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And, in the meantime, to be in force and effect until such legislation is accomplished, we respectfully ask the Congress that it recommend the issuance of an Executive order declaring an emergency in the fisheries of Bristol Bay and providing as follows:

(1) That the Alaska Department of Fisheries shall be empowered to fix the aggregate amounts of gear to be permitted in each of the fishing districts of Bristol Bay.

(2) That the Delegate for Alaska be empowered to appoint a five-man commission with one member from each of the fishing districts of Bristol Bay.

(3) That the Bristol Bay Commission be empowered to allocate the gear quotas among the fishermen during the emergency. For the Bristol Bay Fish Producers Association. Respectfuly submitted.


Business Agent, Mr. O'BRIEN. I might say, through the generosity of Colonel Libby of the Air Force we have acquired an additional half an hour, but I would also suggest that the members of the committee not overestimate that additional half-hour as they have the original hour.

(Discussion off the record.)
Mr. BARTLETT. The next witness is Mr. Kallenberg.


BRISTOL BAY FISH PRODUCERS ASSOCIATION Mr. KALLENBERG. My name is Robert Kallenberg. I represent the Bristol Bay Fish Producers Association.

I just want to say that the boys have instructed me, the fishermen, to make a very strong case to transfer the control of our fisheries to Alaska. We feel that Alaska is well able to manage its business fisheries,

The Alaska Department of Fisheries was created by the Territorial legislature in 1949. It is a going concern. It has at least a nucleus to take over the management, and I think it could be rapidly expanded to do the job.

Mr. O'BRIEN. It has been suggested in some other places that were such transfer to occur there would be skilled people presently with the Federal Government who might be available.

Mr. KALLENBERG. There is no question but what the Territorial department would take such capable help as would be available from that source. There is no question about it.

Mr. Bartlett's bill, the transfer bill, provides for such physical equipment as they have to go with the transfer.

By way of comment, I simply say that that present depleted fisheries is none of our doings. We had no part in it. It was something that was created without our having any influence at all, and until the very recent years our suggestions were met either with ridicule or just forgotten.

Mr. O'BRIEN. During the period when this was being depleted, when they were taking more fish than should have been taken, this community did not share in any great profits, you merely made an adequate wage while that was going on?

Mr. KALLENBERG. At times the fishermen have made a fair living here, at times when fish were plentiful. I mean the chain of things that brought about this depleted fishery was none--it was our con

cern, but we had nothing to say about it, no voice in the management of it. It isn't our fault it is depleted, and it is a thing we find ourselves in, and we had no part in the preparation of it.

I might say, too, that this is not an impossible situation, because the spawning grounds in this area are just the same as they were 100 years ago. We are not confronted with some of the problems that the stateside fisheries are confronted with, with dams and pollution and logged-over areas and resultant turbidity of waters, erosion problems.

Mr. O'BRIEN. You have no pollution problems here?

Mr. KALLENBERG. No. Our spawning grounds are as yet with only very small settlements on them. It seems as though it boils down to a problem of management, and perhaps with proper research we might even increase the productivity of the area.

The Saltonstall-Kennedy funds are made available to the various States, but when we come to Alaska we find these funds are made available to the Fish and Wildlife Service. I don't question the manner in which those funds are being used, but the fact that we are not permitted to control them doesn't set well with us.

I would use as a parallel: If I would buy everything my good wife needed, and if my purchases were all well-founded and made with the greatest judgment, she wouldn't be very happy, she would want some money to spend herself. We are the same way. We want to administer these funds and feel they rightfully belong to us.

Pelagic fishing of salmon is something else I would like to mention.

In connection with the research that is being done by the North Pacific International Fisheries Commission, the American Research Vessel Cobb has located and made public they have located salmon in considerable concentrations on the high seas. Due to the nature of the salmon, we are sure that any high-seas fishery on a mixed stock of salmon originating in various rivers throughout the Territory would pose management problems that would be insurmountable. These fish we have in the Bristol Bay area are easier managed if they are allowed to segregate themselves in their various home streams and then each home stream managed separately, and any fishing of a mixed population of fish will certainly pose management problems that are just insurmountable.

We would like to see United States policy established in opposition to any fishing of salmon on the high seas. It should be a matter of policy.

Dillingham is in need of a small boat harbor. The plans are completed. They have the blessings of all the interested agencies, and all we need is the money from Congress.

Mr. O'BRIEN. How long has that plan been completed ?

Mr. KALLENBERG. Last April. Last April I believe it had the final O. K. from all the various agencies that would be interested in it.

Mr. O'BRIEN. What was the estimated cost ?

Mr. KALLENBERG. Some $300,000 with, I believe, $9,000 a year maintenance.

The fact that it has been necessary for us to journey here to meet your folks and we were unable to entertain you in Dillingham simply points up the need for aids to navigation on the local airstrip.

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So far as the trapping, for your information the traps just previous to 1900 numbered at one time 18 in the Bristol Bay area. They were outlawed by Act of Congress in 1923. At that time only 38 were operating

If you so desire, I could quote you fishery reports in the neighborhood of 1900, and I believe even in the lte 1890's, where cannery operators said that the traps were not an effective means of catching fish in Bristol Bay. I would say that the traps were outlawed with the leave and consent of those who operated them.

Are there any questions?
Mr. BARTLETT. Mrs. Pfost !
Mrs. Prost. No questions.
Mr. BARTLETT. Mr. O'Brien?
Mr. O'BRIEN. No questions.
Mr. BARTLETT. Mr. Utt?
Mr. Utt. No questions.
Mr. BARTLETT. Mr. McFarland?
Mr. MCFARLAND. No questions.
Mr. BARTLETT. Dr. Taylor?
Mr. Taylor. No questions.
Mr. BARTLETT. Thank you very much..
James Hawkins. Will you identify yourself please for the record.

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Mr. HAWKINS. I am James E. Hawkins. I am superintendent of the Territorial school at Dillingham.

I don't have very much to say, ladies and gentlemen, but the thing that I want to point out to you folks is that this area is not a static or declining area of population. I would like to point out that in 1980 or thereabouts, when the Dillingham School first opened its doors it had one teacher and 2+ pupils, iind today, 15 years later, we have 210 children and 11 teachers in the Dillingham School. This is only in the Territorial school. We also have two other schools in that area, a Seventh Day Adventist parochial school, with approximately 12 children, and a Catholic parochial school with approximately 15 children. I think the total of that will reach somewhere about 235 to 210 pupils.

I think you will find that other communities in the area have similarly grown. The Naknek School this year has had an increase which required them to send an S. O. S. to me for first grade books and other materials for the Naknek School, close to King Salmon.

With this many children coming on, I think you will all agree that the future of any State or area depends upon its young people and upon the education they receive. If we are to adequately serve these young people from an educational standpoint, their parents should certainly have an opportunity to feed their bodies and to create an atmosphere in the villages that will lead us to help to educate these children.

I think that one of the best things that has happened to Alaska in the way of education has been the Alaska public works; and if, and when, that comes up for passage in Congress again, I think that you

people should see that the funds are at least kept the same, if not increased. We need these schools badly.

For instance, Dillingham, with a new addition only 3 years ago, is now bursting its seams again. Every room in our school building is filled now. We are going to have another school building in the very near future. We have no graduating seniors in our high school, and another first grade next year of about 25 coming in. Where we are going to put them I don't know, but we have got to have room, and I think the situation is very similar in other schools around the bay area.

Buildings need renovation. New buildings are needed to be erected. I think we need better and additional facilities.

Being a fisherman in the summertime, I can agree with these folks. Although I don't fish here, I have certainly seen their problems and the former testimonies have certainly been accurate in all respects.

Mr. O'Brien. Has there been, according to your observation, any exodus of the younger people from the area because of the declining economy?

Mr. ILAWKINS. There has been some but not a great deal. Many of them would prefer to stay. Some of our young people, of course, quite a large number, gratifyingly large, are going out to attend colleges, and tliese are the people we would like to have an economy that would bring them back to help build up our future. There is no point in educating and exporting youngsters. We would like to see an economy here that would support them, that would bring them back into the area and help build up the general overall economy.

Mr. O'BRIEN. You agree with the previous witnesses that the economy is possible here under proper legislation and regulations!

Nr. IİAWKINS. From my observation, I would say it was.
Mr. BARTLETT. Mrs. Pfost, do you have any questions?
Mrs. PFOST. No.
Mr. BARTLETT. Mr. Utt?
Mr. UTT. No.
Mr. BARTLETT. Dr. Taylor ?
Mr. TAYLOR. I have a question, yes.

Will you give us a rather brief racial background of the children in your school?

Mr. HAWKINS. In our school, as near as I know-this is not something that we inquire into a great deal. We try to minimize any difference in our children. We feel that this is the closest we have seen to a true democracy as far as any feeling of racial segregation or racial feeling. However, I would estimate that perhaps we have 10 percent or less all white and the rest are of what is called the native folks to some degree. I am not sure of the basic background. I think it is probably a mixture of llent and Eskimo and Indian.

Mr. TAYLOR. I think that is certainly fine to have a feeling of complete integration here in your school program. Is that right?

Mr. HAWKINS. That is correct.

I would like to bring up one point which that calls to mind, the fact that the Alaska Native Service to some extent in the past has discriminated against the white children in school. For instance, last year we had a fluoride team come through which was to paint the teeth of the children. It was sponsored by the Alaska Native Service, and we gave them a room in the school to operate. I assumed





they were going to take all the children, and it wasn't until it was under way several days that I discovered only the native children were being taken. It isn't that we want something for nothing in the way of white folks here. We would be very happy to pay for any treatment that our folks get, but we would like to see them get treatment, too, without having to spend $300 to go to Anchorage, but get the treatment here.

Mr. O'Brien. You people here apparently do not like discrimination whether it is against whites or anyone else.

Mr. HAWKINS. That is right.
Mr. O'Brien. That is very refreshing.

Mr. HAWKINS. I think things will improve because the hospital at
Naknek has been taken over by the Public Health Service.

Mr. O'BRIEN. I would say for the Alaska Native Service, that regulation was not because of discrimination but because of regulation which had another purpose.

Mr. HAWKINS. That is correct. We hope the next time they will treat all children without regard to race.

Mr. O'BRIEN. You don't think of any distinction unless some committee or someone else comes along and asks the question.

Mr. HAWKINS. That is a good point.

Mr. TAYLOR. Up at Nome the other day we found out there were some of the children, or a fairly sizable proportion of the children that might be tubercular. Do you have any evidence that you have a high incidence or low incidence of tubercular children in school?

Mr. HAWKINS. In our school we have a very low incidence.
Mr: TAYLOR. To what do you attribute that?

Mr. HAWKINS. I attribute it to nearness of the Naknek Hospital and also the very active antituberculosis program carried out in our area in the last 5 years. I think that all of the cases of active TB have been isolated and have been receiving treatment in our area. That is in Dillingham itself. I won't say for the outlying areas.

Mr. Taylor. Has Dillingham had mobile X-ray units come through from time to time?

Mr. HAWKINS. No; it hasn't been necessary in Dillingham because we are that close to the hospital where we can end our children to get the X-rays done.

I should mention also that we have had recently a number of children come back from hospitals cured of TB and coming back to our school now, and they are carrying on in fine shape.

Mr. O'BRIEN. Then tuberculosis is not something that has just got to be accepted in Alaska?

Mr. HAWKINS. Absolutely not.

Mr. O'BRIEN. It can be driven out with proper living, care, and so forth?

Mr. Hawkins. Yes, indeed; but not if we are going to get to that point in curing them and then send them back into the conditions where they contracted TB in the first place. Let's get the living conditions so we can all look forward to a greater future.

Mr. BARTLETT. You spoke about the new school already being too small, an APW school. Is that right?

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