Answer. I know him; I am well acquainted with him.

Question. When I asked you how long since this intimacy existed you say you do not know what intimacy means?

Answer. What?

Question. What common bond of intimacy exists between you and Hunter? What common bond is there between you and Hunter that brings you in here to stay all night with him?

Answer. None at all, only I am well acquainted with him. He knew my father very well. My father worked for his brother, and John staid there at the same time.

Question. Have you any doubt about whether the Ku-Klux organization exists in this county or not?

Answer. No, sir.

Question. You have not? Do you mean now that you have no idea it does exist? Answer. I can't tell you a thing about the Ku-Klux.

Question. Do you believe there is a Ku-Klux in this county?

Answer. I can't tell you that. I don't have any belief at all. I don't believe nothing about it. They say there is such things.

Question. You have no opinion about it?

Answer. Nothing more than what is in the papers.

Question. Is it true or false; have you an opinion?
Answer. No, sir.

Question. You have not an opinion whether it is true or false that there is a Ku-Klux in the county?

Answer. No, sir.

Question. Does your belief incline you to one side or the other, or are you perfectly non-committal?

Answer. Non-committal. I don't know a thing about it, nor wish to know a thing at all about them.

By Mr. STEVENSON:

Question. What do you think about it?

Answer. Which?

Question. About the Ku-Klux?

Answer. I don't know anything at all about it.

Question. You don't think about that; did you ever hear about them?

Answer. I hear just as I told you. I hear the clash and see it in the papers. I hear talk.

Question. Do you think there are any in this county?

Answer. I can't tell. I don't know.

Question. You have no opinion?

Answer. No, sir.

Question. Do you read and write?

Question. How long have you lived in that county?

Answer. Ever since I was born, and I am about forty-five years old.

Question. What is your occupation?

Answer. I am a lawyer.

The CHAIRMAN. I will 'request Judge Van Trump to examine this witness.

By Mr. VAN TRUMP:

Question. Were you at Lanrens on the day of the last election?

Answer. Yes, sir. The general election of October, 1870.

Question. I mean the election that took place on the day before the riot, known as the Laurens riot.

Answer. Yes, sir.

Question. Will you give us something of the general condition of the county for a short time before that general election, if there is anything particular to be mentioned? Answer. We had a general canvass during that summer of 1870, and our district is composed of blacks and whites; the proportion being 1,900 white to 2,300 black voters. I suppose, without referring to the census, that there are 2,300 or 2,400 blacks. We bad two parties in the district, nominally republicans and democrats, but really blacks and whites. The issue before the people was whether or not the representatives of the whites should be elected to the legislature and as county officers, or the representatives of the blacks. The district was divided almost upon the line of color. There were some whites who united themselves to the blacks.

Question. When you say "district" you mean county?

Answer. Yes, sir; that is the old name. The contest was a hot one, and during the summer, perhaps in May, I do not remember precisely, but pretty early in the canvass, to the surprise of the white people it was ascertained that some four or five companies had been organized, ostensibly as military companies, probably sixty to one hundred in each. They were composed entirely of blacks. When they were organized we did not know, but it became known to the county pretty soon that they had been organized, and they were composed of all ages. They were not organized in accordance with the militia law of South Carolina.

Question. What were the provisions of the militia law under which this organization was supposed to have been made?

Answer. I do not remember all its provisions, but one was: first, there should be a registry of all those liable to duty in the population between certain ages-I do not remember the precise ages; after that the military, the State militia, was to be organized out of the entire population, embracing both colors. But there was no registry' that I ever heard of. The first thing the people of the county knew, these companies had been organized.

Question. By whom were they organized?

Answer. It was understood that they were organized under the direction of a man named Joseph Crews, who had identified himself with that population early after the war. He was a citizen of that county for years before the war, and pretty soon after the war he had identified himself with that race and was elected by them to the State convention. He was a candidate for the legislature-the only white man a candidateand three negroes were candidates with him. These companies were organized, and were composed generally of the most turbulent blacks in their respective neighborhoods, to some extent. After these companies were organized, very soon it was ascertained that a large quantity of arms had been shipped to the county. They came in boxes and were sent, as it was understood, to Joseph Crews. Pretty soon after these arms were shipped, a force of the State constabulary was sent into the county, composed entirely of strangers to the people, particularly from the Northern States, mostly, I think, from your State of Ohio. They came ostensibly as peace officers. They quartered themselves at Crews's house. They seemed to be under his control almost entirely. Question. How many were there?

Answer. I think ten or a dozen. These when they came were first lodged in a house on the public square owned by Crews. He had a large wooden building there known as Tin Pot alley, which is somewhat famous in this State on account of that riot. He had been appointed trial justice in the mean time, too.

By the CHAIRMAN:

Question. Who had?

Answer. Crews. He was also chairman of the board of county canvassers, the officers who had charge of the election, and had his trial-justice office in a front room on a street immediately on the public square, and in rear of that office large numbers of these guns were stored. It was understood from subsequent developments that there were at least one thousand or one thousand two hundred stand of arins brought to the district. They were not all, however, stored there; a portion of them were stored in his barn. He lived about a quarter of a mile from the square. Our village is a large hollow square, with streets running off at the four angles. Two or three hundred of these guns, with cartridges and everything else, were stored there, and a portion at Clinton, a little village towards Newberry, on the railroad. After the guns and constabulary came the first thing the people knew meetings were called in behalf of that

party at different points in the district, usually on Saturdays; public meetings composed entirely of one party. Crews would start for one of his public meetings with one of these companies, sometimes two, armed and equipped, with bayonets on and cartridges around their bodies.

By Mr. VAN TRUMP:

Question. You mean one or two of this constabulary force, or negro companies? Answer. Negro companies, and the constabulary also; they always went with them. The impression made upon the people there by the conduct of this constabulary was that they were not peace officers, but partisans there to influence the election in this State. They went to all these public meetings and were followed by one or two companies of black militia. On the road to these meetings the white people were badgered considerably, it was so reported. For instance, they would shoot at dogs along the way, and it was reported at one place, as they passed down to a meeting fifteen or sixteen miles below the village, the people had assembled at the Methodist church for service, mostly women and children, and as they passed they were turbulent and fired around the building. I do not know that they fired over it. They insulted white people along the road, denouncing them occasionally as rebels, saying that they had guns and the white people did not have them; that Scott, the governor, did not allow them to have guns. When they assembled at the public meetings they usually stacked arms and were addressed or harangued generally by Crews. I never attended one of the meetings and do not know from my own knowledge what he said; but at one of these meetings, near Waterloo, some fifteen or twenty of the citizens did attend, and they published in the Herald, the county paper, an account of his speech over their signatures, certifying to its correctness. In that published statement it was said that he used language like this: He advised the negro women to dress as men and vote at the polls the coming election; that it would not do for the blacks to be defeated; that their freedom depended on that election; that the whites would reënslave them. He advised the negroes to vote as often as they pleased. He advised them to submit to no sort of outrage, but to resist under all circumstances. He advised them if they did not believe they were settled with fairly in their contracts, to go to the fields and take what they wanted. He said if they were convicted they would be pardoned; that he was a trial justice and that he was satisfied that Governor Scott would do anything he advised, as he had never failed to do so. He told the women if a difficulty took place they could assist with the torch. He said to the men that matches were cheap and did not cost more than ten cents a box. This is the substance of what those gentlemen said was a part of his harangue at Waterloo. This thing kept intensifying during the summer as that election approached. The negroes, of course, seeing the white people were not armed, and offering no resistance to insults along the highway, began to be pretty bold and defiant, until the impression prevailed almost entirely over the whole county, that it would be a miracle if the election passed off without a general conflict. The whites believing that, and being unarmed, a good many sent off and got arms, bought Winchester rifles on their own hook in New York and elsewhere. I don't know how many they brought into the county in that way; perhaps eighty or a hundred guns. Things were in this condition all the summer, Crews going from point to point every Saturday. About four weeks before the election a disturbance started in Newberry, forty-five miles away, which came near being a general conflict. I do not know how it originated. It spread into our county; I do not know how. The first thing we knew in the village there seemed to be a struggle about to ensue at Clinton, over the arms there. They were placed under the control of a man, an employé of Crews, there. Question. Was there a military company there?

Answer. Yes, sir; a negro company-one of those companies I spoke of in the beginning. This difficulty in Newberry widened into our county very strangely; I do not know how except from the general state of feeling between the two races over all the country; and the whites and blacks in Clinton for a day were standing on the eve of conflict; they were drawn up. Things were in this condition there. Our town is about eight miles from Clinton. Crews said to some of the citizens that he could stop that if he was down there, and they advised him to go down; but he did not go down. Instead of that he went out into the country, he said, as I understand, with a view of quieting the negroes out there; he was apprehensive that they might go to Clinton and precipitate a conflict there. He went to the country, and the next morning, in the village, to our surprise, there were about four hundred negroes. When I went down town-I live out about a mile-they were surrounding this armory of his on the public square.

By the CHAIRMAN:

Question. Have you mentioned what day that was?

Answer. I do not know the date; it was perhaps a month before the election. I suppose about four hundred negroes were around this armory of his. They were not armed and were doing nothing. They staid a day and a night and were rationed by

Crews out of this Tin Pot Alley. They went down on the depot-lot and cooked their provisions. The people did not understand it at all; it excited them very much, and but for the forbearance and prudence of the more prudent citizens there would have been a conflict then certainly. The people in the country heard of it and began to come to town; they began to come in squads, considerable squads. Some of us, hearing of their coming and knowing that if they did come and see these negroes there some of them might get to drinking and we would have a general row, sent out messengers to prevail upon these gentlemen who were coming from different quarters not to come in. They did not come in, and the next morning the negroes all disappeared. This difficulty at Clinton was stopped in the same way. Some of the prudent citizens got committees from the whites and blacks to meet and talk the thing over. They came to the conclusion that they would not have a fight there because they had difficulties in Newberry, and the thing passed off. On the day of election we generally had in our county about fifteen or twenty boxes scattered all over the county, convenient to the different neighborhoods. Crews was chairman of the county canvassers, and under the act of the legislature he had the power, or so construed the act, to arrange the precincts as he thought proper.

By Mr. VAN TRUMP:

Question. Did he change them?

Answer. He changed them as he pleased, locating precincts, and he appointed the managers; he had that right. He concentrated four boxes at the village.

Question. How many had there been before?

Answer. Never but one, except in 1868, when he had the same power. He brought them all there.

Question. All in the county?

Answer. All but two. I believe he had two others in the county. On this day be brought four there, and he brought those four where the negro population, if they had voted at their own regular precincts, were largely in the majority. He kept two off in the county where the whites were in the majority. The result was, that there was a very large preponderance of blacks in the village on the day of election over the whites. I suppose they outnumbered us by, I don't know how many, but there was a very large preponderance of blacks in the village on the day of election. The thing went on pretty well; the whites were excited, and so were the blacks, but no serious matter occurred. There was a little row. We had to vote within certain hours on the same day, and it was with some difficulty that we could concentrate it into one day. Question. So much concentration of population?

Answer. Yes, sir; the negroes surrounded the boxes in some places and kept the whites from coming in, and the whites surrounded one box, too. It was difficult to vote. They acted pretty much alike in that respect; but they got along better than I expeeted of them; but there was a little row, cursing, started at one box-there was no fighting, no blows. Shortly after that the news ran over the village that a considerable number of negroes had gone up to Crews's barn, where the guns were, and were arming to come down and attack the citizens. It went like wild-fire over the town. I never saw people concentrate so quickly in my life. The white people were not armed, except that they had pistols. When the news began to spread-you know how such a thing will scatter over a crowd-they collected in one body at a certain point, looking towards this house where they expected the negroes to come down the road. Colonel Smith, who was in command of a federal company there, I believe it belonged to the eighth regiment, and who was a very prudent man, had his quarters over the branch, a quarter of a mile from the public square. He heard of it, and came over immediately to the whites, and said he had heard this report about the negroes arming, and said, "I will go up and see about it. Don't do anything at all. Be quiet. I will go up and stop it." He marched straight up the road to this house, and directly he came back. He reported that there were some thirty or forty who were arming. He did not say what they intended to do, but he said he had told them that if they undertook anything of that sort would be the worst thing for the whole of them that they ever attempted, and directed them to put the guns down. They obeyed him promptly, and the thing hushed there for that day, and we had no further difficulty. That was the day of the election. The next day-it was during court-week, and a considerable body of men were at the court-house, in our county-in our State the whole population attends court

Question. Was that the first day of court?

Answer. No, sir, it was not; it was Wednesday; that is the great court-day.

By the CHAIRMAN:

Question. Which day was the election held on?

Answer. On Tuesday. That is my recollection. On Wednesday there was a large collection of blacks and whites. The election was just over, and that probably brought a great many to court. During the day, while court was in session-I was in the courthouse myself, engaged then in a case-I was examining a witness on the stand in a

riot case when this thing commenced. A man named Johnson, who belonged to the white party, and a white man, one of the State constabulary, who belonged to the negro party-I do not know his name-got into a row. I understood that it started from a private matter entirely. Johnson had heard that this constable had denounced him as a tallow-faced son-of-a-bitch, and he called upon him to know whether he had said so. This fellow denied it, and acted pretty boldly for a man under his circumstances. He asked who had told him so. Johnson said somebody, and he said he was a damned liar-so I understood-and conducted himself with a good deal of manhood, surrounded as he supposed himself, because at that time there were a good many standing around. Anyhow, while they were quarreling, a pistol went off. It was said it either fell from the breast of somebody and went off, or went off in a man's bosom. Nobody was shot or shot at. Nobody ever claimed to have been shot at. That attracted attention. The negroes, seeing this difficulty, and one of their party engaged, began to crowd up in one direction, and the citizens crowded up in another direction, precisely as a quarrel will do on any public day, even when people are not aroused by party feeling. Those two men finally got to blows. It occurred on the pavement about fifty yards from this armory of Crews, a place where the constabulary always staid, and the negroes always congregated when they came to town. The fight commenced, and the constable gave back in the fight towards this armory, and got to the door and rushed into it. In the mean time the negroes, some of them, had gone in ahead of him. When he rushed in the door was slammed to, as I have understood, and just as he got in the firing commenced from that building. ́ A volley was discharged from an upper window and they fired through the plank. The house was weather-boarded but not ceiled · inside. The firing came out through the planking, balls. The holes are there now, showing that some balls came through from the inner side. I remember Judge Moses and myself walked by there at the last court. I never had examined it; he pointed it out, and said those balls came from the inner side certainly. When that firing took place from the house the firing was upon the people of the square just in front of it, but nobody was hurt. One ball hit the court-house, and one passed through the crowd but missed everybody-I do not know how; it passed over their heads and hit Mr. Sullivan's office across the public square, a lawyer's office. The people rushed upon that concern with their pistols and they ran in. They broke the door down, and the negroes gave back and ran out of the back door. About that time; as I said, I was in the court-house. I heard considerable noise in the public square-all of us did. A constable ran out to see what was the matter. When he came back I asked him what was the matter. He said the negroes had commenced firing upon the whites. That emptied the court-house instantly; but there was very little shooting after I got there. I did not see anybody shot. The negroes had gone from this building, and the firing was about over. It was a very short thing. Two negroes were killed right there, and I think one wounded. Well, the people collected in bodies, all that were there nearly, and stood awaiting developments. It was supposed at first that the negroes who ran out of that building had started up to the other armory; but it turned out that they did not start there. During the evening Judge Vernon-who had adjourned court instantly, for everybody left, two or three negroes were on the jury, and they ran, and the court could not have gone on anyway-ordered the sheriff to raise a posse of one hundred men and take charge of these public arms. He did do so, and went up to Crews's house and hauled down all the arms from that place and from the other place, except those taken out by men who ran in, and he put them in the sheriff's office. It spread over the country worse than a prairie fire that the fight had commenced at the village between the whites and negroes; that the whites were in a minority and the negroes were getting the advantage; and they commenced coming in towards 5 o'clock in twos, threes, and tens on horseback.

Question. The white people?

Answer. Yes, sir; they came from every direction, and, I suppose, by midnight there must have been twenty-five hundred men. The news spread clear to Spartanburgh County that we had regular war down there; but, as I said, after the negroes ran out of there it soon quieted as far as the village was concerned. The negroes ran away and the constabulary ran away. As to Joe Crews, somebody had seen him in the morning, but he had run away. They all disappeared. There was a man in the constabulary from Napoleon, in your State, (Ohio,) named Volney Powell. Question. Governor Scott's place?

Answer. Yes, sir. He had been there a short time. He was a candidate for probate judge. There was a negro, named Bill Riley, a prominent fellow in his party, who was a sort of custodian of these guns, and another negro named Wade Perrin, who was a candidate for the legislature there. He harangued the negroes in the style of Crews, about the white people putting them in slavery, it seemed with a view of consolidating them against the whites, to make them believe that if the whites elected officers they would be put back in slavery, and to sow seeds of bitterness in their minds towards us. He was one of that class. Next morning the news came that Volney Powell and Bill Riley were found dead on the public highway, about four miles below