Mr. HALEY. Mr. Johnson, you are well aware of the serious situation we are in here in this Nation with an abundance of surplus feed grain, and everything else, are you not?

Mr. JOHNSON. That is right.

Mr. HALEY. This will bring more of that land into production, will it not?

Mr. JOHNSON. It would be very little increase in production. The thing we are vitally interested in is to stabilize our economy. We are dependent on this irrigation water and in some years we raise good crops, but we may run into a drought experience such as we had in the 1930's where we could not grow a thing without irrigation

water.

Mr. HALEY. Mr. Johnson, I note in your statement that you say the tangible total value of the property in the district is approximately $400 million; is that correct?

Mr. JOHNSON. That is true.

Mr. HALEY. Do you think the building of this project would increase that 20 percent?

Mr. JOHNSON. Not necessarily.

Mr. HALEY. Increase that valuation?

Mr. JOHNSON. Not necessarily; no, sir.

Mr. HALEY. You are going to put $81 million into this thing?

Mr. JOHNSON. Well, let me reiterate, we are no as much interested in bringing in new crops, or more crops, as we are in stabilizing what we now have.

Mr. HALEY. You also say that these large investments must be protected. Who do you think should protect these investments, Mr. Johnson?

Mr. JOHNSON. Well, that is a little hard question to answer, I think. We feel we can protect it if we have the proper facilities. Our towns and cities in the district are dependent on agriculture absolutely. Mr. HALEY. Has your property in any way, in the last few years, been damaged to any extent by floods?

Mr. JOHNSON. The 160 acres have been. That is true.
Mr. HALEY. The 160 acres have?

Mr. JOHNSON. Yes. I have it in two different localities.

Mr. HALEY. The 320 has not?

Mr. JOHNSON. That is right.

Mr. HALEY. How much of this huge acreage was damaged by floods, in your estimation, Mr. Johnson?

Mr. JOHNSON. That, again, varies. We have had floods out there where an enormous lot of damage was done, not only to the farm, but to our towns and to the railroads and highways.

Mr. HALEY. Well, you do not have to pay for damage to the railroad. The railroad puts that back on?

Mr. JOHNSON. That is true, but it still affects our economy. Mr. HALEY. How often do you have these instances of damage? Mr. JOHNSON. That is, again, hard to answer. We may have a flood this year and we may not have another one in 3 or 4 years. We never know.

Mr. HALEY. How many floods have you had in the last 15 years? Mr. JOHNSON. Well, I can think of three at least.

Mr. HALEY. One every 5 years?

Mr. JOHNSON. I think that is probably a fair avera

Mr. HALEY. That does a lot of damage?

Mr. JOHNSON. That is right.

Mr. HALEY. Out of this 430,000 acres in cropland, approximately 300,000 acres is already irrigated, is that right?

Mr. JOHNSON. That is right.

Mr. HALEY. That is by wells, is it not?

Mr. JOHNSON. That is right; yes, sir.

Mr. HALEY. Shallow wells?

Mr. JOHNSON. Right.

Mr. HALEY. So you might have an abundance of water if you went just a little deeper?

Mr. JOHNSON. No, sir; we do not have.

Mr. HALEY. You would not have any if you

Mr. JOHNSON. The deeper water level is not constant. I may have a water land over here and then put down a well and get a good well. My neighbor over here, he has used up his shallow water table and cannot get any water whatsoever.

Mr. HALEY. Have you any shortage of power facilities, or power operations, in your pumps, and so forth, in your wells, Mr. Johnson? Mr. JOHNSON. Not at the present time, no.

Mr. HALEY. Do you have a surplus, do you know?

Mr. JOHNSON. I think not, sir.

Mr. HALEY. Who supplies your power?

Mr. JOHNSON. The REA supplies the power for the irrigation

wells, largely.

Mr. HALEY. They, in turn, get it from whom?

Mr. JOHNSON. I beg your pardon.

Mr. HALEY. They buy their power from whom, or do they manufacture it? They do not manufacture it, do they?

Mr. JOHNSON. They buy it from the Nebraska Power Grid.

Mr. HALEY. The Nebraska Power Grid is a private or publicly owned company?

Mr. JOHNSON. All public.

Mr. HALEY. All public?

Mr. JOHNSON. That is right.

Mr. HALEY. As a matter of fact, you have very little private power in that State?

Mr. JOHNSON. That is true.

Mr. HALEY. None?

Mr. JOHNSON. That is right.

Mr. HALEY. How do you generate this power, Mr. Johnson?

Mr. JOHNSON. By water. We have a number of projects in the State that have powerplants in their setup.

Mr. HALEY. Mr. Johnson, you look like a very substantial citizen. Mr. JOHNSON. Thank you, sir.

Mr. HALEY. But I just want to say this to you: I know, as a good substantial citizen you are alarmed at the tremendous obligations which this Government of ours has built up for future generations to pay. I think that, with a public debt of $308 billion, plus hundreds and hundreds of billions of dollars which we have obligated and with the interest alone on the public debt twice what it costs to run the Federal Government 20 years ago, I think we owe the people ity to look around and not put on the shoulders of future

generations to come, a debt they will be unable to pay and might refuse to pay and, therefore, not only destroy the economics of this Nation but might even go so far in their resentment as to destroy this great Government of ours.

I think you had better think a little bit about this.

Mr. JOHNSON. On the other hand, if we do not do anything to stabilize our economy in our particular area, we cannot expect future generations to pay these high taxes and everything to pay our foreign indebtedness.

Mr. HALEY. Mr. Johnson, that is true, that you want to stabilize your economy, but you have also got to stabilize the economy of this entire Nation, or we will all go under and take you down with us. Mr. JOHNSON. I grant you that.

Mr. HALEY. You had better be thinking about those things out there in the great West where you have been pretty fairly, and maybe a little favorably, treated. Some of us who do not have the advantages of this public power, where other taxpayers have subsidized it to a large extent, we are getting a little tired of carrying quite a load. You had better think a little bit about this.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. ROGERS. Mr. Johnson of California?

Mr. JOHNSON of California. No questions.

Mr. ROGERS. Thank you very much, Mr. Johnson for your contribution.

The Chair will now recognize the gentleman from Nebraska.

STATEMENT OF HON. GLENN CUNNINGHAM, A MEMBER OF CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF NEBRASKA

Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I do have some remarks, and first I want to express my appreciation to you and the members of the committee for scheduling these hearings.

As a member of the full committee, I have always supported good reclamation projects and I certainly feel this is one.

In my opinion, these people have every right to be congratulated for taxing themselves to do a great deal of the work that is necessary in this project. I do not know if that is true in any other projects we have had in the period I have been here, but they have certainly sacrificed much financially so that this would proceed.

Much of the work that would ordinarily be done by Government agencies has already been done by them at their own expense.

In answer to Congressman Haley's comments, Nebraska is an allpublic power State. Our power is generated both by steam and by water, but I want to make the record clear that this all-public power in Nebraska is not subsidized by the Federal Government. We simply decided years ago we wanted to get out from under the yoke of Wall Street people and we voted to take these over.

So, we have taken them over and it is all public power but not at the expense of the Federal Government.

I would only qualify that to the extent that there is perhaps some of the power that does come in from generating plants on the Missouri River under the REA program, but as far as the Federal Government building any power projects in our State, I can say we have built our

own and simply decided to go over to the public power operation because we felt we did not want to have our affairs run from Wall Street. Also, in answer to Mr. Haley's questioning about the flood problem, I am in the eastern part of the State and this project is not in my area. The Platte River is in my area and in the 6 years I have been here, I think the Platte River has flooded my area, if not every year, nearly every year. It has caused a huge amount of damage to the eastern part of the State and with this program they could impound this water and that would relieve the flood threat, so far as my district is concerned, and save a lot of very valuable land and improvements on that land from destruction.

Just this past spring, we had a very serious flood problem in my area from the Platte River.

Mr. HALEY. If the gentleman will yield at that point?

Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Yes.

Mr. HALEY. I just want to say, Mr. Cunningham, in my State of Florida, we built a flood control project pure and simple, and that is all. We built it because we had, in 2 years down there, approximately 4,000 lives lost and the State of Florida built it just purely and simply as a flood control project, paying 49 percent of the cost of it; no power, no irrigation, no nothing.

Mr. CUNNINGHAM. I certainly congratulate the State of Florida. Mr. HALEY. We would like to see some other people pick up the tabs on some of these other projects.

Mr. CUNNINGHAM. As I stated, this is not going to bring any new crops into production except in a very small way. This is to replenish the water supply so the economy of central Nebraska can be maintained.

We all remember the drought years when our people were starving to death because they had to depend upon natural rainfall, and now they have, at their own expense, put down these wells and irrigated their land, but this water is being used up and the table is being lowered. We are simply asking now that they receive some help to raise that water level and/or certainly not let it go any lower.

I want to say, too, that this matter of recreation is very important to our State. Many people from the eastern part of Nebraska, and the east-central part, and other States travel the beautiful recreation areas of Colorado, Washington State, and other areas more fortunate than we are so far as natural recreation is concerned.

As a stopover on their way we would like to have those lovely spots, some areas where they could stop overnight and throw in a line and see what they could catch. This would certainly provide them an opportunity to do so.

Nebraska is short on recreation areas, and this will do a great deal to help our people enjoy life, help the people who are traveling from one area to the other, stop by and have a little fun on the way.

This is quite an important feature and I do not think that that particular feature ought to be overlooked.

We are continually trying to build our State, trying to stabilize its economy, and trying to make people happier in their residency in our State.

In summation, I will say that people in this affected area have, through much financial sacrifice, done a great deal to further this project. We have not asked the Federal Government to do it all. I think it is a good project and I would not be here testifying in behalf

of it otherwise, nor would I have introduced a bill to authorize it, if I did not think in my own mind that it is a very fine thing for the economy of our State.

So, Mr. Chairman, I have no further remarks and I appreciate the opportunity that you have afforded me to be here.

Mr. ROGERS. Thank you, Mr. Cunningham.

Are there any questions by any of the subcommittee members?

Mr. HALEY. No questions, Mr. Chairman, but I just want to say to the distinguished gentleman that I do not blame him for having this project here to serve his State; he has served it well, and I do not think there is any question about it, but I just would like to call his attention to the fact that you want to supply people with fish who go through there and will take $10.8 million of an investment at 5 percent interest to supply any tourist who happens to wander through there with all the fish he needs. That is just the interest alone. Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Not the joy of catching them?

Mr. HALEY. Well, if a fellow wants to fish, he does not care whether he gets them from the market or not. It is great fun to catch them, that is true, but that is a lot of money to have the skillet ready to fry two or three fish.

Mr. CUNNINGHAM. I hope the day never comes, Mr. Haley, when we would buy all of our fish at the fish market.

Mr. HALEY. Let me put it this way

Mr. CUNNINGHAM. I like to sit on the bank and catch them.

Mr. HALEY. The surest way to have fish is to go to the market for them.

Mr. ROGERS. Is that all?

Mr. HALEY. Yes, sir.

Mr. ROGERS. Our next witness is Mr. L. E. Ray, vice president of the Mid-State Reclamation District.

Mr. Ray, come forward and be recognized.

STATEMENT OF L. E. RAY, VICE PRESIDENT, MID-STATE
RECLAMATION DISTRICT

Mr. RAY. Mr. Chairman, I have a number of documents here I would like to file with the clerk.

Mr. ROGERS. Do you have a written statement, Mr. Ray?

Mr. RAY. Yes. I will file that with the clerk.

Mr. ROGERS. Do you have copies of your statement?

Mr. RAY. I just have the one copy here.

Mr. ROGERS. How long is it?

Mr. RAY. It is two pages.

Mr. ROGERS. Why not just read it and the other documents you referred to, you want to make a part of the record? Will you submit those to the clerk and then we will take a look at them unless you need them for reference.

Proceed.

Mr. RAY. Mr. Chairman and members of the committee, I am L. E. Ray, Grand Island, Nebr., an elected director, from Hall County and vice president of the Nebraska Mid-State Reclamation District, as Mr. Johnson has stated. However, I also appear here as president of the Grand Island Chamber of Commerce to present its statement in behalf of our members who have supported the Mid-State project proposals since 1943.