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had any thing to fear in the proposed scheme of equalising the duties on the admission of their mutual produce.

Having said so much about what was to be given by England, he should pass next to the other part of his proposition, without which the former would be an improvident surrender of advantages belonging at this moment to Great Britain - he meant the return that was to be made for them by Ireland. He could not at the outset of this business, expect that any specific sum should be proposed by the Irish parliament, towards defraying the expense of protecting the commerce of the empire; because it was impossible for them to ascertain at present, or for some time to come, the amount of the advantages that the Irish would derive from this system: on the other hand, it would have been improper not to stipulate for something. He had, therefore, thought it best for this country, that she should have some solid and substantial provision for what should be stipulated in her favour, and that should keep pace with benefits that the system would produce to the Irish; for this purpose it had been agreed, that the provisions should consist of the surplus of the hereditary revenue, whenever there should be a surplus; and this fund, the committee would perceive, from what he was going to state, was precisely that from which it could be best collected, to what degree the Irish should have been benefited by the commercial regulations.

The hereditary revenue in Ireland was that which was inseparably annexed to the crown, and left to the king to be disposed of at his discretion, for the benefit of the public. It was pretty much like the hereditary revenue that was formerly annexed to the crown in this country, and which was given up by His present Majesty for a certain annuity: above four-fifths of the Irish hereditary revenue was raised in such a way, that the whole must necessarily increase, with an increase of commerce. It was raised from three several objects: - from customs, the produce of which must necessarily be greater, when the customed goods imported into Ireland should be more in value than they had

hitherto been; from 10 per cent. on other kinds of goods entered, which must of course bear always a proportion to the extent of the trade;-from hearths; an increase of population would produce an increase of houses, and an increase of houses would necessarily produce an increase of hearths, and consequently of this branch of the revenue; from an inland excise, which, depending always upon consumption, must always rise with population and property, and consequently, should the trade and population of Ireland exceed in future what they were at present; the hereditary revenue would be benefited by both. This revenue had not, indeed, for many years back, been equal to the ends for which it had been granted to the crown; and the deficiencies had been made up by new taxes imposed by the Irish parliament: it did not at present make above half of the whole; by the papers on the table, it appeared that it produced at present 652,000l. a year. For some time back there had been an arrear incurred, the expenses of the state being greater than its income: but he understood that steps were to be taken to bring both to a level, and then a reasonable hope might be entertained, that, if the trade of Ireland should grow more flourishing, there would be a consi derable surplus on this revenue, applicable to the protection of the common trade of the empire, and he indulged this hope the rather, for that several years back, when government took care that the expenditure should not be greater than the income, the hereditary revenue produced 690,000l. a year, though the com- · merce of the country was at the time shackled with innumerable restraints: what then might be expected from it, when that trade on which it depended should be enlarged? Then it would be found that our strength would grow with the strength of Ireland; and, instead of feeling uneasiness or jealousy at the increase of her commerce, we should have reason to rejoice at such a circumstance, because this country would then derive an aid for the protection of trade, proportioned to the increase of commerce in Ireland. He did not mean that we should very soon experience any very great assistance from this revenue, because it would take some time before new channels of trade could be

opened to Ireland: but from the nature of this fund it would ap→ pear, that if little should be given to England, it would be because little had been gained by Ireland: so that, whether much or little should be got from it, England would have no cause to be dissatisfied: if much should be got, she would be a gainer; if little, it would be a proof that little of the commerce of England had found its way into Ireland; and consequently there could not be much room for jealousy. The parliament of Ireland had readily consented to the appropriation of the surplus out of the hereditary revenue, to the defence of trade; but though he did not in the least doubt the intention of that parliament liberally to fulfil what had been so readily resolved, yet in a matter of so much moment to Great Britain, he felt that he ought not to leave any thing to the generosity or liberality even of the most generous and liberal. As it was his object to make a final settlement in this negociation, and to proceed upon a fixed principle, he wished it to be understood that, as he meant to insure to Ireland the permanent and irrevocable enjoyment of commercial advantages, so he expected in return, that Ireland would secure to England an aid as permanent and irrevocable. The resolution of the Irish parliament on that point was not worded in as clear a manner as he could wish. It stated, "That for the better protection of trade, whatever sum the gross hereditary revenue of the kingdom, (after deducting all drawbacks, repayments, or bounties in the nature of drawbacks,) shall produce annually over and above the sum of. —, should be appropriated towards the support of the naval force of the empire, in such a manner as the parliament of this kingdom shall direct." Now this did not plainly hold out the prospect of this surplus being irrevocably applied to this purpose; and as this was with him a conditio sine qua non, he would not call upon the committee to pledge itself to any thing on the subject, till the parliament of Ireland should have re-considered the matter, and explained it more fully.

Such, then, was the outline of the plan he intended to propose: the minute parts of it, would, no doubt, be open to full and fair investigation; and gentlemen would consequently be at

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liberty to call for any information that could possibly be procured. He flattered himself, that after what he had stated on different points, fears and jealousies would be laid aside. Gentlemen would see that except the mere intercourse with respect to certain articles between the two kingdoms, all the rest of the globe, not included in the East-India company's charter, was already open to Ireland: nay, that she could by law at this moment supply England circuitously through her own ports, with every sort of West-India commodities; and therefore, that whatever ground there might have been a few years ago for alarm, there was little or none now, when so little remained to be done. He did not apprehend that any manufacture in this country would immediately feel any bad consequence from the commercial extension to Ireland, or that any number of English manufacturers would be thrown upon the world for want of employment, or that they could be so soon rivalled or surpassed in any branch, as not to have time first to turn their thoughts to some other line of business; but should even an inconvenience of this kind happen in some small degree, it would be over-balanced by the good consequences that must attend the proposition he had to make: for, in the first place, it would form a final adjustment of commercial interests between the two countries; it would allay discontents in Ireland, and restore peace and harmony to the remaining branches of the empire; and secondly, if it took any thing from England in one way, it would highly benefit her in another, by providing a relief to her in the heavy expenses of protecting trade. He concluded, by moving the following resolution: "That it is the opinion of this committee, that it is highly important to the general interest of the empire, that the commercial intercourse between Great Britain and Ireland shall be finally adjusted; and that Ireland should be admitted to a permanent and irrevocable participation of the commercial advantages of this country, when the parliament of Ireland shall permanently and irrevocably secure an aid out of the surplus of the hereditary revenue of that kingdom, towards defraying the expense of protecting the general commerce of the empire in

time of peace." He observed, that, consistently with what he had said of the necessity of a further explanation on the part of the parliament of Ireland, respecting the permanency of the aid to be given for the protection of trade in general, he could not call upon the committee to give an immediate opinion upon his proposition; he would not, therefore, press for a vote now, but, on the contrary, would move that the further consideration of the resolution should be adjourned to a future day.

March 9. 1785.

DEBATE on a motion made by Mr. Fox, "That the former resolutions respecting the Westminster Scrutiny be rescinded and erased from the journals."

Mr. PITT declared, that he had given the minutest attention to every thing that had fallen on either side of the House, and particularly to the right honourable gentleman, not with any hopes of finding a new light thrown either on the legality or expediency of the question, but because he had been desirous to discover how far the ingenuity of gentlemen would go in giving an apparent diversity to arguments, which had already been so repeatedly handled in every shape that invention and subtlety could possibly give them. In aid to all the authorities which had already been adduced, the right honourable gentleman had resorted to new authorities of his own creation, those of the lord chancellor †, and the chief justice of the king's bench. Gentlemen, no doubt, must have at first imagined that the right honourable gentleman had come to the House armed with the express opinions of those great luminaries of the law, by the confidence with which he had used the sanction of their names to enforce his argument; but after availing himself for about a quarter of an hour of the credit which he assumed on the supposition of their opinions, he had at last thrown off his borrowed ornaments, and confessed that in the supposed opinions of those Lord Mansfield.

* Mr. Fox. + Lord Thurlow.

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