tive interference in these cases was worse than futile, and often the very cause of the distress it sought to remedy; for when the market price of money was higher than the legal price, the lender, who would not part with his property at less than the market price, was obliged in fact to charge much more, in order to indemnify himself against the risk he incurred by lending at higher interest than the law allowed. This indemnity could always be obtained under some subterfuge of premium or commission, and the borrower suffered thus by the very law that so injudiciously interfered for his protection. The interest of money, like the price of every other commodity, should be left to find its own level. Mr. Lockhart thought that a better mode might be devised of answering the hon. and learned gentleman's intention, but still he would not oppose the motion. Leave was given to bring in the bill. PROROGATION OF PARLIAMENT AND STANDING ARMY.] Lord Nugent rose to postpone the motion of which he had given notice for Monday, with respect to the prorogation of parliament, with regard to which, his opinion was by no means changed by what the House had heard on a former evening from the Chancellor of the Exchequer, and as to the proposed peace establishment, especially the maintenance of a standing army in a foreign nation, his mind still retained the same impression as he had before expressed with respect to its constitutional policy and practical expediency. But he reserved the right of bringing those questions under the consideration of the House on a future occasion. The noble lord was proceeding, when The Speaker interfered, and submitted to the noble lord, that any observations in the present instance, would not be strictly regular according to the custom of the House. Lord Nugent then put off his notice, without mentioning the day on which he meant to bring forward his promised motion. Sinecure OFFICE OF THE LATE EARL OF BUCKINGHAMSHIRE.] Mr. Brougham asked the right hon. Secretary for Ireland, if he had yet ascertained whether there was any existing interest in the place occupied by the late lord Buckinghamshire? Mr. Peel replied, that he had ascer(VOL. XXXII.) tained there was no existing interest in the place alluded to; adding, that it was the intention of his majesty's ministers to make a new regulation of that place, in conformity with the Resolution of that House, the terms of which regulation would be submitted to the consideration of parliament. Some delay would, however, necessarily take place in arranging that regulation, as reference must be had to Ireland, where a general inquiry was going on with respect to the several courts of that country. Mr. Brougham reminded the right hon. gentleman, that according to the Resolu tion of 1810, the place referred to was not to be regulated like other places, that is, reduced from 11 or 12,000l. a year to 3,600/., but to be totally abolished, while the little duty attached to it was to be performed by deputy. Mr. Peel reminded the learned gentleman that there was a precedent resolution in 1810 to that quoted by the learned gentleman, saving the rights of the Crown, and by which provision was made to grant compensation to meritorious officers. Mr. Brougham expressed his determi nation, if any attempt were made to make any grant to the Crown in consequence of the abolition of this enormity, for such he must consider the sinecure alluded to, decidedly to oppose it. As to compensation to officers, nothing of the kind could be pretended on this occasion, as there was no existing interest. Mr. Peel said, that he made no allusion to any grant to the Crown. All he meant to say was, that according to the precedent resolution to which he referred, provision was made to reward or compensate any meritorious officers, whose interest might suffer by the regulation of any of the offices to which the subsequent resolution quoted by the learned gentleman adverted. Mr. Horner observed, that it would be unsatisfactory to regulate, or even abolish, the office by any other mode than by act of parliament, because by no other mode would the public have any security against its revival. SUPPLY.] Mr. Brogden appeared at the bar with the report on the motion "That a supply be granted to his majesty." On the question being put, that the report be brought up, Mr. Tierney rose and observed, that a noble lord whom he did not then see in (2) his place, had said, that the House should | sion of parliament he had himself voted not be called upon to vote any supplies against the supplies generally, but then it till it was in possession of what was to be was because he objected to the war into the intended peace establishment. For which the country was about to be himself, therefore, he should expect that plunged, and therefore he objected to the information to be given previously to supplies which would be necessary to a supply being voted, and if he should carry on that war. On the present occafeel it his duty to oppose any vote of sup- sion there existed no such general principly, it would be on that ground. ple; but, unquestionably, when they came into the committee, he, for one, should oppose the voting of even five pounds until some explanation was given upon the finances of the country, and the intended peace establishment. It would not be correct, however, to oppose generally any supply, and he hoped, therefore, the hon. gentleman behind him would suffer the present question, to go to the vote. Mr. Lushington said, that he had, on the preceding day, in the absence of his right hon. friend, stated, that it was the intention of the chancellor of the exchequer to lay before the House, on the earliest opportunity, a general view of the ways and means for the year; and he had even ventured to name a day when he thought it probable that communication would be made. Meanwhile, the ordinary supplies might be voted in the usual way. Mr. Tierney said, it was the usual way in which the supplies had been voted for some years past to which he objected. The Speaker then put the question, that the report be received, when several members exclaimed, No, no, upon which the gallery was ordered to be cleared; but, Mr. Bathurst rose and observed, that the course which the House seemed in clined to pursue, was certainly a departure from its customary practice. The question then before them did not involve an assent to any particular branch of the supply; it only went so far as to recognise a supply generally; and surely some supply must be granted. If the present report were brought up and received, it would still be open to the right hon. gentleman opposite to object to any specific item that might be proposed, upon the ground that no statement had yet been made of the general finances of the country. Mr. Preston thought it quite right to oppose any grant of money until the House should have ascertained that the country was in a state of solvency. It was proper to teach ministers that lesson which they did not yet seem to have learnt, that they had brought the country to such a situation as to make it improper to go a step further without due information as to her means. Mr. Tierney observed, that as there was no general principle upon which the House could refuse any supply, it might be necessary to reflect a little before they proceeded further in their present opposition. He recollected that in the last ses Sir Gilbert Heathcote said, that the right hon. gentleman had looked at him, as if he were the person who meant to divide the House, which certainly had never been his intention: but if, by concurring in the present vote, he was to be understood as sanctioning any peace establishment which the right hon. gentleman opposite might choose to propose, he would take his ground at once, and resist any supply being voted, for he would never concur in any thing like the peace establishment which he understood it was in contemplation to bring forward. Mr. Sturges Bourne observed, that it was quite unusual to oppose a general vote of supply, merely because the chancellor of the exchequer had not made any statement upon the finances of the country. The gallery was then cleared for a division, and during the exclusion of strangers, Mr. Brougham rose to ask some question, turning upon a declaration made by lord Castlereagh on a former night, when it was observed, that the noble lord not being present, the question ought not to be put. Upon this Mr. Bennet remarked, that it was the duty of the noble lord to attend the sittings of that House during the discussion of public business, and that his absence from it was a mark of disrespect. Mr. Lambton added, that the noble lord was salaried by the public for the discharge of his duty, and his not performing it in that House was both a neglect and an insult. The House did not ultimately divide but the report was received and agreed to. EXTENTS IN AID.] Mr. Preston said, The Marquis of Lansdowne said, that' he wished it to refer to the two last wars. The account was moved for in that form, and ordered accordingly. that the number of processes issued by government in the course of the last year, had been so excessive, that the subject deserved the most serious attention of the House. The evil was so far increased, as to have become truly alarming. In his tour through Devonshire, in the course of last summer, he had learnt, that, in the town of Biddeford alone, 140 of these processes had been issued in the course of the year. Like measures were taking place, he understood, in every other part of the country, and in consequence of this, and the depressed state of agriculture, barns were every where locked up, and the tenants running away. He therefore begged leave to move, "That there be laid before this House, a return of the extents, extents in aid, and other processes of the Crown, either for taxes or other debts, which have been issued in England during the year ending the 1st of February 1816, with the sums for which such extents and processes were awarded." Ordered. HOUSE OF LORDS. Thursday, February 8. THE TREATIES-PEACE ESTABLISHMENT, &c.] The Marquis of Lansdowne gave notice that he would to-morrow move for an account of the peace establishments in the military department, in each year from 1783 to 1792. His lordship afterwards stated that it was of great importance to have this account as speedily as possible, and understanding that there was no objection to it, he would move for an account, first, of the amount of the army in Great Britain, Ireland, and the colonies and plantations, on the 24th of June and 24th of December in each year, from 1783 to 1792; also for an account of the ordnance and engineer establishments, &c. during the same period. The account was ordered-The noble marquis then stated, that if there was no difficulty in making up the account, he would now move, for an account of what was due from France to this country, for prisoners of war, with reference to the last war. The Earl of Liverpool was not aware of any difficulty in making up the account, but wished the noble marquis to state more precisely to what period his account referred; whether merely to the last campaign or not. If it related to the war previous to the last campaign, he would observe that the account had been cancelled by the treaty of 1814. The Marquis of Lansdowne then stated, that he had some questions to put to the noble earl with reference to the treaties, and the documents laid on their lordships table a few days ago; and upon the answer of the noble earl to these questions it would depend whether he should think it necessary to make any motion on the subject. The first question was, whether, between the period of the treaty of the 25th of March, 1815, signed at Vienna, on behalf of the different powers, and the period of the subsequent military occupation of Paris by the allied troops, any communications had passed between the ministers of the several powers, or any agreement had been entered into among them, with respect to the future government of France, in case the operations against Buonaparté should be attended with success? The second question was, whether, at or previous to the military occupation of Paris, any communication had passed between the ministers of, or persons authorized by all or any of the allied powers, and the provisional government established in France at the period of the abdication of Buonaparte? The third question was, whether, in the course of the late negociations between the several powers of Europe, any thing had passed relative to the loan advanced by this country to Austria, and whether any and what arrangements had been made for the repayment of the same? The Earl of Liverpool was anxious to give the noble marquis all the satisfaction in his power relative to the several matters to which his questions referred. And therefore, as to the first question, whether any communications had passed between the different powers as to the future government of France, in case the enterprise against Buonaparté should be successful? he could state, from his general recollection, that no precise communication had passed on that subject during the period to which the noble marquis had adverted. Some information on the point might, he believed, be found in the documents which had been laid on the table. There was some reference, if he recollected rightly,' in these papers, to the eventual restora tion of the Bourbons. He could not take upon him to say whether any and what conversation had taken place on that head Lord King also referred to the protocol for the distribution of the 700 million to be paid by France, observing, that it was there stipulated that Austria and Prussia, on account of pressing exigencies, should, in the first instance, have more than their distributive share of the amount. He wished to know, whether the payment of this anticipation of what they would only be entitled to receive at a future period, was in any way guaranteed by this country? The Earl of Liverpool stated, that the only object of the stipulation was, that Austria and Prussia should, on account of pressing necessity, receive in the first year more than their shares; whilst in the other years England and Russia would receive more than their shares, which would restore the equilibrium. during the period mentioned; but there | thought it had been among the papers bewas nothing in the shape of communica- fore the House, but if not, he would give tion as to that matter. It was notorious, the noble lord information upon the subhowever, that the allies always professed ject to-morrow. a very earnest wish and desire that the Bourbon government should be restored, but without making it a sine quâ non in any negociation for peace with France. He did not know whether this answer would be satisfactory to the noble marquis, but it was all he could at present say upon that matter. There was always an anxious desire on the part of the allies that the Bourbon government should be restored; but they had entered into no sort of agreement, nor was there any thing in the nature of an engagement, to effectuate that object. Then, as to the third question of the noble marquis, relative to the Austrian loan-he supposed the noble marquis alluded to the loan of 1795 or 1796. Nothing had passed on that sub. ject in the course of the late negociations. The Marquis of Lansdowne understood the noble earl as stating that no negociation took place, and that nothing in the nature of an engagement had been entered into between the allies as to the future government of France: if that was so, the consequence must be, that we were perfectly free on that point at the period of the occupation of Paris by the allied troops. As to the other points, it certainly was not satisfactory to him to hear that no communications had passed between the allies and the provisional government of France, because an offer of communication had certainly been made on the part of the provisional government, and he presumed he was to understand that the offer had been rejected. The Earl of Liverpool nodded assent. Lord St. John observing that the convention of Paris was not amongst the papers laid before the House, moved an address to his royal highness the Prince Regent, praying for its production, which was ordered. Lord King observing, that the convention respecting the occupation of a military line in France, referred to an argreement to be entered into by the allies, respecting the specific distribution of that force, and the positions the troops of each power were to occupy, wished to know, whether such an agreement had been concluded, and if so, that it might be laid before the House? The Earl of Liverpool said, such an agreement had been entered into, and he The Duke of Sussex shortly adverted to the subject of a treaty, purporting to have been entered into between Russia, Prussia, and Austria, and signed at Paris on the 26th of September last, in which the subject of religion formed a prominent consideration. He thought some information should be given to parliament on the subject, as to the existence, nature, and extent of the treaty, and wished to know whether it was among the documents laid upon the table, or intended to be commu nicated; and whether the copy which had come before the public was a correct or authentic one. The Earl of Liverpool, was not at the moment prepared precisely to answer the questions of the illustrious Duke. There had been a convention signed between those powers, on the subject to which his royal highness had referred; but whether the copy of the document which was alluded to was a correct one or not, he was unable to say. The Duke of Sussex asked, whether that treaty had been communicated to the government of this country? The Earl of Liverpool answered, that the treaty was officially communicated to the minister of this country at Paris. HOUSE OF COMMONS. Session, for inquiring into the conduct of mad-houses, he was instructed to move the House for leave to bring in a bill for the better Regulation of such establishments. But some gentlemen of the committee being desirous that further investigation should take place, he had acceded to their wish, although the majority of the committee concurred with himself in thinking, that sufficient evidence had already been adduced to justify the proposition of a bill; therefore he should propose, instead of a bill," That a committee be appointed to consider of provision being made for the better regulation of mad-houses in England, and to report the same, with their observations thereupon, to the House."A committee was appointed accordingly.. CONVENTION OF PARIS.] Mr. Bennet asked, whether the noble lord opposite had any objection to lay before the House a copy of the Convention of Paris? Lord Castlereagh replied, that he had no objection to the production of this document, if the bon. member thought proper to move an address for it. Mr. Bennet observed, that there was another document connected with this convention which he also wished to have laid on the table, namely, a copy of the correspondence with the English government respecting the claims of marshal Ney under that convention. Lord Castlereagh said, that the hon. member might to-morrow move for the document alluded to, and that he, in the mean while, would consider the subject. ESTIMATES FOR THE YEAR.] Mr. Lushington moved for the following esti mates for the year 1816-the expense of the ordinary of the navy, and the claims of the marines; the expense of guards and garrisons, and other land forces; the expense of building and repairing ships in the King's yards; the expense of the office of ordinance for land forces; the amount of expense incurred, and not provided for by parliament; the probable expense of the transport service; the amount of what was likely to be wanted for the hire of transports, together with a return of the debt of the navy for 1815. Mr. Tierney complained that the annual account of the income and expenditure of the country was seldom produced till after Easter, though those accounts were always made up by the 5th of January: one or two papers of little importance might, he admitted, be sometimes produced before that period, but never the whole mass of the papers together. Mr. Lushington did not think it practicable to present the papers alluded to sooner than they were usually laid before the House, Mr. Huskisson observed, that according to the provision of the act, the papers referred to were to be presented before the 25th of March, and that provision was uniformly complied with. But it would be impracticable to present those papers sooner, as they could not be made out without collecting information from all the outports. Mr. Tierney remarked, that those accounts were made up only to the 5th of January, and therefore he could not conceive the difficulty of preparing them for presentation to the House at least within the month of February; it was obviously desirable that they should be laid before the House as soon as possible, in order that it might be seen whether there was any excess or diminution in the revenue or expenditure. Mr. Rose said, that the right hon. gentleman was mistaken in supposing that the papers referred to could be prepared before the 25th of March. Those papers notoriously required a great deal of labour and industry; and although the expenditure might be ascertained, it would be difficult, nay impossible, to collect the details as to commerce, from the necessary reference to all the outports, so soon as the right hon. gentleman imagined. Mr. Tierney disclaimed any wish to call upon gentlemen for the performance of impossibilities, but he was anxious that at least the accounts conveniently attainable should be presented as soon as possible, in order to guide the judgment of the House. The motion for the Estimates was then agreed to. ECONOMY.] Sir Robert Heron wished to know from the noble lord opposite, when it was intended to bring forward those measures of economical reform, which had been mentioned in the Speech of the Prince Regent, and the expression of which had been received with so much satisfaction by the House. Lord Castlereagh was not aware that the part of the Speech which had been mentioned alluded to any one particular measure. The hon. member would find, |