ing seemed only to serve the criminal. As an actual example of the misuse that this law has resulted in, we cite the case for the target pistol shooter. In New York City the number of carry permits has decreased by one-third, while nationally the number of registered target pistol shooters has multipled 39.1 times during the same time period. Another instance shows one law-abiding citizen, adhering to the strict letter of the law, being subjected to a wait of only 13 months for his pistol permit. And this is not an extreme case, it is merely average for New York State.

Second, and perhaps more important, the addition of unnecessary and redundant chapters to the Federal Firearms Act will serve to make this an even more unpopular law than it is now. Unpopularity breeds contempt. Disrespect is followed by disregard. ́ Our country does not need another "noble experiment."

The final point we wish to elaborate on is the one of registration. The evils of gun registration have been presented to all of you at one time or another in the past. The National Rifle Association's booklet on "The Pro and Con of Firearms Registration" deals quite competently with the subject. We respectfully submit that this booklet be made mandatory reading for anyone considering changing our present gun laws.

We mentioned the National Rifle Association. They have publicly stated that they are not opposed to the passage of the Dodd bill. However, in that same public statement, they also stated that they are traditionally opposed to gun registration of any kind. In their own digest of S. 1975 they state **** ***** and a description of the firearm being purchased shall go to the local law enforcement officer." We submit that whatever regulatory body is chosen to interpret this requirement and draft the applications or forms involved will most assuredly ask for the serial number of the firearm involved. We submit that this is registration. A copy of this presentation has been sent to the National Rifle Association asking that their position be changed.

To summarize, we feel that only the responsible gun owner will ever be affected by what is proposed here that the law-abiding citizen whose hobby or leisure time activity revolves about firearms would be subjected to inconvenience, delays, and redtape that are quite obviously unnecessary. Does the responsible citizen deserve such treatment? A look at the constantly increasing number of hunting licenses being issued each year, as compared to the constantly decreasing number of accidents involving firearms, would seem to indicate that this particular citizen is doing considerably better in his chosen sport than most.

Despite the approximately 20 million hunters afield in 1963 there were only 2,000 accidental deaths involving firearms. And this 2,000 included accidental deaths in the home and from dynamite, bombs, grenades, and so forth. Deaths involving firearms have decreased nationally by about 25 percent during the last 12 years. Can any other area of activity boast such a record? Are we then to be subjected to further suspicion, abuse, harassment, and inconvenience? Finally we submit that the firearms dealer and quite possibly the firearms industry, will be seriously affected by what we have proposed here. Think back to 1939 and the plight of Great Britain without fire

arms. It would appear that there are those amongst us who would put us in the same position today.

Senator YARBOROUGH. Thank you for your statement, Mr. Linford and Mr. Vaughn. Is your organization one whose members are primarily concerned with hunting or do you have competitive target shooting or what type of activity?

Mr. LINFORD. We have garden clubs, cocker spaniel clubs, German short-haired pointers, target shooters, fishermen, exclusively fresh water fishermen, exclusively salt water fishermen, and even beach buddy associations involved.

Senator YARBOROUGH. You mean in this Suffolk County Fish and Game

Mr. LINFORD. Yes.

Senator YARBOROUGH. In your association?

Mr. LINFORD. In addition to an individual membership, better than 2,000 individuals are not in any way affiliated with any of the clubs mentioned.

Senator YARBOROUGH. In that capacity, are they primarily collectors or do they take part in target shooting or hunting?

Mr. LINFORD. Just about and some are just fishermen who don't know the first thing about a gun.

Senator YARBOROUGH. You have quite a cosmopolitan group then in this association?

Mr. VAUGHN. Yes; we do. In addition to that, we have affiliated clubs. Some of the clubs are not members of the association itself. You see, we are affiliated with various clubs and the association is more of a central organization. That is why we come here today, representing not only the exact membership, but the affiliated clubs.

Senator YARBOROUGH. I was noticing in your first paragraph that it says affiliations and individual memberships. Now you are speaking for all of them? Your position here represents the position of those garden clubs and all affiliated clubs?

Mr. VAUGHN. Affiliated clubs, that is right; yes, sir, Mr. Senator. Senator YARBOROUGH. Thank you for the condensation that you have in the statement here.

Mr. VAUGHN. May we thank you for giving us the opportunity to appear here today. We really consider it a privilege.

Senator YARBOROUGH. Does counsel have any questions?

Mr. BEEKS. No.

Senator YARBOROUGH. Then the committee will stand in recess until next Thursday.

(Thereupon, at 12:05 p.m., the committee was adjourned to reconvene on Thursday, January 30, 1964.)

INTERSTATE SHIPMENT OF FIREARMS

THURSDAY, JANUARY 30, 1964

U.S. SENATE,

COMMITTEE ON COMMERCE,

Washington, D.C.

The committee met at 10 a.m., in room 5110, New Senate Office Building, the Honorable Howard W. Cannon presiding.

Senator CANNON. The hearing will come to order.

We are very happy today to have here the President pro tempore of the U.S. Senate, the distinguished senior Senator from the State of Arizona, who will introduce the first witness.

Senator Hayden, we are very pleased to have you appear before our committee this morning.

Senator HAYDEN. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Senator MAGNUSON. As chairman of this committee, I want to welcome my old friend Carl Hayden. I think the record should show that he is an expert on firearms, having been the rootingest-tootingest sheriff that Arizona ever had in its early days.

Senator YARBOROUGH. Mr. Chairman, I think Senator Hayden was captain in the Arizona National Guard. He took a rifle team to Camp Perry, Ohio, and is a national rifle champion. Is that not correct, Senator Hayden, that you participated in the national meets?

Senator HAYDEN. Yes, but not quite that. I will tell you about it. Senator YARBOROUGH. I know he is a great rifleman, a tremendous marksman, and has a tremendous record in his active officer days.

STATEMENT OF HON. CARL HAYDEN, U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF ARIZONA

Senator HAYDEN. Mr. Chairman, I was a captain in the National Guard of Arizona when we cleared off the sagebrush from a thousandyard rifle range and as a result of the practice that my company had there, about half of the membership of the Arizona rifle team at Camp Perry, Ohio, in my time came from that company.

I did make a record at Camp Perry, in a match that involved 800, 900, and a thousand yards. At 900 yards I hit the bull's-eye 15 consecutive times, which is known as a possible.

I visited a battlefield in France after the First World War, where a comparatively small force of marines were attacked by a very large force of Germans. The marines picked out an individual German and promptly killed or wounded him. As a result, when that attack was about halfway to them, the Germans fled, thereby demonstrating the value of accurate rifle firing.

From a member of the National Rifle Association, which opposes features of this bill, upon the theory that it impinges on the constitutional right "of the people to keep and bear arms." Mr. Chairman, at this time I also present a statement by the Honorable Paul Fannin, Governor of Arizona, expressing his views with respect to the bill now under consideration by your committee.

Senator CANNON. We will be happy to receive that statement, Senator Hayden, and to include it in the record.

(The statement follows:)

STATEMENT OF Gov. PAUL FANNIN, OF ARIZONA, OPPOSING S. 1975

As Governor of Arizona it is my duty to uphold the constitution and laws of Arizona and to protect the rights and property of Arizona citizens. A study of S. 1975 by Senator Thomas Dodd convinces me this bill would infringe the rights of our citizens under our constitution and convert to the whims of a Federal agency the time-honored principle that a man is innocent until proven guilty. This bill would also impose a restraint on trade that would virtually wipe out the lifework and businesses of a number of our citizens, some of whom are known nationwide for the quality of their work in building fine rifles, and accurizing rifles for this country's leading competitive shooters, including some of the top marksmen of the Air Force and the Army. These are such men as Roy Dunlap of Tucson, Warren Drake of Phoenix, formerly top armorer for the U.S. Army's marksmanship training unit; George J. Stidworthy, Jr.; and the Atkinson & Marquardt Co., of Prescott, not to mention William Sukalle of Phoenix, dean of the country custom barrelmakers. All of these depend upon mail-order business for their existence, but theirs is not a traffic in cheap arms with criminals. Some of the rifles they turn out cost hundreds of dollars, and their barrels draw premium prices throughout the country.

I believe it is significant that a large majority of the States adopted strong constitutional provisions to guarantee the right of their citizens to keep and bear arms. And it cannot be argued that these provisions were a product of the frontier because Arizona's constitution was adopted in 1910, some 30 years after the last Indian war. It says: "The right of the individual citizen to bear arms in defense of himself or the State shall not be impaired, but nothing in this section shall be construed as authorizing individuals or corporations to organize, maintain, or employ an armed body of men."

Our State, indeed no State, and very few communities, west of the Mississippi has a problem relating to mail-order firearms, unless it be one created by failure of the Congress to restrict the importation of worthless, cheap foreign pistols, and castoff foreign military rifles into this country. This is the real problem, but only Congress can solve it.

We have no difficulty in Arizona. Our laws governing possession of firearms forbid possession of a pistol by persons convicted of specified crimes of violence until such time as they have discharged their debt to society, and are pardoned. We do not allow any permit to carry a concealed weapon, a chief source of trouble in other States. And we require written consent of a parent or guardian for sale or gift of a firearm or ammunition to minors. Our laws are sensible and for that reason they pose no enforcement problem because people comply with them. We have derived no benefit from the Federal Firearms Act that is apparent to me, and the only good it could do would be to merely provide that common carriers comply with State laws in making delivery of packages containing firearms.

Criminals pay no attention to it, and it is impossible to apprehend them until they have committed a more serious crime, and they always are charged with the State offense. The most serious crime in our State in 1963 was the murder of Sheriff Tarr, of Mohave County, who was shot down by an ex-convict who bought a pistol in Las Vegas, Nev., and transported it across the State line. Sheriff Tarr mortally wounded his assailant, however, as he was falling and no prosecution was possible.

I appeal to you, gentlemen, not to be carried away by the hysteria of our President's assassination. The antigun people of our country have seized upon this as an opening wedge to disarm the citizens of this country so they will quickly forget the skill of marksmanship. But I must remind you that our country must depend on its citizenry in time of grave peril, and there never is time to train expert marksmen.