Mr. O'BRIEN. Why was Mr. Rain's name deleted? Did he change his mind?

Miss STUART. Because he made a statement in the newspaper I had secured his name under false pretenses, and that is a lie. Every page in this petition has a heading on it. I was very careful about that, and every person was required to read it before they signed it.

Mr. ABBOTT. You have quoted the text of the petition accurately, and the reference would simply be in the record, Mr. Chairman, she has 1,400 signatures on it.

Mrs. GREEN. Are those names certified? Have they been checked by anyone?

Miss STUART. No, I don't think so, just myself. I took most of the names myself. I know they are voters.

I will tell you the kind of people they are doctors, lawyers, merchants, legislators, bankers, miners, truckers, radio, newspaper, undertaker, artists, fliers, surgeons, longshoremen, housewives, farmers, clerks, fishermen, all kinds of people.

Mr. O'BRIEN. Would you not say, Miss Stuart, their interest in the matter is rather slight and none of those 1,400 who signed, or certainly not more than 2 or 3 ever took the trouble to write to me as chairman of the subcommittee which has the bill in charge to say they were opposed to statehood?

Miss STUART. I think they sort of depend on your judgment.
Mr. DAWSON. These people are opposed to statehood?

Miss STUART. No, they are not. Some of them are very eager for statehood, some very much opposed, some want commonwealth; but they all believe in the right of the people to be heard by ballot. They want to be given their opportunity by ballot to indicate their wishes. Mr. DAWSON. The sense of the petition is they want a referendum? Miss STUART. That is true.

Mr. DAWSON. And are not taking sides one way or another? Miss STUART. No. They are people who believe in the American system of letting the people have the final authority.

Mr. O'BRIEN. Has there been a referendum?

Miss STUART. There was one held 9 years ago in 1946.
Mr. O'BRIEN. That was in favor of immediate statehood?

Miss STUART. No. It was a very general question. It was just statehood.

Mr. ABBOTT. You did indicate, I believe, you have underlined the word "immediate" in this question.

Miss STUART. Yes.

I would like to throw a question in your record, if I might.

When was it held?

The answer is 9 years ago, 1946.

Would we ask that Germany or any other country be guided by a referendum 9 years old?

How did it come out?

How many judicial divisions are there in Alaska? Four. In favor, 2; against, 2.

That is a diversion of opinion.

The total vote cast on the question was 16,452. In favor, 59 percent, 9,630. Less than 10,000. Against, 41 percent, 6,822.

Mrs. GREEN. Mr. Chairman, may I interrupt here?

Are you opposed to statehood, Miss Stuart?

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Miss STUART. I am opposed to statehood until the moment the people have indicated by this vote they want it. If the people want it, I want it.

Mrs. GREEN. Were you a resident here in 1946?

Miss STUART. I have been a resident since 1940.

Mrs. GREEN. That referendum in 1946 did show the majority favored statehood?

Miss STUART. It showed-well, it was a question on the ballot we didn't realize what was going to be on there. The people marked it hit or miss, I believe. I may be wrong.

Mrs. GREEN. That is a matter of opiniɔn.

Miss STUART. That is right.

Mrs. GREEN. You say as soon as the majority say they would favor statehood-would you favor it?

Miss STUART. Now we have had an opportunity to discuss it, yes. It has been on radio and newspapers.

Mrs. GREEN. Did you favor statehood in 1946 when the referendum showed the majority did?

Miss STUART. No, because there had been little discussion up here.
Mrs. GREEN. You are not opposed to statehood?

Miss STUART. I am not opposed to statehood in principle at all. I have been in different States and think it is the finest way of government there is.

Mrs. GREEN. Are you employed or do you receive contributions or receive fees or do you receive any money from any group?

Miss STUART. No. I went to Washington asking that they would let us have this referendum here first, and my way was raid by 35 people who live in this town. A clothing store, ladies' clothing. The two hotels put in some money. A maid in the hotel put in some. A clinic put in some. A hardware store put in some. Just different people around here. They realized maybe someone should go down and say something. So they sent me.. They paid my airplane ticket and I paid my own expenses.

Mrs. GREEN. You do not officially represent any group?

Miss STUART. Only the people on the petition that want a
referendum.

Mr. BARTLETT. Miss Stuart, your only role in Washington then
was in urging Congress to see to it that a referendum was provided?
That was the only thing you did there in connection with statehood?
Miss STUART. Personally, I brought out the point that our-all I
did when I went to Washington, I took all the factual information I
could with me.
I took our voting records with me. I have them here.
Mr. BARTLETT. But it is a fact, is it not, that while in Washington
you were actively opposing statehood?

Miss STUART. I told them that personally I did not think we could
afford it, and I showed them these records. But I did not speak for
other people in opposition. For other people I spoke on the fact
they wanted a referendum.

Mrs. GREEN. Then you are opposed to statehood?

Miss STUART. I am until we have that referendum.

Mrs. GREEN. You just made the statement you were opposed to it, you told the people in Washington you were opposed to it because you did not think you could afford it.

Miss STUART. I gave them a lot of reasons.

Mrs. GREEN. Then you did oppose statehood when you were in Washington?

Miss STUART. Yes, I did oppose statehood.

Mrs. GREEN. Then you are opposed to statehood?

Miss STUART. No, I am not opposed to statehood. I am not opposed in principle.

Mrs. GREEN. I am still not clear. You have gone to Washington and you opposed statehood.

Miss STUART. That is true until we have the referendum.

Mrs. GREEN. Did you make the statement to them you were opposing it until you had the referendum? Or did you make the statement you opposed it because you felt you could not finance. it and other reasons as you just indicated?

Miss STUART. I gave the reasons that I thought there would possibly be a vote against it instead of for it and that because we do not have the population to support it.

Mrs. GREEN. In your opinion you do not think you have the population?

Miss STUART. I think probably our population is a little less small. Mr. ABBOTT. Are you

Miss STUART. Do you care what I think particularly? I don't give a hoot what I think. It is what the people of Alaska think is important.

Mr. O'BRIEN. How many people are there in Alaska?

Miss STUART. It is estimated around 200,000.

Mr. O'BRIEN. How many signatures do you have there?

Miss STUART. I have 5 percent of our voters. Our voters number 27,553. And isn't the American voting record approximately 50 percent of the eligible voters?

We have 27,553. That would mean about 50,000 eligible voters if we were to go by the same basis.

(Off the record.)

Mr. O'BRIEN. I would say that most any Member of Congress who would be elected by 59 percent of the vote cast in his district would feel he was quite popular.

Miss STUART. I know that. However, I would like to bring you a few facts.

The facts were 9 years ago in 1946 that 2 of our divisions were against and 2 for, and that less than 10,000 votes had been cast in favor.

That we are supposed to have a population of 200,000 people. The 1950 census showed our population was 128,643, and in that report of the census say there were 60,000 people over 21 who were residents of Alaska, of whom 14,000 are aboriginal Aleuts, Eskimos, and Indians, 13,000 Government employees.

Mr. O'BRIEN. You say the population of Alaska is considerably larger than it was 9 years ago when you had the referendum? Miss STUART. Of course.

Mr. O'BRIEN. Would that not be a greater reason for statehood? Miss STUART. It might be, but let them vote. They never have had an opportunity. Many people have come here since and never had a chance to vote on the question.

Mr. BARTLETT. Would not they have an opportunity to express their views on statehood when they vote for or against the constitution which will be presented to them after the coming convention?

Miss STUART. Mr. Bartlett, we have just elected delegates to the constitutional convention. However, a vote on whether we want a good constitution or don't want a good constitution is not whether we want immediate statehood even if divided or immediate statehood only if kept intact.

Mr. BARTLETT. Were you a candidate for delegate to the constitutional convention?

Miss STUART. Yes, I was, and I belong to no party.

Mr. BARTLETT. One of your principal issues was the question of referendum, was it not?

Miss STUART. I didn't make any issue.

Mr. BARTLETT. You did not discuss it?

Miss STUART. The only issue was I wanted our constitution based on solid American principles, representative government, and all of that.

Mr. BARTLETT. It was. well known by the voters that you favor this referendum?

Miss STUART. I am sure they know how I stand.
I don't even
belong to any club groups, and without belonging to either party,
I think I did extremely well in that election. Those people wouldn't
have voted for me unless they believed in what I stood for.

Mr. BARTLETT. Where did you get most of those signatures?
Miss STUART. Sixty-two different communities in Alaska-Sitka,
Mt. Edgecumbe, Juneau, Petersburg, Douglas, Wrangell, Port
Alexander, Yakutat, Point Barrow-

Mrs. GREEN. May I interrupt here? You personally secured those from the 62 towns?

Miss STUART. Not all. There are 60 or 70 secured by a lady in Sitka.

Mrs. GREEN. You secured the other 1,300 by yourself?

Miss STUART. No. I should say I secured probably 1,200 of them. Mrs. GREEN. Then you have done considerable traveling around the Territory?

Miss STUART. Yes.

Mrs. GREEN. Do you pay your own expense on that or another group?

Miss STUART. I pay all my own expenses.

Mr. ABBOTT. Where you show a column on years, "1 year," "3 years," that is not the age of the voter, that is the period of residence in the Territory?

Miss STUART. Yes; name, period of residence, and address.

When in Juneau I made this in duplicate. I took one copy and gave it to the Senate Committee on Interior and Insular Affairs here 2 years ago. I gave them all I had at the time. I mailed the rest in. The other copy I brought to our own legislature because I understand the American way of doing things is, under article I of the Bill of Rights you may petition your Government. So I took the petition legislature and asked them to introduce a bill. The senate was good enough to introduce a bill. It went through several processes, and finally the last day left hanging on second reading. But the house members, nobody would introduce it in the house. In fact, some utterly refused to look at the petition of their own people.

to our

Mr. ABBOTT. Is not that the democratic process? You have elected representatives in the Territory of Alaska, and if in the col

lective judgment of those people who have been elected in a two-house system, they either do not feel they could support a measure that would provide for referendum or are not interested in the measure-are you perhaps premising your argument on the basis this would be a democratic process only to have a referendum? Is that not peculiarly in the control of the duly elected legislature in the first instance?

Miss STUART. Surely, but some of the States have referendums. If the legislature is unwilling or unable to pass a measure, then the people

Mr. O'BRIEN. Not all our States. New York does not.

Miss STUART. New York does not?

Mr. O'BRIEN. I don't think it ever will.

Miss STUART. Most of the Western States do and they all came in after 1950, except five, to have it.

Mr. DAWSON. New York got in early.

Miss STUART. It certainly did.

Mr. O'BRIEN. I am sure you are aware how easy it is to get signatures for petitions, including most anything, including one's own execution. That was done by the New York Sun. I forget how many signatures they got.

Mr. UTT. As far as California is concerned, the referendum is the bane of our existence. We get about 40 screwball petitions every year and it results in a hodgepodge of legislation.

Mrs. GREEN. May I ask this question: Was anyone elected to the constitutional convention with a platform or plank or pleading against statehood, arguing against statehood?

Miss STUART. I don't think so.

Mrs. GREEN. Was anyone elected to the constitutional convention who had as part of his platform or plank the need for a referendum? Miss STUART. I doubt it.

Mr. O'BRIEN. Was anyone elected to the legislature on such a plank or platform?

Miss STUART. I doubt it. I don't think anyone ran on that platform.

Mr. O'BRIEN. And there is no great demand, is there? You had to go out and get those signatures and, I presume, did a little missionary work while you were gathering them, which is proper. But there was no great rush of people to you to sign the petition. They must of known it was there.

Miss STUART. I don't know.

Mr. O'BRIEN. Do you really believe that the majority of the people in Alaska want to defer statehood until there is a referendum?

Miss STUART. I honestly can't speak for the people, but I should think they could. I don't think anyone can speak for the people and bind them unless by election and an absolutely true referendum.

Mr. O'BRIEN. We are doing it constantly in Congress every time we pass a bill.

Miss STUART. This is an awfully important matter. It will cost a great deal of money and

Mr. O'BRIEN. So are they.

Miss STUART. We have got to have every single soul

Mr. O'BRIEN. The first bill I voted on in Congress, my dear lady, was for an appropriation of $40 billion, and we did not have a refer