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SUBCOMMITTEE OF THE COMMITTEE ON APPROPRIATIONS, Washington, DC. The subcommittee met at 10:08 a.m. in room SD-192, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. Pete V. Domenici presiding.

Present: Senators Cochran, Mattingly, Domenici, Stennis, and Andrews.



Senator DOMENICI. The hearing will come to order. We have many witnesses and very little time, so we would appreciate it if any of you in the audience desire to talk among yourself, do that outside so we can hear the witnesses. We have about 15 witnesses in an hour and a half this morning, so we are going to try to expedite things. In the absence of the chairman of the subcommittee, Senator Hatfield, I have been asked as a member of the subcommittee to preside over this session today.

Senator Hatfield expresses his regrets that he can't be here. However, on behalf of the chairman and the subcommittee, I want to welcome each of you to this hearing today. As I indicated, we have many witnesses who wish to be heard. Therefore, in accordance with our notification to each of the witnesses, it will take some self-restraint on the part of everyone to hold our oral testimony to a minimum in order that all of you who have requested an opportunity may be heard.

I will promise you that self-restraint will be mutual. The Chair won't talk much either if you will be brief and to the point. So in keeping with those wishes, I ask that you have your detailed statements ready and they will be made a part of the record and carefully reviewed by this subcommittee. The staff does a wonderful job on this subcommittee.

Also, in this way, we will have a carefully detailed record so that anyone who is not present will be able to arrive at an independent judgment. If each witness will summarize or highlight the important points in his oral testimony, it will be most helpful to the Chair, in an effort to accomplish a great deal in a short period of time here today.

Having said that, we welcome our first group of witnesses. We are most pleased to have present the distinguished Senator from the State of Arizona, Senator Goldwater.

I assume, Senator, that you would like to quickly introduce the witnesses that are with you; is that correct?

Senator GOLDWATER. That is correct.

Senator DOMENICI. Would you do that, please.

I notice that former Congressman Rhodes is here.

I assume, Congressman, that you are going to have something to say It will be brief? You are used to that in the House in any event.

Mr. RHODES. If I say anything, Mr. Chairman, it will be very brief, but I will probably just want to associate myself with the remarks which the Governor will be making.

Senator DOMENICI. We are delighted to have you.
Senator Goldwater, you may proceed.


STATEMENT OF HON. BARRY GOLDWATER, U.S. SENATOR FROM ARIZONA Senator GOLDWATER. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. In a way, I am glad Senator Hatfield couldn't make it, because you are from the same part of the world that we are from and you have a great understanding of what lack of water really adds up to. Before I introduce the Governor, I might say we have gone 84 days now this year without a drop of rain and our annual intake out there is only 7 inches. Without rain, even the trees are looking around for dogs. [Laughter.]

I feel honored to introduce the Governor, although we have no allegiance to the same political faith. He is one member of the opposition party that I am always proud to be with, happy to be with. His family and my family are probably among the oldest non-Indian, non-Mexican families out there, and I have known him and his family all of my life. He is doing a wonderful job-that is off the record. [Laughter.] Senator DOMENICI. Strike that, please. [Laughter.]

No, we won't do that.

Senator GOLDWATER. It is a real honor and a great pleasure for me to introduce Governor Babbitt to this committee and to pay recognition to the fact that former Congressman Rhodes is also with us. I thank you Mr. Chairman.

Senator DOMENICI. Thank you very much. It is a pleasure to have you here. Governor, you may proceed. It is good to have you with us. STATEMENT OF BRUCE BABBITT, GOVERNOR OF ARIZONA


Governor BABBITT. Mr. Chairman, thank you. Let me just say at the outset my affection and esteem of Senator Goldwater is mutual and en tirely on the record. I am very pleased to have him here today. I ac knowledge the presence of Congressman Rhodes and Wesley Steine who is second only to Reed Reynolds in longevity, handiness, and skill among western water engineers.

Mr. Chairman, just to review briefly the status of the Central Arizona Project, progress continues to our great satisfaction on the Granite Reef aqueduct that is now moving toward completion, and there will be water in Phoenix in 1985 by the construction to the agricultural areas of Pinal County continues and will be very satisfactory. That is progressing under the cost-sharing system of last year. Distribution systems are being built, 20 percent local participation, which has been forthcoming. The project is moving very well. The emphasis, the focus from this year forward will be on two features as this project now begins to move to completion.


The central emphasis for the next few years will be the construction of the final leg of that acqueduct into Tucson. We are very concerned about that and very interested in progress on schedule because, as you know, Tucson is the largest city in the world with no surface water supply whatever. Tucson is living on borrowed time with ground water overdraft and I can't overemphasize the importance of this project reaching the city of Tucson in timely fashion at the end of this decade.


Beyond Tucson, the final piece of this project will be the regulatory storage and flood control in the Phoenix area. As you are aware, Mr. Chairman, that phase of this project has been the subject of considerable debate and discussion over the last 3 or 4 years, principally in the form of a search for an alternative to the Orme Dam feature that was a part of the original Central Arizona Project. We now have a strong consensus throughout Arizona for the alternative that is known. as Plan 6. We anticipate Secretary Clark will make an announcement concerning Plan 6 flood control, regulatory storage, and related features



It is with that background that I say to you and to the committee that we have only a few changes that we would propose to the President's budget. The President has proposed, on behalf of the executive branch, an appropriation of $187 million. We believe that is close, but we ask your consideration for an extra $14 million, a small increase to go to two areas. One is the Tucson aqueduct. It is our feeling that the Tucson aqueduct has the capability within the Bureau of Reclamation to spend about $63 million-it will be an additional $12 million-which would keep the Tucson aqueduct on schedule toward its 1990 completion date. We would also request an extra $2 million above and beyond the President's request for the preconstruction and design features of Plan 6 in Maricopa County.

This is the configuration of Roosevelt Dam on the Salt River, the construction of Cliff Dam on the Verde, and beginning of the New Waddell storage feature west of Phoenix. That is an important feature. It is the first year we have asked for money for preconstruction and design for Plan 6 and we believe it to be important that we invest a

small but very significant sum of money in the beginning of that phase of the project.

Mr. Chairman, anticipating the question that might come from New Mexico, I hearby reaffirm Arizona's steady and unwavering and complete support for the Orme Dam feature contained in the original authorization for the Central Arizona Project.


With that, we, on behalf of all Arizonians, express our gratitude to the committee, to the U.S. Congress, and to you personally for your assistance.

[The statement follows:]


Mr. Chairman, and members of this very important committee, I appreciate the opportunity to once again appear before you in support of funding for the continued construction of the Central Arizona Project. I assure you that the El Nino experience of last year did not wash away our great need for the Colorado River water which will be delivered to us via the project.

The administration's budget proposes $187.6 million for CAP construction in fiscal year 1985. This level of funding will permit first deliveries of Colorado River water to the Salt River Valley late in 1985 and into Pinal County in 1986 and will leave a requirement for only modest expenditures to complete the Granite Reef and Salt-Gila reaches of the aqueduct system in subsequent years.

The administration's budget calls for greatly increased construction activity next year on the final leg of the aqueduct system-the Tucson aqueduct-but stops short of the level which we believe will be necessary to assure that project water can be delivered to Tucson as scheduled. No city in the project service area has a greater need for the water and yet the schedule has slipped in recent years. In order to recoup some of the slippage, to insure no further delays, and to enable the Bureau to continue its excellent work to full capacity, I would urge that the committee increase the level of appropriation for the Tucson aqueduct from the $51.7 million in the President's budget to $63.7 million.

After many years of investigation and negotiation, strongly differing views concerning how to meet the regulatory storage and flood control requirements of the CAP have been resolved. Secretary of the Interior Bill Clark recently announced completion of the environmental evaluation process and is expected to soon select plan 6 as the replacement for the controversial Orme Dam feature of the CAP. I met recently with Secretary Clark and urged him to proceed in fiscal year 1985 with the design and the preconstruction activities on all three features of plan 6-reregulation of the project water supply imported from the Colorado River in the New Waddell feature and water conservation and flood control in the enlarged Roosevelt and new Cliff structures on the Salt and Verde Rivers respectively.

Mr. Chairman, I know that you are most familiar with the dams on the Salt River and, once again, wish to express my appreciation for your help in dam safety develop


I am pleased that the administration's proposed budget includes an item of funding for the preparation of designs and specifications and other preconstruction activity involved in providing regulatory storage for the CAP. But the need for flood control on the Salt River in the Phoenix metropolitan area is so great that I am compelled to ask the committee to include an additional $2 million in the appropriation for fiscal year 1985 with directions to the Secretary that he commence design and preconstruction of the Roosevelt and Cliff features concurrently with similar work on the New Waddell feature.

I recognize the problems of budgeting under prevailing economic conditions. But, I call your attention to the fact that Arizona will begin repaying construction costs to the

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