Mr. ROOSEVELT. The Chair is going to have to bring this to an end. I would just say to you, Mr. Latimore, that the committee will go into this matter. We will give Mr. O'Donoghue of the plumbers union the first chance to be heard at 2 o'clock this afternoon when the subcommittee will reconvene, to be followed by the other witnesses we have previously scheduled for the committee, local 26 of the International Brotherhood of the Electric Workers, Mr. Beavers, Negro American Labor Council, and Mr. Linton Collins, counsel, District Board of Trade, and Mr. Zahn, vice president of the C. & P. Telephone Co.

We will do everything we can to ascertain what can be done to resolve this matter in the interest of eliminating the racial issue which seems to be involved.

Mr. LATIMORE. Thank you very much.

Mr. ROOSEVELT. The committee will stand adjourned until 2 o'clock this afternoon..

(Whereupon, at 12:10 p.m., the hearing was recessed to reconvene at 2 p.m. of the same day, Friday, May 24, 1963.)

AFTER RECESS

(The general subcommittee reconvened at 2 p.m., Hon. James Roosevelt, chairman of the subcommittee, presiding.)

Mr. ROOSEVELT. The subcommittee will be in order, please. The committee, in view of the testimony this morning concerning local No. 5, has invited Mr. O'Donoghue, representing local No. 5. If you have a statement at this time we would like to have you make

it.

STATEMENT OF PATRICK O'DONOGHUE, ATTORNEY AT LAW, WASHINGTON, D.C., REPRESENTING PLUMBERS LOCAL UNION NO. 5

Mr. O'DONOGHUE. At the outset, I want to state that my name is Patrick O'Donoghue. I am an attorney. My address is 1912 Sunderland Place NW., Washington, D.C. I am the attorney representing

Plumbers Local Union No. 5.

I want to thank the committee for this opportunity of appearing. We did not learn until very late last night that Mr. Latimore was going to appear. We do not have a prepared statement. I would like the opportunity at a later date to submit a written statement, but I would like to take a brief time to state for the record what is the position of Plumbers Local No. 5 in view of the testimony of Mr. Latimore. Mr. Chairman, Plumbers Local No. 5 is a labor organization, a local union, with territorial jurisdiction in the District of Columbia area. It is chartered by an international union, the United Association of Plumbers & Pipefitters of the United States and Canada.

To put this dispute in proper perspective, we have to start off some years ago when the AFL chartered the United Association and gave it exclusive jurisdiction over the plumbing and pipefitting industry. A dispute developed years ago between the laborers and the plumbers.

Every building has in its waterlines, storm sewerlines, sanitary sewerlines. These lines run from the building out to a street where

they connect into the main sewers.

You will have a water sewer, you

may have a storm sewer, or a sanitary storm sewer. The plumbers have historically and traditionally claimed the right to perform any work of the installation of these pipelines both that run from the building to the street and in the street.

A dispute developed with the laborers over the right to do this work. În 1941 the plumbers union and the laborers union, the international union entered into an agreement which is known in the industry as the 1941 agreement. Under that agreement, the plumbers who had jurisdiction by the AFL over all pipework wherever located gave to the laborers the installation of nonmetallic pipe in the street. These lines are of two types. They are nonmetallic line, concrete or terra cotta, or metallic.

This 1941 agreement gave the laborers the nonmetallic pipe in the street. The plumbers were to have all other pipework within the property line both metallic and nonmetallic, and they were also to have all metallic pipe in the street.

Subsequent to the 1941 agreement, a dispute arose between the Plumbers International and Laborers International as to the meaning of this agreement. The Building Trades Department of the AFL appointed a national referee to render a nationwide decision on this dispute. That referee affirmed the position of the plumbers and held that all work within the property line, all pipework was the work of UA and all nonmetallic pipeline in the street was the work of the laborers.

When I use the phrase "UA," that is the common term that the plumbers union is known in the construction industry. It is the United Association,

Mr. ROOSEVELT. Can you give the committee a copy of that opinion? Mr. O'DONOGHUE. Yes; I will furnish a copy of the 1941 agreement, the Hutchison decision, and also what is referred to in the trade as the green book. It is the bible of all the building trades unions and contractors that contains various jurisdictional decisions, jurisdictional awards by the national joint board, national referees, et cetera.

Subsequent to the Hutchison decision, the national decision, that is, the decision that had application throughout the United States, the two business agents in this area, the business agent of the Laborers District Council and the business agent of the plumbers local union in 1949 got together and made an oral agreement modifying the Hutchison decision.

Under that oral agreement, the plumbers agreed that the laborers could do all work in the street both metallic and nonmetallic. (Copy of agreement and dispute follow:)

MEMORANDUM OF AGREEMENT BETWEEN THE UNITED ASSOCIATION OF JOURNEYMAN PLUMBERS & STEAMFITTERS OF THE UNITED STATES AND CANADA, AND THE INTERNATIONAL HOD CARRIERS', BUILDING & COMMON LABORERS' UNION OF AMERICA OVER ALL WORK ON SUBWAYS, TUNNELS, HIGHWAYS, VIADUCTS, STREETS, AND ROADWAYS IN CONNECTION WITH SEWERS AND WATER MAINS

All the leveling, caulking, and making of all joints by any mode or method on water mains, gas, gasoline, and transportation lines is the work of the United Association of Journeymen Plumbers & Steamfitters of the United States and Canada (with the exception of work under compressed air).

All the digging, breaking of concrete, back filling, tamping, resurfacing and paving of all ditches in preparation for the laying of all pipes and all of the unloading and distributing of pipe for said ditches shall be the work of the laborers.

All of the laying of clay, terra cotta, ironstone, vitrified concrete or nonmetallic pipe and the making of joints for main and side sewers and drainage only is the work of the laborers.

In the event of any dispute arising between local unions of both international unions over work not covered herein, it is understood that the said dispute will be referred to the general presidents of both organizations for adjustment.

In witness whereof the members of the committee hereinafter listed certify that they as a committee have negotiated and executed this agreement with full authority from the respective international unions which each committee represents.

Dated at Washington, D.C., January 23, 1941.

Committee representing the International Hod Carriers, Building & Common Laborers' Union of America:

Joseph Marshall.

Herbert Rivers.

Peter Fosco.

M. D. Cox.

James Bove.

Attested and approved:

Jos. V. MORESCHI,

General President, International Hod Carriers, Building & Common Laborers' Union of America.

Committees representing the United Association of Journeymen Plumbers & Steamfitters of the United States and Canada:

M. F. Garrett.

Patrick J. Drew.

Charles J. Laurence.

Leo A. Green.

John J. McCartin.

Attested and approved:

GEORGE MASTERTON,

General President, United States Association of Journeymen Plumbers & Steamfitters of the United States and Canada.

WASHINGTON, D.C., February 15, 1943.

In the matter of: A DISPUTE between UNITED ASSOCIATION OF PLUMBERS AND STEAM FITTERS INTERNATIONAL HOD CARRIERS, BUILDING AND COMMON LABORERS UNION OF AMERICA Presentation: By oral arguments and by documents.

Appearances:

For Plumbers and Steam Fitters: George Masterson, E. K. Burkholder, and W. J. McLaughlin.

For Hod Carriers and Laborers: Vincent F. Morreale, John W. Garvey, and H. C. Kaiser.

Board of Review: Louis K. Comstock, Chairman; Lt. Col. C. D. Barker; and John P. Coyne (absent).

Matter in Dispute: Violation of Agreement of January 23, 1941.

Date of Hearing: January 5, 1943.

Wherever the term "Plumbers" is used in this decision, it shall be deemed to mean "United Association of Plumbers and Steam Fitters of America."

Wherever the term "Laborers" is used in this decision it shall be deemed to mean "International Hod Carriers, Building and Common Laborers Union of America."

Ón December 10 there came to the attention of the Board of Review, a stoppage of work on the effluent sewers at the synthetic rubber plants under construction for the Goodrich Rubber Company and the Carbide and Carbon Chemical Corporation at Louisville, Kentucky. One plant was being constructed by Ford, Bacon & Davis, and the other by Batson & Cook.

The Rubber Administrator brought the case to the Board of Review, and demanded relief from the work stoppage.

The Chairman of the Board of Review made an attempt to bring about an amicable settlement of the issue between the Plumbers and Laborers by personal contact with the Presidents of the two organizations. This attempt failed because both Presidents were out of reach, away from Washington.

The stoppage was so detrimental to early production at the two plants that the Board of Review summoned the representatives of both organizations to a hearing, and ordered an immediate resumption of work pending a decision.

The hearing was set for December 30, but, on urgent request of the Laborers, was postponed to January 5, and was held on that date.

This case, when first brought to the Board of Review, had the external appearance of a jurisdictional dispute. Investigation before the hearing took place indicated that the issue between the parties was one of interpretation of a written agreement between them, dated January 23, 1941.

This agreement appears to have been made necessary by the gradual rise in importance and organization of contractors engaged in heavy construction, and the consequent clashes in jurisdiction between the parties. A copy of this contract is attached to this decision as an appendix.

When the War Production Board, early in 1942, declared cast iron pipe to be a critical material, its use for underground sewer lines was automatically barred. The use of cast iron pipe for sanitary and waste sewer lines varied in different parts of the United States. In some localities, it was required, and in others, either vitrified clay or cast iron could be used.

But when the use of cast iron was barred by action of the War Production Board, some type of non-metallic pipe was required to be used in all localities outside of buildings. The "Plumbing Standards" issued by the Federal Public Housing Authority in February 1942 required the use of cast iron pipe for sanitary sewer services under buildings; from a point five feet outside the buildings, either cement concrete or vitrified clay pipe is permitted.

Under date of June 15, 1942, the War Housing Mobilization Specification, Number XXXV was issued, Section 3504 covering the use of either vitrified clay or cast iron soil pipe.

Since the date of issue of that specification permitting the alternate, the War Department has issued instructions to the field to use vitrified clay only. The same practice has been adopted by the Navy. The Defense Plant Corporation has adopted a similar policy.

These citations show how changes in engineering practice have been wrought by the exigencies of war as exemplified in the disuse of materials formerly specified. These changes have not been brought about by the action of either of the parties to the January 23, 1941, agreement.

Neither party to that agreement is justified in taking advantage of such changes to increase his allotment of work allocated by that agreement. Any readjustment of allocation by mutual agreement would be recognized everywhere as sound and sensible. Lacking such an arrangement, neither party to the agreement is justified in seizing jurisdiction which the agreement was not designed to give and did not authorize.

The title to the agreement, which in effect is a preamble, describes the jurisdictions of the parties and the areas of work covered by the agreement. It reads as follows:

"Memorandum of Agreement between the United Association of Journeymen Plumbers and Steam Fitters of the United States and Canada, and the International Hod Carriers, Building and Common Laborers Union of America over all work on subways, tunnels, highways, viaducts, streets and roadways in connection with sewers and water mains."

The decision rendered by the Building Trades Department in a jurisdictional dispute involving the issues in the instant case but arising from the laying of non-metallic pipe at the Bowman Field Airport, Wright Airport and U.S. Government Warehouses, all in the Louisville area, neither added anything to nor detracted anything from the plain wording of the agreement. It merely affirmed in new phraseology what had already been stated in the agreement.

There was an abortive attempt, made in August 1941, to amend the opening paragraph by the insertion of the words "and building construction" in connection with sewers and water mains.

The Committee appointed to clarify the agreement made the following suggestion as an interpretation of Paragraph 4 of the agreement:

"Interpretation of paragraph No. 4-The installation and laying of all clay, terra cotta, ironstone, vitrified concrete or non-metallic pipe and the making of joints for main and side sewers and drainage outside of any building or structure is the work of the laborers. All installations inside the building or structure shall be the work of the members of the United Association.”

This signifies that the Committee thought that the jurisdiction of the Plumbers should be limited by the walls of structures. The recommendations of the Committee have not been duly accepted, of record, by the International Presidents of either organization.

The agreement of January 1941 therefore stands as originally written. The January agreement is self-limiting to "subways, tunnels, highways, viaducts, streets and roadways in connection with sewers and water mains."

As the sewers in this case cannot be described as falling in any of those categories, and as they lie wholly within the boundaries of the sites,

THEY ARE HELD BY THE BOARD OF REVIEW TO BE WITHIN THE JURISDICTION OF THE UNITED ASSOCIATION OF PLUMBERS AND STEAM FITTERS. IT IS ALSO HELD BY THE BOARD OF REVIEW THAT THE PLUMBERS VIOLATED THE THIRD SECTION OF THE STABILIZATION AGREEMENT BY STRIKING BECAUSE THE SEWERS, THE SUBJECT OF THIS DECISION, WERE BEING LAID BY LABORERS. BY ORDER OF THE BOARD OF REVIEW, Washington, D.C., January 29, 1943.

LOUIS K. COMSTOCK, Chairman.

MEMORANDUM OF AGREEMENT between the UNITED ASSOCIATION OF JOURNEYMEN PLUMBERS AND STEAM FITTERS OF THE UNITED STATES AND CANADA, and the INTERNATIONAL HOD CARRIERS, BUILDING AND COMMON LABORERS' UNION OF AMERICA Over all work on subways, tunnels, highways, viaducts, streets and roadways in connection with sewers and water mains.

All the leveling, caulking and making of all joints by any mode or method on water mains, gas, gasoline and transportation lines is the work of the United Association of Journeymen Plumbers and Steam Fitters of the United States and Canada (with the exception of work under compressed air).

All the digging, breaking of concrete, back filling, tamping, resurfacing and paving of all ditches in preparation for the laying of all pipes and all of the unloading and distributing of pipe for said ditches shall be the work of the laborers.

All of the laying of clay, terra cotta, ironstone, vitrified concrete or nonmetallic pipe and the making of joints for main and side sewers and drainage only is the work of the Laborers.

In the event of any dispute arising between local unions of both International Unions over work not covered herein, it is understood that the said dispute will be referred to the General Presidents of both organizations for adjustment. In witness whereof the members of the Committee hereinafter listed certify that they as a committee have negotiated and executed this agreement with full authority from the respective International Unions which each Committee represents.

Dated at Washington, D.C., January 23, 1941.

Committee representing the International Hod Carriers, Building and Common Laborers' Union of America:

Attested:

JOSEPH MARSHALL.
HERBERT RIVERS.
PETER FOSco.
M. D. Cox.
JAMES BOVE.

Jos. V. MORESCHI,

General President, International Hod Carriers, Building and Common Laborers' Union of America.

Committee representing the United Association of Journeymen Plumbers and Steam Fitters of the United States and Canada:

M. F. GARRETT.

PATRICK J. DREW.

CHARLES J. LAURENCE.
LEO A. GREEN.

Attested and approved:

JOHN J. MCCARTIN.

GEORGE MASTERTON,

General President, United Association of Journeymen Plumbers and Steam Fitters of the United States and Canada.