the country, when remote fortifications could only be reached by navigable waters, engineers were employed to mark out the routes and to establish places where such fortifications could best be erected; and it was out of that act, and the continuation of it by the corps of engineers, that caused that part of the civil establishment of the Government employed in the construction of public works to be landed in the martial department, the War Department of the Government; and it is through that system—or lack of system, rather, without organized growth-that the whole effort of attempting to improve the navigable waters of the United States has been more or less frustrated, by being carried on in a disorganized way, the appropriation having been expended for improvement in one part of a navigable river in one year, and for another part another year, leaving the first attempted improvement to be cared for at some subsequent time. The result has been, even since the Civil War, that $540,000,000 has been expended for the improvement of navigable rivers and harbors, while nothing of importance has been accomplished.

The French Government sent to this country a gentleman to investigate this subject, and he made his report to his government, which seems to embody the substance of the whole matter. He says that on examination he found:

There is not in existence (in the United States) any map showing where the streams are on which this money has been spent, indicating the head of navigation on each, the amount of water in the streams, or the number of months during which the river can be used. There were three government departments having lists of navigable streams, and no two agreed in the number or the names, or in the hydrology of the streams. There was not in America a man who had looked at all of these streams as a system and understood their interrelations. Nor were there any reliable statistics of trade on them, nor any way to get such statistics. If he should come to-day, he would find that there are no two streams in America having the same size locks throughout, and hardly a single river having a uniform standard of lock chamber. He would find the Tennessee improved with locks of one size-and the size of the lock chamber prescribes the dimensions of the boat to use that river-and the Cumberland, a similar stream adjoining it and of the same depth, about to be blocked to all Tennessee river boats, with locks about eight feet narrower and considerably shorter. He would find, in fact, chaos; and he would understand the helplessness with which the

Rivers and Harbors Committee confessed to the last Congress that the nation is committed already to river projects which it will cost $500,000,000 to complete, without any connection among these projects, no logical order of completion of them, and only favor and engineering reports as guides to direct Congress in spending its money this year on one, next year or next decade on another.

I want to read one or two instances of the unsystematic way in which this work is carried on. I do not want to bore you with this matter, but it is important:

The subject of improving the Ohio has been under consideration for more than a century. In 1817-18 the State of Pennsylvania began work to be carried as far as Wheeling. In 1835 Congress applied $550,000 to the river for the six hundred miles above the falls at Louisville, and began removing snags and rocks but abandoned it after a few years. The Pennsylvania Railroad organized a corporation to effect its improvement, but the Government intervened, as with other parties, and it was not until 1875-6 that the system of movable dams was finally determined upon for this stream, and work commenced by the Government, in an effort to secure a six-foot stage by such structures, at an estimated cost of some $50,000,000. “It has proceeded with a snail's pace,” said Mr. Rausdell. "Out of fifty-two locks of this system only six have been completed, and four others are in process of construction. The project has been changed to one of nine feet, and the estimate increased to $63,000,000. If this gigantic and most meritorious work is continued at the same rate as for the past thirty years it will not be closed at the end of this century."

There are instances similar to-in fact, more monstrous than—this one. Another defect in the present system, which will probably be apparent to all business men, is that the basis. upon which all this work moves, the engineer corps, is constantly changing in its personnel. We have a corps of engineers this year. Next year part of them are gone, some to the Philippines, to Cuba and elsewhere. I have a list showing where they all are. Next year we have at least a partial change of personnel. In two or three years the old crowd are all out and a new crowd in.

If we are to have a department of public works it will be apparent that we should have a man at the head of it charged with responsibility, who will go at it in a systematic way to make surveys and calculations and to make recommendations to Congress, so that something shall be accomplished, as contrasted with this way of working at one point one year, at

another point another year, and in the course of a decade back to the first point.

I am not going to take further time. It is a very interesting and very great subject, with a very long history. I know that there are experts with us to-day, perhaps at least one who knows as much about it as any other man in the United States, perhaps more, and I want to hear from such men who know very much more about it than I do.

Mr. WALDO SMITH, of New York.-—Mr. President, in rising to second this, I will only say that any department having authority to spend $50,000,000 ought to have a responsible head, one who knows all about the whole thing. I second the resolution.

Mr. HAUPT.-Only one word more, Mr. President. This subject has been before the National Board of Trade for many years. We have threshed it out pretty well, and I think everybody understands it. Experienced men in the Senate have said that if there is a worse system to be found than that which exists in this country, they would like to know where it is. No civilized country in the world has internal work of such importance confided to any but civilians for that particular purpose.

The great defects of our system have been pointedly referred to by Mr. GIBSON, and one such defect is the lack of initiative. I think it particularly unfortunate that in the great list of public works none of them have ever been inaugurated by the Government itself. Without exception, I think, every one has been commenced by transportation corporations or by municipalities, whenever revenue was to be derived from the construction of such work. The railroads, now aggregating over $16,000,000,000 in value, have all been built by that method, and our canals and waterways were originally developed in that way. When the tolls have become burdensome and traffic has become more fully developed, then the people want to get rid of the tolls, payable at the toll bridges, and they procure them to be taken over by the Government. The Government gets what it buys, but whether it gets its quid pro quo is another question. As an illustration, the Monon

gahela Navigation Company was taken over at less than $4,000,000, and is now being improved. The Sault Ste. Marie canal project was originally opposed by the Government because it would pass through an Indian reservation, but it was finally taken over and the canal was enlarged by the Government. The result of that development is wonderful, over $52,000,000 last year.

I feel that there is nothing that will come before the Board that will do so much for the development of the waterways and the economic transportation of the manufacturing and industrial interests of the country and put them on a proper footing as a proper organization of this kind; and I will only say that in 1888 the civil engineers of the country organized for that purpose, and that two bills were prepared, both of which were reported favorably in the House and Senate, but the time was a little premature. The railroads then did not feel that they wanted the waterways developed. I think that opposition has now ceased. The railroads now feel that they must segregate their tonnage. They are now carrying over 53 per cent. of the total tonnage of the country, which is a very great handicap to them, one they would be glad to be rid of, so that, as Mr. J. J. HILL said, we may now count on the co-operation of the railroads in securing waterways.

To spend this $500,000,000 at the rate of $50,000,000 a year will take ten years. But the industrial interests of the country are making increasing demands, for the tonnage of the railroads is increasing five-fold. I most earnestly trust, therefore, that the resolution of the New York Board of Trade and Transportation will meet with the hearty indorsement of this Board.

Mr. CARTER, of Boston.-It seems to me, Mr. President, that on so important a subject we should not rush to a vote, when half of our members are necessarily absent engaged on committee work. it is certainly no small matter to suggest such a complete change in the manner of performing so large a work as this and simply vote on it off-hand. I think the matter should be considered deliberately. I believe it might be wise even to let it go over another year. I was not here last year and I

do not recall this matter having been brought up. I think on a great matter of this kind it is not too much to ask a year for deliberation, in order to find out what the sentiment and feeling may be among our own constituents; to find out, as we cannot here, all there is to be said for and against. If it is pushed now to a decision we shall certainly be called upon to show how we reached the decision; and yet I think possibly half of our members are not present to hear the discussion or take part in it, and it seems to me that is pressing it unduly. Let us proceed with deliberation. I trust we shall not act at this time, but that those who come here next year knowing that the question is to be brought up-if the motion which I shall make prevails-will come prepared to consider it intelligently.

I move that the matter be referred back to the committee, to be reported upon next year, when the delegates will have the knowledge that they are to vote upon and consider an important subject. I make that motion, Mr. President.

Mr. BURROWS, of Cleveland.-It seems to me Mr. President, that we want to go slowly on a matter so important as this. The Government of the United States has not interfered with business in the past, as have the governments of other civilized nations, and for one I am opposed to everything that is an extension of governmental interference. I believe that the Interstate Commerce Commission, with no more force than it has, is already working along lines that will check the development of the United States, and that had the Interstate Commerce Commission forty years ago its present power, the development of the country would have stopped at about the Mississippi River.

As one, and a very small one, I ask that we suspend action on this question. I am thoroughly with Mr. CARTER. I think it is very dangerous to travel too far. It is easier to go too fast and be sorry than to go too slow and be safe. I take pleasure in seconding the motion of Mr. CARTER, and I should be glad to see this body declare this morning in favor of postponing action for a year.

Mr. GIBSON.-I want to say that while the proposed establishment of a department of public works is a novelty, yet