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WINDSOR CHAIRS (9th S. iii. 349, 456).—A

chair of great antiquity at one time stood in

It has been

St. George's Hall, Windsor.

RELIGIOUS FOUNDATION AT SHERE (9th S. iii.
448). Surely this is a misreading for the well-supposed to date from the earliest Norman
known priory of Jesus of Bethlehem at Shene. kings of England.
R. F.

"DIES CRETA NOTANDUS" (9th S. iii. 48, 194).

-The two following are still earlier examples

than the passage from Horace quoted at the

last reference :--

Quare illud satis est, si nobis is datur unis

Quem lapide illa dies candidiore notat.

Catull., lxviii. B., 147, 148.

Restituis cupido atque insperanti ipsa refers te
Nobis. o lucem candidiore nota!

Catull., cvii. 5, 6.
T. HUTCHINSON, M.A.

INSTRUMENTAL CHOIR (7th S. xii. 347, 416,

469; 8th S. i. 195, 336, 498; ii. 15; 9th S. ii.

513; iii. 178).-Possibly an article on 'Barrel

Organs' (by your humble servant), which
appeared some months since in the Organist
and Choirmaster, may interest MR. J. T. PAGE.
THOS. ELLISTON.

MONTAIGNE AND EAST ANGLIA (9th S. iii.
144, 211, 437).—How does MR. EDWARD E.
MORRIS know that in the passage I quoted:
And my ancestors have heretofore been
surnamed [Higham or] Eyquem, a surname
which also belongs to a house well known in

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this should comprehend everything in one alphabet, and in uniform type. The entries should be printed separately, and not be made to run on continuously.

mezzotints on steel plates, which of itself is sufficient to show that the most beautiful work can be done on steel. In fact, unless it is stated on the proof that the plate is steel, In the early part of this century, when no person not an expert (and they not always) great attention began to be paid to minute can say that an engraving was drawn on topographical and genealogical details, it was steel. Mr. Percy Thomas had two etchings thought necessary in antiquarian books, in the exhibition of the Royal Society of especially those of societies, to make elaborate Painter-Etchers this year: one was on copper; separate indexes of "persons" and "places." the other (quite unusual and done for an Now, when we have discovered that "things" experiment), "The Landing-Stage, Gravesend,' are of equal-perhaps of greater-importance, was etched (not engraved) on steel. The work we regret the short-sighted policy which is quite as free as it on copper, and not even neglected to provide an "index of subjects." an expert could tell the difference.

I may instance the publications of the Surtees Society. Volumes such as the 'Naworth Household Books' and the 'Durham Halmote Rolls' have all their (comparatively unimportant) persons and places indexed; but the subjects, many in number and often highly interesting, are left a hopeless mass, without any clue. In these busy days such books are well-nigh useless.

W. C. B.

PORTRAIT OF TOM PAINE (9th S. iii. 285, 391). On reading the first note it occurred to me that the engraving mentioned could not be on steel in 1792, as I thought steel had not then been used for engraving. On looking at the 'Encyclopædia Britannica,' eighth edition, 1855, under Steel,' I find we are cross-referred to iron, which for this purpose was not worth referring to. Under Engraving' (vol. viii. p. 809) it says steel engraving was introduced about 1818 from America; at the same time it gives an instance of steel being used in England in 1805. In the now antiquated ninth edition, vol. viii., 1878, under 'Engraving,' I failed to find any statement as to the use of steel for engraving, nor could I find anything in Ottley's History of Engraving.'

In Haydn's 'Dictionary of Dates,' 1889, p. 320, we are told that "engraving on soft steel was introduced into England in the year 1819.

"

I have always had a profound contempt for "steel engravings," from the almost uniformly bad work I have seen. I believe there has been more bad work on steel than any other material. A statement on the title-page of a book that the engravings are "executed on steel" has always been sufficient to deter me from looking further.

The Encyclopædia Britannica' (ninth edition, above mentioned), vol. viii., 1878, p. 445, says, "Mezzotint engraving is still practised in England with great skill by Cousens and others." Cousens died in 1887, and for some years previous he worked all his

This

The number of proofs that can be taken from steel is almost limitless. Copper, on the other hand, soon shows signs of wear. is now got over by putting a steel facing over the copper, as to which I need say nothing, as the process is, I believe, mentioned in most text-books. Steel facing is not noticed in the Encyclopædia Britannica,' though practised in London by M. Joubert in 1860, if not earlier.

The disadvantage of steel is that it is much more difficult to bite in, as the acid acts so rapidly, and it is liable to rust, the least rust-mark making an impression in the proof. Copper is far nicer to work on, and presents fewer technical difficulties to an etcher. Though in youth I mastered the technical difficulties of etching on copper and printed my own plates, I never tried steel.

I think we may be pretty certain that a portrait engraved in 1792 was not on steel. RALPH THOMAS.

The engraving by Sharp of Romney's portrait of Tom Paine is dated 20 April, 1793, Magazine appeared in August, 1792. whereas the portrait in the Carlton House

Southsea.

H. H. PAYNE.

66

one

"JANISSARY" (9th S. iii. 384, 454).-There is more than one difficulty in accepting the derivation of this word from the Persian Ján-nisári, however tempting such an etymology may appear to an Indian official familiar with that language. In the first place, Ján-nisár may possibly mean who exposes or devotes his life" I say 'possibly," for I am doubtful if the expression occurs in classical Persian; but Jánnisári would mean the act of devotion, not the person who performed it. In the next place, the word which is spelt "Janissary" in. English is undoubtedly spelt Yengi-chéri in Turkish, as a reference to any dictionary of that language will show (cf. Redhouse's

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English and Turkish Dictionary,' s.v.; cannot be derived from a word beginning with 'Dizionario Italiano - Francese - Armeno-j. It is interesting to observe that the EngTurco,' Vienna, 1846, s.v. 'Giannizare'). The lish form jenisarie of 1612 preserves the oriliteral meaning of Yengi-chéri is new sol- ginal e of the Turkish form. But I need not diery," and it is derived from two Turki give the arguments all over again. words, yengi, "new," and chérik, an "army." WALTER W. SKEAT. The former word is used wherever Turkish "DIBBLE" (9th S. iii. 407).-Surely this is a is spoken, but the latter, though common in Eastern Turkistan (cf. R. B. Shaw, Sketch of good English word, used all over the land by the Turki Language,' Calcutta, 1878-80, s.v.), farmers and gardeners. It is of common appears to have dropped out of the 'Osmanli occurrence in agricultural books, old and speech, except in composition. In accord- Journal of the Royal Agricultural Society, accord-new. We have met with it frequently in the ance with the genius of the 'Osmanli dialect, but cannot give references to volume and the final k of chérík is elided, in the same way that the Bek or Beg of Central Asia page. A writer in the Gentleman's Magazine becomes Bey at Constantinople. I ought, employed...... dibbling beans," 1799, vol. i. of a hundred years ago alludes to "a woman perhaps, to add that the letters ng in yengi are represented in Turki script by a three- P. 392. The instrument by which dibbling dotted kaf, which, in certain circumstances, formerly usually made of iron; now it is more is performed is called a dibbler." It was has the nasal sound of n in bringing. commonly of wood, with an iron end by which

The corps of Janissaries was originally formed from the children taken captive by Turki hordes in their forays in Asia Minor, and afterwards recruited, like the Memlúks of Egypt, from Georgians and Circassians brought in slavery to Constantinople. Though they were fierce and able soldiers, I doubt if there was much of the fanatic spirit of the Gházi in their composition, unless we reduce that word to its original signification of any one who takes part in a warlike raid, or razzia. I may conclude by saying that this matter was set by PROF. SKEAT on a sound basis in two notes contributed some years ago to 'N. & Q.' (6th S. xi. 138, 270), and since republished in 'A Student's Pastime,' pp. 198-9. In these notes there are two slight inaccuracies: (1) that charík (chérík) is a Persian word, whereas it is by origin a Turki one, and (2) that in old books the English word only occurs in the plural. The quotations given by CAPT. HARRIS and myself show that it was also used in the singular.

W. F. PRIDEAUX.

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the "dibble-holes" are made. N. M. & A.

The common dibble is made from the top end of the handle of a spade sharpened to a point and sheathed with iron. It is used for "pricking out" seedling plants, such as cabbages and lettuces; for beans a furrow is more often drawn with a hoe. A larger kind of dibble with a cross handle at top was formerly used for planting potatoes; now, I believe, they are ploughed in, ploughed ("earthed") up, and ploughed out.

THOMAS J. JEAKES. This word is in constant use here. We "dibble" or "dib" beans and also potatoes. JOHN T. PAGE.

West Haddon, Northamptonshire.

ANCIENT WATER - PIPES (9th S. iii. 445).— Were not wooden pipes for the conveyance of water used almost every where in the seventeenth century? They certainly were so used in Newcastle-upon-Tyne. William Yarnold, of New Woodstock, Oxon, came It is sad to see the exploded story about hither in 1697, and, obtaining an Act of jān-nisārī all over again. I showed it up in Parliament (10 William III.), constructed a 1885 (see 'N. & Q.,' 6th S. xi. 270). The right reservoir at Coxlodge, three miles north of the etymology, from the Turkish yeni-cheri, "new town, from which he laid down a four-inch soldiery, which was used before A.D. 1380, wooden pipe, and carried it across the moor, was given by Gibbon in his 'Decline and Fall through Newcastle, and along Tyne Bridge to of the Roman Empire,'ch. lxiv., long before the Gateshead. The length of the pipe was 5,430 Persian word was made up. The Persian etymo- yards, and, it is said, was bought by Yarnold logy is impossible, for phonetic reasons. The from a broken-up work in London, probably English word was merely borrowed from the that of Peter Morrys, predecessor of Sir Hugh French janissaires, pl. This French word was Myddelton. From Gateshead reservoir the a misspelling of Ital. ianizzeri (Florio, 1598), water flowed by gravitation through a fivewhich was really a plural form cleverly sub-inch elm pipe into the front street of that stituted for a noun of multitude, viz., the Turkish yeni-cheri. The Ital. i was really a way of writing the sound of y, and therefore

town, where it was joined by a three-inch lead pipe with wooden pipes intermixed, and so was taken back across the bridge to two

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Common Expenses for 1 Yard.
Cutting earth, filling up and beating
each joint after pumps are laid, at 4d.
Timber, small Norway balks, lid. per
per yard
foot, 10 ft.

Boring a 24-inch bore, 2d. per foot
Worming ends of each pump, cutting
and fitting the joints, and laying

to

large leaden cisterns in different parts of New-
castle, and from these cisterns was delivered
to tenants through mains in the principal
streets. Yarnold's arrangement was unsatis-
factory, and various alterations were made-
one of them being the laying of a four-inch
elm pipe from Heworth, near Gateshead, to
Newcastle, fitted with air-cocks, which
lessened the strain upon the mains and
reduced the costs of repairs. The system of 1,160 yards at 2s. 1d. per [yard] amounts
service was as follows. The water was brought
from the ponds at Gateshead to the two cisterns
on Saturday night, and by Sunday morning
they were full. The water from one cistern
then flowed into the pipe supplying Castle
Garth district and remained on till one
o'clock; it was then turned off into Flesh
Market district till seven o'clock. In like
manner the water from the other cistern ran
to Pilgrim Street till one o'clock, and was
then taken to Groat Market till seven. On
Sunday night the cisterns were again filled,
and on Monday four other districts obtained
supplies. On Tuesday the process was re-
peated in four fresh districts. This com-
pleted the service, and thus the various parts

of the town were served in rotation once a
week.

This cumbersome system gradually gave way to a better, but occasionally the old elm-wood pipes are exhumed in making excavations. One of them, 5 ft. long, 10 in. in diameter, with a 3-inch bore, was dug up near the Tyne Theatre, Newcastle, in August, 1893. Much curious information upon this subject is contained in a pamphlet entitled 'History of the Water Supply of Newcastleupon-Tyne,' 1851. Here, as an example, is an extract from the old books of the water com

pany: "Robert Atkinson cutt himself off, having sunck a well in his Back side at Michas. 1717, which supplys hime."

Newcastle-upon-Tyne.

RICHARD WELFORD.

London and Hull are not the only places in which ancient water-pipes have been found. Newcastle-upon-Tyne had its water supply in the last century by means of wood pipes. The unearthing of these ancient pipes is so frequent in the laying down of new gas-pipes, &c., in the older streets in the city that to the inhabitants they are quite familiar. They are usually about 20 ft. long, 10 in. in diameter, and of a 3-inch bore. Many of the oak pipes are as solid as when first put down.

The following estimate of the cost of laying down 1,160 yards of wood water-pipes in the year 1780, on the Seaton Delaval estate, will illustrate the method employed, and also the cost of labour in the last century :-

Extra Expenses.
100 yards additional cutting and filling
up from well across the road and
plantation, about 3 feet deeper than
the common, at 4d. per yard

500 yards additional timber on account
of strength through the Burn, 1d. a
solid foot to each yard

...

Delaval House, Sunderland.

...

0 04

0 13 0 06

0 0 0

0 21

123 5 0

1 13 4

8 68 £133 5 0

JOHN ROBINSON.

still to be found under London streets; and as
No doubt there are many wooden pipes
when refilling after excavation, they are
it seems to be the practice to put them back
likely to be rediscovered periodically for the
interest and amusement of successive genera-
tions.
A. S. H.

In the year 1890 I myself saw exactly such water-pipes unearthed in Clifford Street, W. Others were found a few feet below the surface in Great Marylebone Street, near Wimpole Street, in March of this year.

JOHN T. PAGE.

The most extraordinary water-pipes I ever saw were lying on some waste ground on the October, 1881. They were of squared limewestern outskirts of Beaune, Côte d'Or, stone, like kerbstones, about six feet long, and perhaps rather less than a foot square they had a round socket-an enlargement of the bore-at one end, and a corresponding projection at the other, for joining.

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THOMAS J. JEAKES.

[Other replies are acknowledged.] Two OF EDWARD FITZGERALD'S EARLY POEMS (9th S. iii. 441).-I hardly think that the admirers of Edward FitzGerald will be inclined to accept the two poems that have been reprinted at this reference as the genuine productions of the Laird of Littlegrange. As a young man FitzGerald was very much under the influence of Lamb and Wordsworth, and the poem that he contributed in 1831 to Hone's 'Year-Book,' under the title of 'The Meadows in Spring,' reprinted by Dr. Aldis Wright in his two editions

of FitzGerald's 'Letters,' was so much an echo of the former's style that Lamb himself declared he envied the writer of it, because he felt he could have done something like him. It would be hard to trace a resemblance between this poem and the weak amalgams of Tominy Moore and Winthrop Praed that were published in 'The Keepsake.' In 1835, as we know from his letters of that date, FitzGerald, so far from indulging in frivolities of this kind, was undergoing a course of hard reading in Dante, Milton, Barrow, and Jeremy Taylor. It would be a strange instance of the irony of circumstance if it turned out that the verses were actually written by FitzGerald's namesake and aversion-Edward Marlborough Fitzgerald, who left Cambridge about the time that E. F. G. entered into residence.

Those who are interested in the question would do well to refer to Sir George Young's introduction to his edition of Praed's 'Political and Occasional Poems,' 1888, pp. xxiv-xxxi, where the subject of E. M. Fitzgerald's imitations of Praed is exhaustively worked out.

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W. F. PRIDEAUX.

The date of the Edward Fitzgerald whom the Editor supposes to have been the author of the poems quoted is given in 'Lyra Elegantiarum' as circa 1820." If this date is even approximately correct, he would be very young to appear as an author in 'The Keepsake of 1835. There is a notice of him (by the editor) in Mr. Miles's 'The Poets and the Poetry of the Century'; but no particulars whatever are given, and his date is noted as "18-?" He is said, however, to have been a writer for annuals. I have three of his poems in three different anthologies- the same three in each-and shall be glad to know who and what he really was. His name in all the collections is spelt with a little g. C. C. B.

LADY GRANGE (9th S. iii. 407).-T. C. P. will find a long and interesting account of

the above at the end of the 'Historical

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"SHAVING HAT" (9th S. iii. 447).-Elizabeth Canning left the house of her mother, near Aldermanbury, on 1 January, 1753, to visit her friends. On returning home she was robbed and detained by two men in Moorfields, and was not seen again by her parent until the 29th of the same month. The Daily Advertiser of

advertisement offering a reward for her January, 1753, contains an recovery. It gives a description of her person and dress. Among other articles of apparel which she is said to have worn was a white chip hat bound round with Memoirs of Rob Roy and the Clan Mac-green." A chip hat or bonnet was fashiongregor,' by K. Macleay, M.D., 1818, pp. 308403, entitled 'Notices regarding the Mysterious History of Lady Grange.' JOHN RADCLIFFE. The best account of the abduction of Lady Grange is in 'Tales of the Century,' by the Sobieski Stuarts, 1847, pp. 233-96.

F. C. BUCHANAN.

M.P. CLAIMING PAYMENT OF EXPENSES (9th S. iii. 448).-'N. & Q.' (2nd S. iv., vi., vii.) contains many extracts from church records and

small slip or thin cutting of wood, a kind of able for many years. It was made from a straw plait, the leaves of a Cuban palm. Now, might not the description of a "shaving hat" be a facetious description of a hat made of wood? EVERARD HOME COLEMAN.

71, Brecknock Road.

This means, I think, a hat made of shavings, or rather of thin and narrow strips of wood much like shavings, though of somewhat greater thickness and more regular formation. It was meant for summer wear. I have

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