOLLS. Do not your specifications call for a certain sized cylinder?

Mr. MULL. Yes.

Mr. NICHOLLS. Then how do you bring that size about except by boring?

Mr. MULL. Accurately, we do not; it is not within the province of man to do it either.

Mr. NICHOLLS. You are going into the one-millionth part of an inch.

Mr. MULL. That is what I am talking about.

Mr. NICHOLLS. But for practical purposes, when you say you will cut a 10-foot cylinder you will cut a 10-foot cylinder without, at least, an inch difference?

Mr. MULL. All right. Let me tell you, right in the specification of the United States Government 'for machinery, the turret-turning gear, we are allowed three one-thousandths of an inch; that is on the

turret.

Mr. NICHOLLS. How about the cylinders?

Mr. MULL. The cylinders, they know too much to specify; they know we can not attain it.

Mr. NICHOLLS. Do they not specify exactly?

Mr. MULL. They do. They will say a cylinder 100 inches. We get it 100 inches if we can. If the cut does not prove successful, or if the cylinder is bolted in such a way that there is a strain set up by the clamping effect, and we lessen the bolting, something does not prove just right and does not pass the inspector, and we go over it again.

Mr. NICHOLLS. Exactly; but in introducing this boring apparatus it is gauged so that, to all intents and purposes, it will bore a 100-inch cylinder if that is your specification?

Mr. MULL. You mean to convey to me this point: That when you start the tool at a certain measurement it will terminate that same measurement and requires no attention from the man?

Mr. NICHOLLS. No; I understood you to say that the cutters have to be renewed or driven in to make up for the wearing caused by cutting out the cylinder.

Mr. MULL. That is what I said, but there is not one man out of one hundred who has the experience to do that properly. It must be a man who has taken the rough cut out and taken the semifinish cuts in order to have that judgment in order to know just exactly what to do.

Mr. NICHOLLS. Suppose you have more than one man who does work of that same class, identically the same, why is it that he may not take up the work and continue the machine that is boring and finish it up?

Mr. MULL. Simply because that man has not had the previous experience on that particular job. Had that man started the job in its very conception, he then, perhaps, would have the same experience, but you can not take a man and rush right in on a job of that kind and finish it and expect to get good results.

Mr. NICHOLLS. Are you not required to furnish a cylinder of a certain diameter, steel of a certain quality, by the Government? Mr. MULL. We generally make ours out of cast iron.

Mr. NICHOLLS. Out of cast iron?

Mr. MULL. Yes, sir. It has to be of a certain chemical consistency to bring it to meet the Government requirements.

Mr. NICHOLLS. And he could vouch it would be that in each case? Mr. MULL. Yes; that is our aim.