Imágenes de páginas
PDF
EPUB

`

Governor HEINTZLEMAN. That is right.

Mr. BARTLETT. And it has not had a report, either. Do you know the position of the administration?

Governor HEINTZLEMAN. I do not. May I speak a bit about the tidelands, Mr. Chairman?

I think it is extremely important that the Territory of Alaska be given the tidelands and I do not know enough about how far out to sea we should go on submerged lands. So I am not talking about that. I am talking about the land between high and low tide which has always gone to every State automatically when it came into the Union. As I said in this statement of mine, a large share of the capital invested in Alaska, whether in private homes or in industry, is adjacent or on these tide flats and these big industries that I have been working on, the big industries particularly, I will say, they must get fee simple title to the land before they can finance. They cannot finance through these big investment houses and life insurance companies until they own the land on which these improvements are going to stand.

In the case of Wrangell, recently this sawmill being put in there found it necessary to ask us to support a bill in Congress to get them title to 45 acres of tideland. And that was to process Government timber, too. It certainly seems foolish to have to go to Congress every time anyone wants a small piece of tideland.

Another very important thing is this: A large share or I should maybe say a substantial share of the homes along the coast of Alaska, these coastal towns, is on tidelands. It is true some of the areas have been filled in but they are tideflats just the same and those people, of course, cannot get title to their properties. And it is extremely important that we do have these people get fee simple title to their lands.

Then another thing is, too, this would bring in a considerable revenue to the Territory. It is the kind of a thing that I think we can handle very, very easily. It is not inaccessible. It is not scattered all over the country, all over the interior. And it would help us tremendously if that money were made available to supplement the money that we would get from other sources to maintain the Territorial government.

The same thing applies to these grants of upland that I have mentioned, from three to five thousand acres, is the unit-giving us one unit, we will say, presently, and another one when we feel the need of more land because we used up the first unit. It not only would give us more money but I am just as confident as I sit hereand gentlemen, I have had many years of experience in Alaska in the management of land-I was in the Forest Service here for many years and we had charge of 20 million acres of land and I know some of the difficulties of trying to get quick action on the alienation of land, taking up private holdings through the Federal Government. I think the Territory could do a much better job and I would like to see us given a chance to try it.

Mr. ABBOTT. Governor, relating some of the recommendations you are making to the statehood bill considered in the 1st session of the 84th Congress, H. R. 2535, and you referred specifically to some of its provisions-are you taking the position that if the Congress is willing to make those grants to the Territory with a formal statehood bill, then as you go forward toward that goal of statehood you feel they

might be made notwithstanding the fact that the statehood was not passed?

Governor HEINTZLEMAN. If statehood was itself passed under this bill we have just mentioned, of course, we would get better than 103 million acres of land.

Mr. ABBOTT. I was coming to that point. The bill specifically provides, of course, for the extension of Public Law 31 of the 83d Congress, the Submerged Lands Act of 1953, to the Territory of Alaska. With or without statehood, you would urge that that provision be adopted by Congress?

Governor HEINTZLEMAN. As I said, I was not thinking so much of submerged land, whether 3-mile limit or 10-mile limit, whatever it is, as I was to the lands covered and uncovered by the incoming and outgoing tide.

Mr. ABBOTT. Then with respect to the 103 million plus acres, a provision was included which would provide for the selection of 400,000 acres of national forest lands?

Governor HEINTZLEMAN. Yes.

Mr. ABBOTT. You would urge that grant selection be made too, with or without the statehood legislation as such?

Governor HEINTZLEMAN. I do not think it makes very much difference. Of course, the way the statehood bill reads, the Secretary of Agriculture and the Territory would have to agree on that and I think that is a very wise precaution. I do not want to break up any great big sustained yield timber units in granting this 400,000 acres. And in my opinion, this is just my personal opinion, this 400,000 acres should be split up so that you are giving some of the land around each one of these towns.

Mr. ABBOTT. You have an additional provision for some 400,000 acres to be selected adjacent to communities?

Governor HEINTZLEMAN. That is right, from public domain.
Mr. ABBOTT. Yes.

Governor HEINTZLEMAN. I was thinking about the national forest areas we were talking about a minute ago. When they say "national forest lands," they mean 400,000 acres of national forest land adjacent to these towns on the south coast. I think it would be very possible for the Department of Agriculture, that is, the Forest Service, and the Territory to work out some plan by which that 400,000 acres being made available to the Territory would be immensely valuable to these communities and also to the Territory as a whole.

Mr. ABBOTT. Similarly, you have about 2 million acres, something, I believe fifty or sixty thousand acres over 21⁄2 million, for schools, penitentiaries, et cetera.

Governor HEINTZLEMAN. Yes.

Mr. ABBOTT. Again, would you urge that that selection be permitted independent of action on statehood, to be included in the gross acreage? Governor HEINTZLEMAN. It would be included in part of the 103 million acres, I believe.

Mr. O'BRIEN. Governor, you propose to do gradually what would be done instantly if a statehood law was passed.

Governor HEINTZLEMAN. Exactly. I think it would give us training and experience in the handling of public land laws and at the same time bring in more money.

Mr. O'BRIEN. And also prove to Congress your capacity for statehood which has been challenged by some people.

Governor HEINTZLEMAN. Exactly.

Mr. O'BRIEN. Mr. Green.

Mrs. GREEN. You mentioned the land grant should be fairly moderate in size. In the original Alaska mental health bill the provision was for 500,000 acres. That was amended and changed to a million. What is your thought on that? Do you think a million is too large a grant there?

Governor HEINTZLEMAN. It authorizes a grant over a period of 10 years, does it not? I think it is all right.

Mr. ABBOTT. On one other point, Governor, so it will be clear on the record. H. R. 2535, as reported by the committee and considered on the House floor before being recommitted during the 1st session, would have brought the Territory of Alaska under the Federal Road Act of 1916, and in your view, absent the accompanying grants, that would be premature?

Governor HEINTZLEMAN. Yes.

Mr. ABBOTT. There are substantial provisions over a period of years for grants to the Territory of Alaska and you would not only not gain but you would lose, as I understand your position, if you were brought under the terms of the Federal Road Act without accompanying grants by the Federal Government?

Governor HEINTZLEMAN. That is correct. If we came under the Federal Aid Road Act before statehood were granted, we would have to have some of these special provisions put in to take care of main

tenance.

Mr. DAWSON. If it came in after statehood was granted, you would still have to have special provisions because the formula for the Road Act would not benefit you one single bit.

Governor HEINTZLEMAN. That is correct, but the statehood bill takes care of it by authorizing funds for roads over 10 or 15 years. Mr. DAWSON. You would probably have to go beyond 10 or 15 years with some other program, too.

Governor HEINTZLEMAN. We hope by that time the Territory will have grown to the point where it would come under the formula without any special provisions. Some of these things are working out and they look very promising. I think in 15 years we would be able to go on our own.

(Discussion off the record.)

Mr. ABBOTT. On the commercial fisheries question, Governor: If it is asserted that the Territory of Alaska presently does not have an existing agency to perform the responsibilities which would pass to it if it achieved control of its commercial fisheries, what would your response be to that?

Governor HEINTZLEMAN. Of course, you know it has an organization now which could take it over, the Territorial Department of Fisheries. But that would have to expand very materially to do it. Mr. ABBOTT. Do you feel you could obtain the necessary biologists and other personnel you would need?

Governor HEINTZLEMAN. I said in the statement, I think, that many of the men who are already working up here for Fish and Wildlife Service would transfer over to the Territorial agency.

Mr. ABBOTT. If it is asserted that, notwithstanding the ability personnelwise and technologywise of the Territory to perform that responsibility, there are problems peculiar to our international responsibility, particularly, on fisheries and peculiar to the nature of the Territory of Alaska which would tend to augur against that grant, what would your response be to that?

Governor HEINTZLEMAN. I would say that these very Commissions that are now working under these international treaties should continue their work just the same, their research organizations. I refer to North Pacific Fisheries Commission. I refer to the Halibut Commission.

Mr. ABBOTT. They would continue their present function?
Governor HEINTZLEMAN. That is true.

Mr. ABBOTT. And the management of migratory waterfowl under various international treaties would not be interferred with?

Governor HEINTZLEMAN. No.

Mr. ABBOTT. Whatever is said with respect to commercial fisheries, I assume your position would be the same on control of your wildlife? Governor HEINTZLEMAN. Yes.

Mr. ABBOTT. Would there be funding problems with respect to local control?

I

Governor HEINTZLEMAN. I cannot tell you. I cannot tell you. do not know enough about the revenues that are coming into the Fish and Wildlife Service in the Territory to say whether or not we would find it difficult to carry on that function. I know one thing, that the legislature this last time asked Congress to transfer fish and wildlife work over to them. You may recall that memorial we had in from the Territorial legislature. So apparently the Territorial legislature thinks they would not have any trouble financing it.

Mr. ABBOTT. One further question. I believe there has been an urging from the Territory and through Delegate Bartlett's office that the question of the Pribilof sealeries revenues and receipts be studied to the end that the Territory of Alaska might receive a greater share of those. Could you state briefly what your position is on that, or a little background on it?

Governor HEINTZLEMAN. I think the attempt has been to give us 50 percent of the proceeds, of the American share of the proceeds from the Pribilof Islands. I certainly would like, of course, to see that done.

Mr. O'BRIEN. I think we will recess now until 1:30.

(Whereupon, at 12:05 p. m., a recess was taken until 1:30 p. m., of this same day.)

AFTERNOON SESSION

Mr. O'BRIEN. The meeting will be in order.
Governor, will you return to the witness table.

STATEMENT OF HON. B. FRANK HEINTZLEMAN, GOVERNOR OF
ALASKA-Resumed

Mrs. GREEN. I had two points I would like to come back to, Mr. Chairman. On this mental-health bill again, I referred this morning to the grant of 500,000 or a million acres of land. There is a serious question in my mind whether this bill can get through Con

at

of

t,

S

gress with a grant of a million acres because of certain statements that have been made by the Budget Bureau. In your opinion, Governor, would it be possible to finance this on the 500,000 acres of land?

Governor HEINTZLEMAN. Well, I think it would go quite a ways toward doing it. We would have to select the lands pretty carefully so that they would immediately produce enough money in order to take care of the Alaska share of the cost of mental-health treatment. Certainly I would settle for 500,000.

Mrs. GREEN. Do you think it should be spread out over a 10-year period?

Governor HEINTZLEMAN. Yes, I think that is all right.

Mrs. GREEN. Do you think that would be preferable to a 5-year period?

Governor HEINTZLEMAN. For this reason: You see, we are still in a process of growth and this is a big country and we do not know where the centers of population and centers of the industrial development might be in the next 10 years. I would hate to select the land now in 3 or 5 years and then find out later if we had waited a while we could have gotten more high-class lands around some new center of industry or mining that might have sprung up in the meantime. So I think the 10 years is all right. That is the total time we should have to select them. If for any reason we wanted to select them earlier, we could do that.

Mrs. GREEN. There was also some discussion in the committee of whether or not this land should be earmarked for the care of the mentally ill. What is your opinion in regard to that?

Governor HEINTZLEMAN. I would rather see it the other way. I think that if we had this land and it was producing revenue going into the general fund, certainly everyone would feel there was an obligation to put as much money out of that as needed or as we could get into mental health work.

Mrs. GREEN. Do you not think the history has been in many of the States those moneys have been dissipated and they have gone into other things?

Governor HEINTZLEMAN. I do not know that, Mrs. Green.

Mrs. GREEN. I had one other question. You spoke this morning of the tidelands, the land between high and low tide and giving title to individuals. That is your recommendation, is it?

Governor HEINTZLEMAN. Giving the lands to the State and then the State would decide whether it was going to give title also to individuals or long-term leases. In many cases we would want to give absolute title.

Mrs. GREEN. You think that is preferable to the long-term leases? Governor HEINTZLEMAN. In certain cases. If we were going to put up a $50 million pulp mill on a plant site, I think we should give title to it to help them finance. Of course, we would never want to take it back.

Mrs. GREEN. If you have a definite policy, though, on leases, you are not subjected to tremendous pressures from individuals; are you? Governor HEINTZLEMAN. I think that we would have to outline a policy which states under what conditions we were going to give title and what conditions we were going to give leases. Take, as I said this morning, the question of homes. We have hundreds and

« AnteriorContinuar »