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They were a serious annoyance to him, and embarrassing to the progress of the war. They kept alive a spirit hostile to the government in the States we represented; they strengthened the hopes of the Confederates that at some day the border States would unite with them, and thus tend to prolong the war; and he was of opinion, if this resolution should be adopted by Congress and accepted by our States, that these causes of irritation and these hopes would be removed, and more would be accomplished toward shortening the war than could be hoped from the greatest victory achieved by Union armies. He made this proposition in good faith, and desired it to be accepted, if at all, voluntarily, and in the same patriotic spirit in which it was made. Emancipation was a subject exclusively under the control of the States, and must be adopted or rejected by each for itself; he did not claim nor had this government any right to coerce them for that purpose. He wished it to be clearly understood that such was no part of his purpose in making this proposition. He did not expect us to be prepared then and there to give him an answer, but he hoped we would take the subject into serious consideration, confer with one another, and then take such course as we felt our duty and the interests of our constituents required.

Mr. Noell, of Missouri, said that in his State slavery was not considered a permanent institution; that natural causes were there in operation which would at no distant day extinguish it, and he did not think that this proposition was necessary for that. Besides, he and his friends felt solicitous on account of the different constructions which the resolution and message had received. The New York Tribune was for it, and under

stood it to mean that we must accept gradual emancipation according to the plan suggested, or get something

worse.

The President replied that he must not be expected to quarrel with the New York Tribune before the right time; he hoped never to have to do it anyway he would not anticipate events. In respect to emancipation in Missouri, he said that what had been observed by Mr. Noell was probably true, but the operation of these natural causes had not prevented the irritating conduct to which he had referred, nor destroyed the hopes of the Confederates that Missouri would at some time range herself alongside of them, which prevention and destruction, the passage of this resolution by Congress and its acceptance by Missouri would in his judgment accomplish.

Mr. Crisfield, of Maryland, asked what would be the effect of the refusal of the State to accept this proposal, and desired to know if the President looked to any policy beyond the acceptance or rejection of this scheme.

The President replied that he had no designs beyond the action of the States on this particular subject. He should lament their refusal to accept it, but he had no designs beyond their refusal of it.

Mr. Menzies, of Kentucky, inquired if the President thought there was any power except in the States themselves to carry out his scheme of emancipation.

The President replied that he thought there could not be. He then went off into a course of remarks not qualifying the foregoing declaration. These were not recorded since they were immaterial to a just understanding of his meaning.

Mr. Crisfield said he did not think the people of Maryland looked upon slavery as a permanent institution; and he did not know that they would be very reluctant to give it up if provision was made to meet the loss and they could be rid of the race; but they did not like to be coerced into emancipation, either by the direct action of the government or by indirection, as through the emancipation of slaves in the District of Columbia, or the confiscation now threatened of Southern property. He thought before the people of Maryland would consent to consider this proposition they would require to be informed on these points.

The President replied that, unless he was expelled by the act of God or the Confederate armies, he should occupy that house for three years; and as long as he remained there Maryland had nothing to fear either for her institutions or her interests on the points referred to.

Mr. Crisfield immediately added: Mr. President, if what you now say could be heard by the people of Maryland, they would consider your proposition with a much better feeling than I fear they will be inclined to do without such public expression on your part.

The President replied that a publication of what he said would not do; it would force him into a quarrel before the proper time; and, again intimating, as he had before done, that a quarrel with the "Greeley faction" was impending, he said he did not wish to encounter it before the proper time, nor at all if it could be avoided.

Governor Wickliffe, of Kentucky, then asked him respecting the constitutionality of his scheme.

The President replied: As you may suppose, I have considered that; and the proposition now submitted does not encounter any constitutional difficulty. It proposes simply to coöperate with

any State by giving such State pecuniary aid. He added that he thought the resolution, as proposed by him, would be considered rather as the expression of a sentiment than as involving any constitutional question.

Mr. Hall, of Missouri, thought that if this proposition was adopted at all, it should be by the votes of the free States, and should come as a proposition from them to the slave States, affording them an inducement to put aside this subject of discord; that it ought not to be expected that members representing slaveholding constituencies should declare at once, and in advance of any proposition to them, for the emancipation of slavery.

The President said he saw and felt the force of the objection; it was a fearful responsibility, and every gentleman must do as he thought best. He did not know how this scheme was received by the members from the free States; some of them had spoken to him and received it kindly; but for the most part they were as reserved and chary as we had been, and he could not tell how they would vote. And in reply to some expression of Mr. Hall as to his own opinion regarding slavery, he said that he did not pretend to disguise his antislavery feeling; he thought slavery was wrong, and should continue to think so; but that was not the question we had to deal with now. Slavery existed, and that, too, as well by the act of the North as of the South; and in any scheme to get rid of it, the North as well as the South was morally bound to do its full and equal share. He thought that the institution was wrong and that it ought never to have existed; but yet he recognized the rights of property which had grown out of it, and he would respect those rights

as fully as similar rights in any other property; he recognized that property can exist, and does legally exist in slavery. He thought such a law wrong, but the rights of property resulting must be respected; he would get rid of the odious law, not by violating the right, but by encouraging the proposition and offering inducements to give it up.

Here the interview, so far as this subject is concerned, terminated by Mr. Crittenden's assuring the President that, whatever might be our final action, we all thought him solely moved by a high patriotism and sincere devotion to the happiness and glory of his country; and with that conviction we should consider respectfully the important suggestions he had made.

Response to Evangelical Lutherans on Dependence upon Divine Guidance.

Early in May, 1862, probably on the 6th day of the month, the President received a delegation of Evangelican Lutherans, who bore an official message pledging the support of their church. The President said in response:

Gentlemen: I welcome here the representatives of the Evangelical Lutherans of the United States. I accept with gratitude their assurances of the sympathy and support of that enlightened, influential, and loyal class of my fellow-citizens in an important crisis which involves, in my judgment, not only the civil and religious liberties of our own dear land, but in a large degree the civil and religious liberties of mankind in many countries and through many ages. You well know, gentlemen, and the world knows, how reluctantly I accepted this issue of battle forced upon me on my advent to this place by the in

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