as a seat cushion and also as a life preserver, is almost a necessity to small boats.

The CHAIRMAN. Does your association manufacture them?

Mr. GUDGEON. There are probably six or seven manufacturers that belong to our association; yes; but I am not speaking so much from the manufacturer's standpoint as I am from the standpoint of the owners of small boats-outboard motorboats. If they have three persons in a 12- or 14-foot boat, they could not possibly carry three life preservers, and then, in addition, they probably want seat cushions, too. As I say, it is a general utility that is being used.

The CHAIRMAN. If they are going to sink like concrete, like Mr. Rappleyea said, from that standpoint I can see they are of no use as life preservers.

Mr. GUDGEON. Of course, that is an argument, sir, against these cushions; but the Department has not, or the inspectors, rather, have never, as I understand, approved any particular type of cushion. I think if these words were inserted and the Department could get together with the manufacturers

The CHAIRMAN. Now, what is it you want to have inserted?

Mr. GUDGEON. The words "or buoyant cushion," after "or life belt." The CHAIRMAN. It seems that is practically the language of the law now.

Mr. GUDGEON. That is right.

The CHAIRMAN. And you said "if they could get together with the manufacturers." Is there any limitation we can put in there as to the kind of buoyant cushion to be approved by the Department?

Mr. GUDGEON. Well they are being used now, and the quarrel seems to be as to whether or not they are safe. But, as you just stated a short time ago, there has never seemed to be any case of loss of life because these cushions were on board. And if the Department is not satisfied with the present type of kapoc cushion that is made, then I think it should be the Department's business to investigate and prescribe type of cushion that would be satisfactory.

As for the rest of the bill, we are very much in accord with it, Mr. Bland, and believe this is very urgently needed, and many of the changes that are incorporated in here have been desired for a long time.

The CHAIRMAN. Under H. R. 6039, as it is drawn here, if we were to put in "buoyant cushions," they would still have to be of the kind prescribed by the regulations of the Board of Supervising Inspectors, with the approval of the Secretary of Commerce?

Mr. GUDGEON. That is right. I do not believe they have prescribed any by the regulations.

The CHAIRMAN. Personally, I am not in favor of all that fool thing about having the Board of Supervising Inspectors do it; I do not see why the Department of Commerce itself cannot pass on those things.

Mr. GUDGEON. Well, somebody should pass upon them.

The CHAIRMAN. Yes; somebody should pass upon them.

Mr. OLIVER. A cushion in the condition that Mr. Rappelyea described would not be buoyant, would it?

Mr. GUDGEON. No. I think, Mr. Oliver, that is the basis for this. When a cushion is new, you buy a cushion and put in your boat, and

that cushion is very satisfactory and it would be if you did not sit on it; but after about 3 weeks, they claim, or maybe longer, according to the weight of the person who had sat upon it, the kapok compresses and gets hard and therefore loses its buoyancy, and perhaps there are cushions that have been used for 3 or 4 years that, if you would throw them overboard, they probably would sink.

Mr. OLIVER. The cushion is in a condition where really it is not buoyant?

Mr. GUDGEON. It would not be, probably.

Mr. OLIVER. I mean if it had been used for a considerable period of time, the inspector can thrust it aside as not being buoyant?

Mr. GUDGEON. That is quite true. And that is what has happened, and when they have an inspection they discard those things. And the same thing with the life preserver; they rip open the cork life preserver and find it is deteriorating.

Mr. OLIVER. The language in this bill prescribes a "buoyant cushion"?

Mr. GUDGEON. That is right.

Mr. OLIVER. Then the argument of Mr. Rappleyea, it seems to me, more or less falls because a cushion in that condition is no longer buoyant and, therefore, would not come up to the requirements of the law?

Mr. GUDGEON. That is quite true; and the same thing with the life preservers, too, if they are not buoyant.

The CHAIRMAN. Are there any further questions? If not, have you completed your statement?

Mr. GUDGEON. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. You may file a brief, if you want to.

Mr. GUDGEON. Thank you, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Are you representing Mr. Hand?

Mr. GUDGEON. Yes.

The CHAIRMAN. And you are representing Mr. Remon, Mr. Rappleyea?

Mr. RAPPLEYEA. Yes, sir.

STATEMENT OF W. J. MURPHY, SALES MANAGER, PERKINS MARINE LAMP & HARDWARE CORPORATION

The CHAIRMAN. Are you in favor of these bills or opposed to them?

Mr. MURPHY. Well, I am in favor of them, but I have a few remarks to make concerning specific sections.

The CHAIRMAN. Of what bill?

Mr. MURPHY. H. R. 6039.

The CHAIRMAN. Proceed.

Mr. MURPHY. I want to refer particularly to subsection (a) of section 3 of H. R. 6039, where it provides for a white light on small motorboats, and the language then goes along but does not provide for a combination light on a boat of that type.

The CHAIRMAN. You represent whom?

Mr. MURPHY. The Perkins Marine Lamp & Hardware Corporation. The CHAIRMAN. You manufacture those, do you?

Mr. MURPHY. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. You are speaking in the interest of the boat owner, or speaking in the interest of the follow who makes lamps?

Mr. MURPHY. As a boat owner, I am speaking in the interest in the boat and, of course, as a manufacturer I am also speaking in the interest of the lamp manufacturer. But operating an outboard boat of my own, I know it is dangerous to handle them if they are not handled properly. Our contention is that most of the motorboats under 16 feet long are powered by outboard motors. These are highspeed power plants and an outboard combination light with a red and green lens is just as necessary on a boat of that type as on a larger vessel.

The CHAIRMAN. Of less than 16 feet?

Mr. MURPHY. Yes.

The CHAIRMAN. To what size boat does this apply?

Mr. MURPHY. This is class A boats under 16 feet.

The CHAIRMAN. What you are talking about is that combination light on the boat under 16 feet?

Mr. MURPHY. That is right. They are in use at the present time. However, this subsection here would do away with them, and they are just as necessary on a boat of that type or of that size as they are on the larger boats, due to the fact that in a great many cases that boat under 16 feet-let us take an outboard motorboat of 14 or 15 feet-is propelled by a very high-powered outboard motor, and she can go as high as 20 or 25 miles an hour, even though not racing; she is a family boat, but they operate on crowded waters, such as the waters of Sheepshead Bay, N. Y., and other waters. A white light, of course, has a greater visibility than a colored light; at the same time, a white light does not indicate anything. It indicates, of course, that a boat is there, but it does not indicate whether that boat is coming toward the operator of another boat, or whether it is going away, or crossing the bow from port to starboard, or anything of that sort. The colored light will do that; it will indicate very frequently in what direction you are going.

These fast little boats, of course, can be dangerous if not properly equipped. I agree with the thought in the bill that these little boats should not be equipped with all of the equipment of the regular class 1, class 2, or class 3 motorboat, but they must have a little light on there that will indicate what the boat is doing, in order to make the navigation of the other vessel more safe and sound.

Mr. WELCH. What is the history of motorboats with reference to accidents and loss of life?

Mr. MURPHY. I am not thoroughly familiar with it, sir, but I do not believe there have been many accidents in small motorboats. Mr. WELCH. You are not familiar with them, yet you stated you

own one?

Mr. MURPHY. Oh, yes, I own one and I have not witnessed any accidents. Of course, at the present time those boats are used on crowded waters.

Mr. WELCH. What is the reason for alarm with reference to additional equipment, if there are no accidents on such craft?

Mr. MURPHY. I contend this, sir, that if that little red and green combination light is eliminated, there are liable to be more accidents. The CHAIRMAN. You claim they are used now and this would eliminate their necessity?

Mr. MURPHY. Yes, sir.

Mr. OLIVER. What is the reason for the exclusion in this bill of the varied-color light?

Mr. MURPHY. I do not know, but I have been talking to some people about it and I understand the reason for it is that a lot of the small rowboats or dinghy owners who use them generally for rowing back from the yacht to the shore, occasionally put an outboard motor on the stern and, in that case, when they come across an inspector, he will get after them and make them put on a lot of class 1 motorboat equipment which, of course, is ridiculous.

The CHAIRMAN. That is the trouble about it. It seems to me one thing that is going to be necessary is to get some inspectors with a fair degree of common sense.

Mr. MURPHY. However, I feel if the size of the class A is changed a bit, it will help very greatly there. For instance class A at the present says boats under 16 feet long. Now there are too many highpowered speedboats which come into that class, under 16 feet long. However, most of the dinghies and rowboats, and so forth, run between 12 and 14 feet long. I think if the size of the class A boat was reduced to boats under 13 or 14 feet, it would take care of the little rowboat or dinghy owners very nicely; and at the same time, would insure proper running light equipment on boats powered with highspeed outboard motors. Of course, it would not take care of all of them; there would be some overlapping there and, I understand, these things cannot be made absolutely perfect, but we want to make them as perfect as we possibly can, of course.

Another thing, Mr. Chairman, as to these little lights: There is no effort in carrying them. I know a lot of equipment, such as life preservers, cushions, and things like that, clutter up the boats; but a little combination light that costs $2.60 is no burden on the boat owner's pocketbook, particularly.

The CHAIRMAN. It may be for the fellow who is just sporting around, and for recreation, it will be all right; but you take the others, and it does put a burden on them, and many people cannot afford to put all of the equipment on, and they are entitled to have a boat to run out in occasionally.

Mr. MURPHY. However, if life is at stake we think $2.60 is a good investment.

The CHAIRMAN. I guess he has just as high a regard for life as anybody, and the people on the boat know a darn sight better how to take care of their lives than we do up here in the legislative halls.

Mr. MURPHY. That is true; but, at the same time, I believe in insisting on safe driving, myself. He might get along without a combination light very nicely, but you take it in the larger waters, you take it in the crowded waters like Sheepshead Bay, with which I am very familiar, and right now it is overcrowded with boats. That bay is crowded right up with fishing boats that come in there at pretty good speed and these little drivers are chasing in and out under the bow, and stern, and so forth, and if they have not proper running light equipment, there are going to be accidents. That little combination light set up on the bow of the boat does not take up any room at all. The CHAIRMAN. All right; take up the next point.

Mr. MURPHY. There is another point there. Subsection (d) of section 3 provides:

Motorboats, when propelled by sail and machinery, or by sail alone, shall carry the colored side lights, suitably screened, but not the white lights prescribed by this section, except in the case of motorboats of classes A and 1, which shall carry, ready at hand, a lantern showing a white light which shall be exhibited in sufficient time to avert collision.

In that particular paragraph, I am not sure whether that provides motorboats of class A and class 1 shall also carry the colored side lights in addition to the white light. I have talked to several other people about it and they are not quite sure of it, and I would like to ask that question here, if I may, Mr. Chairman.

The CHAIRMAN. Captain Sweet, can you answer that question? Captain SWEET. It is intended that motorboats of class A and class 1 shall carry only the white lamp, that particular class.

Mr. MURPHY. Now, you could imagine, Mr. Chairman, a boat 24 feet long under sail without any lights at all on a dark night, with just a white light to be kept on the boat, to be exhibited in case of danger of collision. It would allow boats of limited maneuverability to proceed under way at night without lights of any kind, except a white light to be exhibited in sufficient time to avert a collision. We contend the phrase "in sufficient time" would presuppose that the operator of the subject vessel is aware of the intentions as well as the maneuverability of the meeting vessel. When it is realized that boats of class A and 1 are frequently handled by inexperienced operators and in very crowded waters, it can be seen that dangerous situations will frequently arise.

Take the section of Sheepshead Bay; I must repeat that, as I am more familiar with that body of water than any other: These little class 1 and class A sailboats going through those waters there without any lights at all at night, just repeating what I said before, would create a very dangerous possibility; whereas a colored light-it is true that every once in awhile on the small boats, the sails are so low that they hide the colored lights; but, at the same time, some light on there is better than none at all. The bill provides for a flashlight or something of that sort being flashed on the sails to indicate that the vessel is there and which way she is proceeding; but, suppose the flashlight does not work; suppose the batteries are used up, which is very frequently the case. It is true that is the subject of inspection, but I think colored lights should be provided for regardless of whether a flashlight or a white alternate light that is flashed on the sails is provided for or not.

The CHAIRMAN. Is that all?

Mr. MURPHY. That is all.

Mr. O'BRIEN. Have you had any accidents around Sheepshead Bay because of insufficient lights on crowded waters?

Mr. MURPHY. Well, we have had a few accidents up there, not entirely due, of course, to insufficient lights, for the simple reason they are using combination lights.

Mr. O'BRIEN. Do you recall any fatalities that were caused by the lights not being proper-the ship not being properly equipped with lights?