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Mr. KINNAMON. The colored people.

Senator FONG. When you say that, do you mean the ownership; do you refer to the ownership?

Mr. KINNAMON. Yes, sir; the ownership and occupancy.

Senator FONG. The stores that were burned were owned by Negroes.
Mr. KINNAMON. Yes, sir.

Senator FONG. And the homes that were burned were owned by Negroes.

Mr. KINNAMON. Yes, sir.

Senator FONG. Did any white person suffer any damage?

Mr. KINNAMON. I believe one of the homes was owned by a white person. I could not say for sure. I believe it was.

Senator FONG. What is the estimation of the damage?

Mr. KINNAMON. $240,000.

Senator FONG. Thank you.

The CHAIRMAN. Senator Thurmond. Strom, do you want to start now? We are going to have to vote at 1 o'clock. Would you rather start now or when we reconvene?

Senator THURMOND. Either way. I really do not have questions that will take more than 2 or 3 minutes.

The CHAIRMAN. Go ahead.

Senator THURMOND. Chief Kinnamon, I want to say that I do not think there is any class of public servants in America today who are more abused, whose life and limb is placed more in jeopardy and who are trying to protect the safety of our citizens more than our law enforcement officers. I have tremendous confidence in them, and I have tremendous sympathy right now with what they are going through.

Senator Dirksen and others have asked most of the questions I have in mind. I just have one or two questions here I would like to ask you. Have you had the opportunity to talk with some of those people who have been arrested who participated in the riot?

Mr. KINNAMON. Yes, sir; I have.

Senator THURMOND. Have they told you why they participated?
Mr. KINNAMON. Well, as a direct result of the speech.

Senator THURMOND. I had to go to another committee meeting this morning, the defense appropriations.

What was said in that speech that caused them to be incited to such an extent that they participated?

Mr. KINNAMON. Well, it is a highly inflammatory speech. He advocates the burning of the town and looting. He refers to other cities where this has happened, and he refers to the police and wants them killed. He refers to police in Plainfield, N.J., who was killed, how it was done, and it is just the type of speech that would work up people. Senator THURMOND. Do you know of anything that the city of Cambridge or the people there failed to do that could have been a cause of the riot?

Mr. KINNAMON. No, sir; I do not.

Senator THURMOND. Do you know of anything that they do that could have been a cause of the riot?

Mr. KINNAMON. No, sir.

Senator THURMOND. I believe you stated that in your opinion this riot was well planned, well organized, and well executed?

Mr. KINNAMON. Yes, sir.

Senator THURMOND. Would you say that those who live in the Negro section of Cambridge are poor people or about average citizens? Mr. KINNAMON. I think they are average or above.

Senator THURMOND. Is there a section, you might say, of poor white people?

Mr. KINNAMON. Yes, sir.

Senator THURMOND. Have you had any trouble from that section similar to that which you have had from the Negro section? Mr. KINNAMON. No, sir.

Senator THURMOND. This is the first trouble you have had since 1963. Mr. KINNAMON. Yes, sir.

Senator THURMOND. Do you feel that this was caused chiefly by outsiders coming in, planning, organizing this riot, or do you think it sprang from within, from among those who live there?

Mr. KINNAMON. I think it was from outside.

Senator THURMOND. From outside.

Mr. KINNAMON. Yes, sir.

Senator THURMOND. I believe you told Senator Dirksen that you did not feel this riot was caused from the lack of employment or lack of housing or the lack of recreation facilities.

Mr. KINNAMON. Yes, sir.

Senator THURMOND. Could it have been caused from the lack of adequate schools or any other reason that you know of?

Mr. KINNAMON. Personally I think this is something that is spreading over the country. I think it is brought on by irresponsible people, people that receive recognition through their activities and probably reward.

Senator THURMOND. And you do not think the lack of adequate schools or any other reason that you know of caused the riotsMr. KINNAMON. We have the finest schools

Senator THURMOND (continuing). In Cambridge.

Mr. KINNAMON. We have the finest schools in the State of Maryland. Senator THURMOND. Are you taking precautions in the future to improve your intelligence system or that you feel your intelligence system was adequate in this instance?

Mr. KINNAMON. I think it was adequate; yes, sir.

Senator THURMOND. Is there anything that you felt you could have done to have prevented the riot that you did not do?

Mr. KINNAMON. No, sir. I think the State officials are aware of the situation and it is just a question of how long it takes to get to Maryland.

Senator THURMOND. Do you feel that this law that is being proposed on riots is needed and will help in a situation of this kind? Mr. KINNAMON. Well, I think it is a step in the right direction. I think something has to be done to restore law and order to this Nation, and I think the hour is getting late.

Senator THURMOND. Can you tell the committee of any other suggestions you have that might help in this matter? I have not had a chance to be here during the entire hearing.

Mr. KINNAMON. Of course something has got to be done to bring the people to realize what is going on in this Nation and to return respect for law and order and for the police of this Nation.

Senator THURMOND. Did the police in this instance seem to be a target of the rioters?

Mr. KINNAMON. Yes, sir.

Senator THURMOND. Were the firemen targets also?

Mr. KINNAMON. The firemen did not get into the area, sir. It was secured by the police.

Senator THURMOND. I believe the time is up.

Mr. Chairman, I will stop. Thank you very much.

The CHAIRMAN. Did Brown say this: "It is time for Cambridge to explode, baby."

Mr. KINNAMON. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. "Black folks built America, and if America does not come around we are going to burn America down."

Mr. KINNAMON. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. "You had better get yourself some guns. The man is out to get you.'

Mr. KINNAMON. Yes, sir.

Senator DIRKSEN. One question. How long have you lived in Cambridge?

Mr. KINNAMON. My entire life, sir.

Senator DIRKSEN. How long have you been chief of police?

Mr. KINNAMON. Twelve years. I have been in law enforcement all my life practically.

The CHAIRMAN. We will have an open hearing in this room at 2:30. (Whereupon, at 1 p.m., the committee recessed, to reconvene at 2:30 p.m. the same day.)

AFTERNOON SESSION

The CHAIRMAN. Let's have order. Chief of Police Jacob W. Schott of Cincinnati.

STATEMENT OF HON. DONALD D. CLANCY, A U.S. REPRESENTATIVE

FROM THE SECOND DISTRICT OF THE STATE OF OHIO

Mr. CLANCY. Mr. Chairman and members of the committee, it is a distinct pleasure for me to present to this fine committee a member of the Cincinnati Police Department for over 30 years, a police department that has distinguished itself and has been recognized by other departments throughout the country on numerous occasions, having served other departments and helped reorganize many of the police departments throughout the Nation.

This gentleman has had a most distinguished career. He is now our chief of police in Cincinnati, and it is with great pride and pleasure that I present to you Col. Jacob W. Schott, chief of police of the city of Cincinnati.

The CHAIRMAN. You are a Congressman?

Mr. CLANCY. Yes, I am.

The CHAIRMAN. Identify yourself for the record.

STATEMENT OF HON. ROBERT TAFT, JR., A U.S. REPRESENTATIVE

FROM THE FIRST DISTRICT OF THE STATE OF OHIO

Mr. TAFT. I am Robert Taft, also from the district which Chief Schott serves, and I second the welcome given to him by Congressman Clancy, his tremendous ability, and the ability of his police department.

The CHAIRMAN. Chief, would you hold your hand up. Do you solemnly swear that the testimony that you are about to give is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you, God? Mr. SCHOTT. I do.

The CHAIRMAN. State your name and title for the record, please.

TESTIMONY OF JACOB W. SCHOTT, CHIEF OF POLICE,
CINCINNATI, OHIO

Mr. SCHOTT. Am I coming through all right, sir?

The CHAIRMAN. Yes.

Mr. SCHOTT. My name is Jacob W. Schott, chief of police of Cincinnati, Ohio. I was born and raised in that community.

The CHAIRMAN. Have you had a riot in Cincinnati?

Mr. SCHOTT. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. When did it take place?

Mr. SCHOTT. The first overt signs of a riot in Cincinnati occurred on the night of Saturday, April 29. At that time Stokely Carmichael was invited to Cincinnati to speak at a church there, and his speech was very inflammatory in nature. He urged the people there, instead of fighting each other, to go out and fight the police. The country was broke through revolution. They have to burn the country down.

Immediately after his speech, riotous conditions existed. Attempts were made to upset police cars. Windows were broken in nearby stores. Motorists passing through the area were stoned, and some fire bombs were thrown. We had expected trouble.

The CHAIRMAN. Fire bombs? You mean a Molotov cocktail? ·

Mr. SCHOTT. Yes, sir. We were successful in making arrests on this night. Brown immediately left town-Carmichael, pardon me. During the period of the next month or so there was quite a bit of tension in the city of Cincinnati. There emerged a group of black power advocates. Up to this time the Negro community was represented by the old line traditional leaders, people in responsible positions, professional people; and these people were completely intimidated, threatenedthat some of them actually moved their families out of the city of Cincinnati.

This black power group made also

The CHAIRMAN. Some of them did-what-out of Cincinnati?

Mr. SCHOTT. Some of these leaders moved their families out of the city of Cincinnati because they had been threatened by people that were advocating black power. This group made many demands on the city. I am going to distribute some information here for your benefit. These demands were that the city get all the white policemen out of colored neighborhoods, that no deliveries be made in the colored neighborhoods by truckdrivers with white drivers, that all businesses in the

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colored areas would have to be bought by colored people and operated by colored people.

On June 12 a group of Negroes started enforcing some of these demands. They stopped trucks coming into the colored area with white truckdrivers, and they told them they would not be allowed to make deliveries or they would be hurt and their trucks upset.

Before I go any further, I would like to state that Cincinnati does not have an area that you could describe as a ghetto. We have seven police districts in Cincinnati, and every one of our districts has some percentage of colored population. The area where this riot really broke forth on June 12 is the section known as Avondale, and this is a very nice neighborhood, tree-lined streets, recreational facilities. But this group advocating black power wanted this to be a totally black enclave, as I said-no white policemen, no white business, or white landlords, so they started stopping these trucks on June 12. One who ran a drugstore there called the police so he could get a drug delivery, and his windows were knocked out.

We were in a siege there from June 12 to June 19, where the police department and the National Guard were totally committed. We had many, many fire bombings. Most of the business places in three or four areas of the city were knocked out. Most of these businesses were operated by white people. The businesses operated by colored people placed signs in the window indicating they were soul brothers, and most of these businesses were spared any violence.

On the night of June 13, conditions got so bad that we had to ask the Governor of Ohio to commit the National Guard, and after their assistance arrived, we were able to regain some control of the streets. When it looked like we had things pretty well under control on June 15, H. Rap Brown came into Cincinnati from Dayton, Ohio, where he appeared the night before, and he started a minor race riot up there. He came to Cincinnati and he appeared at the Black Guard Society in Cincinnati.

They had black guards on the door. They wouldn't allow any white people there, but we did get some intelligence out of there, and he stated that the city of Cincinnati had declared war on the Negro and that they would have to fight back. H. Rap Brown then presented a list of 20 demands. I have supplied that list of 20 demands to you.

The CHAIRMAN. This memorandum will be made a part of the record at the conclusion of this testimony.

Mr. SCHOTT. Some of these demands were, "Get rid of white school administrators; get white merchants out of the black community; release all black prisoners picked up during this crisis; there will be no charges on them and no records; all white landlords out of the black community; and so on, and so on.

When these demands were made to the city council, as unreasonable as they were, why they said, this gave the right to return to the street. Since that time we had another flareup on July 3, 4, and 5. And most recently, we had another flareup on July 27. In that period of time, we had made 405 arrests. The fire damage alone is approaching $3 million. Many of the places burned out of business have indicated they will not relocate in the city of Cincinnati, and many of these places burned out had a heavy percentage of colored employees. One of the places there, this modern laundry-60 out of the 80 employees were colored.