Imágenes de páginas
PDF
EPUB

Mr. MARTIN. With regard to this point, I don't think that it is the responsibility of the Riggs National Bank or any other private enterprise business to see that their applicants are educated well enough to pass a simple test for employment.

I think that is a job for our educational institutions and I don't believe it directly concerns the witnesses this morning because I think that is primarily a problem for the schools. They get these people from the employment agencies and they come out of our school systems here in the District. I don't think it is their fault if they don't come up to an average grade in these tests, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. ROOSEVELT. Well, the gentleman is certainly entitled to his opinion.

I certainly disagree on the basis that I think a national banking institution serving the public is as close to a public utility as you can find. I think it has a civic duty to attack a problem of this kind.

If the gentleman does not agree, that is his privilege, of course, but I would say to the gentleman that there are precedents under which the Federal Government has made it very clear that in some areas certain policies in the public interest must be carried out, and the financial institutions have very great help from the Government. They get, for instance, a guarantee of their deposits which unquestionably helps them in doing their business. They are involved with governmental aids.

It seems to me that if they don't want governmental interference in this area, they have to do something a little bit more than just a normal slow process which has produced a problem for them. I am not saying they have not said that the school did not produce qualified personnel, but what they said was that most of the qualified personnel were going to the Federal Government.

Well, what I simply say is I think it is up to the bank to make sure that the Negro community does understand it does not have to go to the Federal Government, that it can also go to the financial community.

I yield to my colleague.

Mr. PUCINSKI. Mr. Chairman, that was a very interesting colloquy between you and the gentleman from Nebraska.

I would like to ask Mr. Stearns if you are getting such a high reject rate among the Negro students who take your aptitude tests, and knowing that the large percentage of the school population in the District is Negro, I wonder, Mr. Stearns, if you could tell us what has the Riggs Bank done as a participant in this community with a social conscience to impress upon the governing bodies and governing authorities the need to improve the school system in the District.

I will agree with Mr. Martin that it is not your responsibility in the first instance obviously to go out and train people; perhaps it is not; but I do think that, as a responsible institution in this community, when it pays taxes and draws benefits that you do have a responsibility. I am sure that you discharge this responsibility in many civic areas. I was wondering, Mr. Stearns, whether or not the bank has done anything toward improving the school structure so that a larger number of Negro students qualify for these aptitude

tests.

Now, I said the other day that the test at Amidon School clearly establishes beyond any doubt today that the potential of intellectual

capacity is about the same in the Negro child as it is in the white child. The Amidon example proves it. I think 60 percent of the school population in Amidon are children from Negro families and many of them from poor, economically substandard families, people who live in the public housing projects out there, and yet 94 percent of the children in that school scored above the national average in their aptitude tests.

So we see here concrete proof that the potential is there.

Now, coming to the question, has the Riggs Bank done anything to persuade the District Committee to give the schools of this area more money so that they could produce the kind of people that your bank will need in the future?

Mr. STEARNS. I can't say we have.

Can you Mr. McCormack?

Mr. McCORMACK. No, and I think it is quite understandable. Try as you will, the individual voice is a little difficult to be heard, and a little difficult to get response to.

Mr. PUCINSKI. Mr. McCormack, the voice of the Riggs Bank is not an individual voice. I think you will have to agree on that.

Mr. ROOSEVELT. And not a little voice.

Mr. McCORMACK. We had some recent experiences that you gentlemen perhaps have read about in the press which lead us to believe that our influence is not so effective.

Mr. STEARNS. It was not so loud in the merger.

Mr. PUCINSKI. You might want to challenge me on that statement. Mr. McCORMACK. That is entirely irrelevant to this.

I might point out to the chairman that bankers are not just created by the schools. We do have intensive educational programs besides on the job and certainly in Mr. Stearns' statement there was no reflection there about the failure of members of the Negro race who applied for positions to pass tests that are part and parcel of the natural abilities that somebody should have to handle figures and handle accounts.

We say that we are more or less in an unfortunate position by reason of the fact that we have a very serious competitor or, let's say, a competitor that is very hard to compete with in a labor market.

I think you gentlemen know in going back to your home States and around the country that Uncle Sam does here in the city of Washington set a salary pattern.

Mr. PUCINSKI. Mr. McCormack, on that point, if you will be good enough to yield: How many employees do you have in the Riggs Bank? Mr. McCORMACK. I defer to Mr. Stearns.

Mr. STEARNS. 1,100 roundly.

Mr. PUCINSKI. What percentage of those would you think are Negro.?

Incidentally, I will get to the point: It is not a significant point, but what percentage?

Mr. STEARNS. Let's say 1,100, and what we are talking about is clerical now.

Mr. PUCINSKI. 1,100 employees.

How many of these are Negro, at all levels; clerical, watchmen or janitors, vice presidents?

Mr. STEARNS. 120.

Mr. PUCINSKI. 120.

Mr. STEARNS. Yes.

Mr. PUCINSKI. Do any of the Negro employees in your bank have a position other than clerical? Do any of these people have any form of supervisory positions? Foreman, shop steward-no; you would not have those. But manager or whatever you call them? Do any of these people have a supervisory position?

Mr. STEARNS. We do have an assistant to the superintendent of buildings who is a Negro.

Mr. PUCINSKI. Did he come up by the ranks of seniority or was this an appointed position?

Mr. STEARNS. Oh, no. Clyde has been with us for many years. Mr. McCORMACK. He came up through the ranks; promoted.

Mr. STEARNS. Now, of these clerical, bookkeeping, proof desk and that sort of thing, we do have some of the senior Negroes who have progressed to assistant supervisors. They are doing pretty important work and, frankly, I will say they are doing it very well.

Mr. PUCINSKI. In other words, Mr. Stearns, I can conclude from your statement that a youngster thinking about where to get a job looks at the Riggs Bank and says, No. 1, if he has got the qualifications, he has the same opportunity as anybody else to get the job in the first instance; No. 2, he can move up the ladder commensurate with his seniority and ability and everything else. Is this true? Is this the atmosphere that prevails in regards to the Riggs Bank?

Mr. STEARNS. It is; definitely. We are sincere about it. You will recall in my statement I said that our program started in 1961 and that it takes a little time for an employee to work his way up, but on a merit basis Negro employees are progressing salarywise and jobwise the same as any other employee.

Mr. PUCINSKI. If this is the situation, I have said many times I am not impressed when I walk into a factory and they show me 4 or 5 Negroes or 10 or 20 Negroes or 50 to 100 Negroes and say, well, you see we are a nondiscriminatory shop. This kind of token hiring to satisfy some public urge is not impressive.

I think that the solution here is whether or not a manufacturer, an employer creates a sincere atmosphere which assures the job applicant whether he is Negro, Puerto Rican, Mexican, whether he is a Catholic, Protestant or Jew, whether he is Italian, Pole, Scandinavian, Irish, what have you-if the applicant has reason to believe that this shop or this bank or this institution is going to give him an opportunity to utilize all of his qualifications and explore them to the highest, this is what I think we are shooting for rather than numerical statistics, and percentages.

You might wind up with an 80 percent Negro employment force. In the District, with the condition prevailing here, if they are qualified, this may be true, and that is why I am wondering: You say you are satisfied that you have created that sort of atmosphere? Mr. STEARNS. I sincerely say so.

Mr. PUCINSKI. If you have done that, you are to be congratulated. Mr. STEARNS. You agree with that statement, don't you?

Mr. McCORMACK. Absolutely.

Mr. ROOSEVELT. Mr. Hawkins.

Mr. HAWKINS. Out of this approximately 120 Negroes, Mr. Stearns, with the bank today, what is the highest position occupied by one of those?

Mr. STEARNS. Well, I would say probably if we are talking moneywise, the assistant to the superintendent of buildings, but if we are talking about straight clerical, it would be a utility bookkeeper in our bookkeeping department, one who can move from ledger to ledger, help train new ones.

In our proof department, it would be basically the same thing, doing the most senior sort of work in that department and helping train new employees and so forth.

Mr. HAWKINS. Would you say that most of these are messengers or laborers and so forth of the 120?

Mr. STEARNS. Yes. Yes; the majority of them are messengers, chauffers, parking lot attendants, in the maintenance.

Mr. HAWKINS. How many would be clerical.

Mr. STEARNS. We have roundly 20 actual clerical now.

Mr. ROOSEVELT. Would my colleague yield?

Mr. HAWKINS. Yes.

[blocks in formation]

Mr. ROOSEVELT. Not a single Negro teller?

Mr. STEARNS. No; not yet. We will. As we pointed out, we start them in beginning positions and upgrade them to the bookkeeping department and then we train them as tellers. When we have a vacancy for a teller, we don't go out and hire somebody and train them to be a teller; we put them through the beginning end of it so when they are tellers I think they are good ones. That is the way we came along and I think it is the proper way to do it.

I say no; not yet, but there will be.

Mr. HAWKINS. The assistant superintendent of buildings is, then, in terms of the amount of money received, the highest ranking employee among the Negro group; is that right?

Mr. STEARNS. I would say that is correct, sir.

Mr. HAWKINS. How long has he been with the company?
Mr. STEARNS. How long would you say? Fifteen years?
Mr. McCORMACK. At least, I would say.

Mr. HAWKINS. At least 15?

Mr. STEARNS. Yes.

Mr. HAWKINS. Then, how long has he been an assistant superintendent?

Mr. STEARNS. My guess would be 3 or 4. He has always been a responsible man you could call upon but he has taken over pretty good duties.

Mr. HAWKINS. He is not likely to become a teller, then, is he? Mr. STEARNS. No; he will not be.

Mr. HAWKINS. Approximately how many employees have you employed since 1961, rough figures, not specific?

Mr. STEARNS. I would say perhaps 250, maybe.

Mr. HAWKINS. 250.

Do you have any idea how many Negroes were employed since 1961?

Mr. STEARNS. Twenty.

Mr. HAWKINS. About 20.

Mr. McCORMACK. Including the Negro clerical personnel, as contrasted with other Negro personnel. Including the turnover among Negro clerical personnel, the number would be considerably greater than 20.

Mr. STEARNS. No. Just in the clerical. Not including the other category.

Mr. HAWKINS. All of these are in the clerical capacity, aren't they? Mr. MCCORMACK. May I interject?

I think our actual number in clerical would be in excess of 20 because we have had some mortality.

Mr. STEARNS. You are right. I was giving the number we have now. We have had some turnover in there, so the number that we actually have employed would be more than 20 but I cannot give you the figure of the turnover.

Mr. McCormack is right.

Mr. HAWKINS. Thank you.

Mr. MARTIN. I think it is well to point out, Mr. Chairman, that the Riggs National Bank inaugurated this policy in July 1961 in starting these people in at the bottom of the ladder, and, as the two witnesses have said, that is the way they started in the bank; that it is only natural to assume that in 2 years' time you are not going to have any executive officers in the bank because it takes a little bit longer to come up the ladder and deserve the promotion. So, I think it is well to keep that fact in mind in comparing these figures and statistics that we have had in regard to percentage of employees who are Negroes.

I would like to ask you one question in regard to the bill, itself. All of our witnesses so far, although I missed some of the session so perhaps this might not be entirely correct, have testified in regard to discrimination in regard to the Negroes. But the bill states this:

The Congress hereby finds that, despite the continued progress, the Nation's practice of discrimination in employment against properly qualified persons because of their race, religion, color, national origin, ancestry, or age is contrary to American principles

and so on.

Now, there are several categories in regard to that which are covered in here, in addition to Negroes, but, yet, all of our testimony has been along this one line.

Do you have any recommendations or thoughts in regard to these other qualifications or other things that are set forth in this bill here, for instance, in regard to age, national origin, and so on?

Do you have any comment on that?

Mr. STEARNS. Not really.

I will say this: That, as far as age goes, this is just an observation, in some categories of work the older person does not do as well as the youngster. I am speaking of bookkeeping machines, the dexterity of the hands and that sort of thing. I won't say they cannot do an acceptable job but they don't do it as well.

Mr. MARTIN. Is it necessary to itemize this in legislation that is going to affect the whole country, all of these various categories, because so far we have only concentrated on one issue and it has been the Negro problem.

« AnteriorContinuar »