Mr. Dundas The Earl of Sir Herbert the Exchequer's fituation commenced, had exprefly stated, that this mode of payment fhould be difcontinued as ruinous. Mr. Dundas answered, that his right honourable friend certainly meant to conform to the falutary doctrines recommended in the fpeech alluded to; but it did not vary the prefent queftion, which was merely an offer to fuch navy-bill holders as chofe to accept it, leaving the rights of all others unimpaired and untouched. When Mr. Hatfel (the clerk) came to read the coal-tax refolution, The Earl of Surrey rose and stated his reafons for oppofing it; his Lordship faid, he was convinced the principle of the tax was so bad, that no modification whatever could make it fuch as ought to be adopted. In order, therefore, to afford the right honourable gentleman as much time as poffible to think upon another tax in lieu of it, he would take the sense of the House against it that day. Sir Herbert Mackworth faid, he would not debate the tax Mackworth then, after the handsome manner in which the right honourable Chancellor of the Exchequer had expreffed himfelf upon the fubject, he only rofe to ftate in one word why he could not approve it.. Sir Herbert, then, with great earnestnefs, urged feveral arguments against it, and among others faid, the poor in many parts of the country might be faid to live upon the warmth of their coal fire, and when fo heavy a tax was laid upon coals, they would be deprived of their chief means of exif tence. Mr. Gascoyne and other gentlemen objected to it, but faid they would not divide against it in that early stage. At length the question was put; The four were, Lord Surrey, Sir William Cunynghame, Mr. Huffey, and Mr. Stanley. When the Clerk came to the refolution relative to ordnance debentures, Sir Herbert Sir Herbert Mackworth rofe, and very strenuously pleaded Mackworth the cause of the holders of thofe debentures; contending, that as they bore no intereft, and navy bills did after a certain period, the holders of the ordnance de bentures DE BATE S. bentures, who had, during the laft war been kept out of their money thirty-fix months, inftead of fifteen only, (which was the utmoft period the debentures remained outstanding formerly) were intitled to fome favour; and the favour, Sir Herbert faid, would be compenfated, if as much of the ordnance debentures were paid off, as the debentures up to December, 1782, amounted to. After a good deal of converfation on this fubject and others' of the taxes, The fix firft refolutions of the Committee being read a fecond time, were agreed to by the House. The feventh, eighth, ninth, tenth, eleventh, and twelfth refolutions of the Committee being read a fecond time, were, with feveral amendments thereunto, agreed to by the House, and are as follow, viz. That there be charged for and upon all bricks which fhall be made in Great Britain, by whatsoever name or names they now are or hereafter may be called or known, a duty of two fhillings and fix pence for every thoufand, and fo in proportion for any greater or lefs quantity. That there be charged for and upon all tiles, commonly called or known by the name of plain tiles, a duty of three fhillings for every thoufand, and fo in proportion for any greater or lefs quantity. That there be charged for and upon all tiles, commonly called or known by the name of pan or ridge tiles, a duty of eight fhillings for every thousand, and fo in proportion for any greater or lefs quantity. That there be charged for and upon all tiles, commonly called or known by the name of paving tiles, not exceeding ten inches fquare, a duty of one fhilling and fix pence for every hundred, and fo in proportion for any greater or lefs quantity. That there be charged for and upon all tiles, commonly called or known by the name of paving tiles, exceeding ten inches fquare, a duty of three fhillings for every hundred, and fo in proportion for any greater or lefs quantity. That there be charged for and upon all tiles, other than fuch as are before enumerated and defcribed, by whatsoever name or names fuch tiles now are or hereafter may be called or known, a duty of three fhillings for every thousand, and fo in proportion for any greater or lefs quantity. The fubfequent refolutions of the Committee being read a fecond time, were agreed to by the Houfe. VOL. XV. cellor Pitt. July 2. On the report of a bill for allowing Sir Ashton Lever to difpofe of his museum by way of lottery, and on a motion for enabling him to enlarge the period, the Earl of Surrey made fome farther remarks, and the report, with the amendment, was agreed to. The order of the day having been moved, for the House to refolve itself into a Committee of the whole Houfe, to take into confideration the petition of the East-India Company, the Report of the Court of Directors, stating the affairs of the Company, and the Report of the Committee of the Houfe, appointed to examine into the facts ftated in the Report of the Directors, and those papers having been feverally referred to the Committee, the Speaker left the chair, and Mr. Gilbert took his feat at the table. Mr. Chan- Mr Chancellor Pitt then rofe and faid, although the papers upon the table involved in them many important and complicated confiderations, that would neceffarily call for a full difcuffion, yet he did not conceive that to be the proper moment to bring the difcuffion forwards, or that he should have any reafon to take up any great portion of the time of the House in ftating, what he thould think it neceffary to fay, preparatory to his making the motion with which he intended to conclude, which would be fimply a motion for leave to bring in a bill for the relief of the East-India Company. Future opportunities of difcuffion of all the affairs relative to India and to the Company would offer themselves in the progrefs of the bill, and as that dis cuffion must then be held, he should not for the prefent go much at large into the subject. The rife or the downfal of the Company's affairs was an object that was intimately connected with the vigour or decline of the British conftitution, and every effort to extricate them from difficulties was a step towards national independence. Whatever the opinions of gentlemen might be, refpecting the course that Parliament ought to take with the India Company; however involved their circumftances might eventu ally prove;, or however much the regulation of their territorial concerns might be coupled with political difquifition, ftill it was his duty to enter speedily upon the discus fion of their affairs; and he would do it chearfully becaufe he was confcious of the rectitude of his intentions. When the measure which he should propose came to be discussed, every circumftance of the Report would come properly into review; and in the mean time all that was neceflary for the motion with which he intended to trouble the Committee, and on which he apprehended there could be little obfervation, was the general object of the Report, and the immediate measure which was neceffary. In confidering this, he would draw the Committee to the three principal points in the Company's prefent neceffity. Firft, The debts which were due by the Company to the public by the accumulation of duties, and in the discharge. of which unquestionably it would be requifite for the Public to indulge them for a time. To poftpone the duties for a time was certainly an inconvenience which the Public could hardly bear; but as it was fo neceffary to the Company, and as the inconvenience to the Public, though material, would not be in any degree to be compared to the injury which they muft fuftain through the Company, if they should be diftreffed by forcing the payment; it was therefore his idea, that time fhould be given to the Company to discharge this debt; but certainly the indulgence. fhould be guarded, and no longer time be given than was actually neceffary. The second subject in this inquiry was, the bills which were drawn upon the Company from India, part of which were now accepted, and part lying unaccepted, or of which notice was received. This was a queftion infinitely more doubtful and delicate than the preceding - It was eafy to comprehend the whole extent of the injury which would. be fuftained by putting off the payment of the duties; but it was not fo cafy to perceive all the evils which might follow from fuffering the Company to accept the bills which were, or which might be, drawn in India. He wished to act in this matter with extreme caution; and he should certainly be happy in fubmitting his ideas, and in governing himself by the wifdom of the House, in ftriking the medium, and fettling how far they ought to go, and where to stop in this business. The third point was the dividend which the Company in their prefent circumftances ought to make, and which might be regulated in this bill, fo as to enable the Company to act on a certain bafis, without applying from time to time for authority to do it in a capricious way. Thefe three were the chief points on which he thought it neceffary to animadvert in the present ftage, as the topics on which he was to ground the bill to be brought in. On the first point, namely, the poftponing of the duties, it was his opinion, that they should be divided into parts, and that indulgence fhould be given to the Company to the end of the year 1785, for the laft; that is to fay, that the duties due up to a certain time should be paid in fix months from January next, and the remainder, which might be due at the end of the year, should be paid in twelve months. Shorter time he did not think it would be advifeable to give, for it was better to comply with the Company's request in this refpect than to tie them down to feverer terms, which might afterwards afford them an argument for a fresh application. The right honourable gentleman then proceeded to ftate his ideas on the fubject of the bills Certainly it was neceffary that Parliament should proceed with the utmoft caution. Bills to a very confiderable amount were already received and accepted Bills to a much greater amount were announced, and more were expected —What was to be done in this bufinefs? The Company stated in their Report probable grounds of belief, that they would be in circumftances to answer their demands. They expofed what they believed to be the real state of their affairs They acknowledged their prefent embarraffments; but they ftated the profpects on which they made their application to Parliament for leave to fign the bills which were coming home. It appeared that they owed a debt of five millions in India: the accounts of what they had suffered by the war were not yet fully made up, nor could their amount be properly afcertained; certainly, however, their circumftances in India were not flattering; but without indulging too warm and flattering ideas on the one hand, or notions too gloomy and dejecting on the other, he was of opinion that there were rational profpects of the Company, and fuch as would juftify the House in authorifing them to accept of the bills of which they had received notice. He muft ftate, however, that this rational hope could only be fuftained by the most rigid and inflexible œconomy The establishments must pay the strictest attention to principles of reform, and even of parfimony · Orders must be obeyed, and the fyftem amended throughout-There were but two ways of recovering the Company the one, that their commerce, by the regulations to be made here, fhould be rendered more productive than - of |