Mr. WOLVERTON. I am not speaking of the immediate situation creating any alarm, but I can readily visualize a condition that might be more alarming than any known at the present time. Mr. HAY. Yes. Mr. EICHER. This only refers to the investment of the funds for this purpose? Mr. HAY. Yes; and so long as they are holding this as a special fund, with respect to the present buying power or the future buying power, there would seem to be little cause for alarm. Mr. EICHER. Yes. Mr. HAY. The only thing they can use the fund for, whether the present or the future fund, would be for the purposes stated in the bill. Mr. EICHER. That is right; and that might result in a saving to the fund. Mr. HAY. Yes. Mr. EICHER. Through its investment in income-bearing securities. Mr. HAY. I do not feel that the investment of the funds would mean a diversion of the funds from this purpose so long as the securities purchased are held in this particular fund. Mr. WOLVERTON. No further questions, Mr. Chairman. Mr. CROSSER. Are there any other questions of Dr. Bacus? Mr. PEARSON. The exhibits that you are filing with your statement, I understand, substantiate the statement with respect to the methods of laws each State has in operation at the present time. Mr. BACUS. Yes; that is right. Mr. MALONEY. May I ask a question, Mr. Chairman? Mr. CROSSER. Yes; Mr. Maloney. Mr. MALONEY. Dr. Bacus, do you think the present tax is sufficient to produce a fund to take care of your desires? Mr. BACUS. The tax under the bill? Mr. MALONEY. Yes. Mr. BACUS. Yes; I believe it will be ample. Mr. MALONEY. You have not taken into your calculation anything to show that under certain conditions that might not be true, have you? In other words, where the railroads would have considerably more unemployment than ordinarily? Mr. BACUS. Well, the bill has been based, Mr. Maloney, on the assumption that railroad employment over a period of years will fluctuate. Mr. MALONEY. Yes. Mr. BACUS. We have checked our actuarial calculations with Mr. Murray Latimer, chairman of the Railroad Retirement Board, one of the outstanding authorities on unemployment insurance in this country. Incidentally, I understand, Mr. Latimer has been requested to appear before your committee. We have assumed that railroad employment will in a general way fluctuate from year to year in the future as has been true over the period of the past 10 years, including both periods of good business and periods of business depression. Mr. MALONEY. You think the tax is ample? Mr. BACUS. We believe it is; yes, sir. Mr. CROSSER. Any other questions? Mr. CROSSER. The next witness will be Mr. L. E. Keller, of Detroit, Mich. STATEMENT OF L. E. KELLER, DETROIT, MICH. Mr. KELLER. Mr. Chairman and gentlemen of the committee, my name is L. E. Keller, 61 Putnam Avenue, Detroit, Mich. I am a national officer of one of the railroad labor organizations, and I speak this morning in behalf of the 20 standard railway organizations comprising the railway labor executives' associations. I have better than 25 years' experience as a railroad employee and as a representative of railroad employees, and in the light of that information and experience, it will be my purpose to discuss some of the practical phases of this problem, and to discuss them in the light of the employees who are so thoroughly overwhelmed with the conditions they find themselves faced with under the 48 State laws. Your committee, of course, is well aware of the fact that the railroads are operated by systems and are broken down into operating divisions, and that in no way whatsoever are those operations kept within State lines. Many of the class I railroads employ men to perform services that take them daily over State lines. A situation of that kind was briefly referred to in connection with the run between Washington and New York on the Pennsylvania Railroad, and we find these train and engine service employees working daily on runs that take them into five States and into the District of Columbia. But the movement from State to State is not restricted to train and engine service groups as would probably be assumed by those who are not thoroughly familiar with the full situation. The maintenance-of-way employees represent something like 20 to 25 percent of the entire group, and many of these employees move from State to State as a regular routine performance of their duties. All of the major railroads and most of the smaller railroads operate in several States. As an example of this, the Santa Fe operates in 10 States; the Chicago, Burlington & Quincy in 11 States; the Milwaukee in 11; the Northwestern in 9; the Louisville & Nashville in 13; the Missouri Pacific in 8; the New York Central in 11; the Pennsylvania in 13 and the District of Columbia; the Frisco in 9; and the Union Pacific in 13; and so it goes. Even such small lines as the Carolina, Clinchfield & Ohio operate in four States; the Georgia & Florida in three; the Gulf, Mobile & Northern in three; the Nashville, Chattanooga & St. Louis in four; and the Oregon Short Line in five. I want to say that seniority rules apply throughout the industry because it is a thoroughly organized industry, and agreements have been entered into between the employees and representatives of the carriers, and these agreements contain rules governing seniority and promotion, and under those seniority rules the overwhelming majority of the employees are covered by seniority districts which may readily take them into two or more States in the performance of their jobs. Some of these agreements that we have with the railroads extend the seniority district or territory to the entire railroad system. Usually seniority is restricted to an operating division, but in both cases, State lines are completely disregarded. Now, as a practical situation, let me give you one illustration that should be typical of the many conditions that exist. On the Louisville & Nashville Railroad the seniority rule for many so-called bridge and building crews extends over the entire system, which embraces 13 States. Now, let us say that the bridge and building gang consists of 10 carpenters, 3 or 4 of whom live in Kentucky, 2 or 3 of whom live in Tennessee, 2 or 3 live in Alabama, and 1 or 2 live in Louisiana. They are brought together in one gang. They may work, and oftentimes they do work in any or all these 13 States because the seniority rule embraces the entire system, which runs in 13 States. Now, where are you going to make heads or tails out of State laws if we have situations like that on the railroads with no such bill as we are proposing here? As a practical reasonable, common-sense thing, we feel as railway employees that we must have a bill of this kind if we are ever going to know where we are going or where we are coming from in this whole field of unemployment compensation, and there is just not any other way out of it as we see it. Now, in the train and engine service groups for the year 1937 there were 236,275 employees. There, again, we have some 20 to 25 percent of the total group. These are principally conductors, engineers, brakemen, and firemen. Their service embraces so-called runs within their seniority districts, which require them to perform service regularly in several States. Now, how are you going to make heads or tails out of a situation with 48 different States in a situation like that which the employees are faced with every day in the week? The character of this industry is such that Congress, we think, quite wisely, has found it desirable to enact separate legislation to cover railway employees in the past. Congress enacted the National Labor Relations Act relating to other industries, and gave us the Railway Labor Act, which has been praised throughout the entire country as a splendid piece of legislation. Congress gave us a separate railroad retirement act. Ever since the days of the Adamson Act, the Hours of Service Limitation Act, and so forth, the Congress has followed a policy of dealing with railroad employees under separate legislation. We feel that in this particular question here it is doubly essential that Congress do likewise, not only because of the particular nature of the industry itself or for reasons that inspired Congress to enact separate bills in the past, but because we have an intolerable and overwhelming situation here, which just cannot work out any other way. The character of the service, as well as these precedents justify separate treatment of railway workers. The character of service in the railroad industry is so interwoven and interdependent, and State lines are so completely disregarded, that legislation such as is proposed in this bill is fully justified. It will set up uniform and standard unemployment compensation benefits. It will reduce the bookkeeping and clerical work which will otherwise be required of the carriers if we remain under 48 different State laws. It will simplify and harmonize the situation all round in such a way as to make it more desirable from the viewpoint of both the employees and the employers. With the permission of the committee, we will file for the record a list of railroads, together with the States in which each of the roads. operates for the purpose of indicating the extent to which railway employees, under service requirements, may be called upon to work in more than one State. 73643-38--8 (The list above referred to is printed in the record as follows:) SPECIFIED RAILROADS AND THE STATES IN WHICH EACH OPERATE Alton Railroad Co.: Operates mainly in Illinois and Missouri. The Ann Arbor Railroad Co.: Michigan and Ohio. The Atchison, Topeka & Santa Fe Railway Co.: Operates mainly in Illinois, Missouri, Kansas, Oklahoma, Texas, Louisiana, Colorado, New Mexico, Arizona, and California. Atlanta, Birmingham & Coast Railroad Co.: Operates mainly in Georgia. Atlantic Coast Line Railroad Co.: Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia, Alabama, and Florida. Baltimore & Ohio Railroad Co.: Operates mainly in Pennsylvania, West Virginia, Maryland, Ohio, Indiana, and Illinois. Bessemer & Lake Erie: Operates mainly in Pennsylvania. Boston & Maine Railroad: Operates mainly in Massachusetts, New Hampshire, and Maine, with branches into Vermont and New York. Carolina, Clinchfield & Ohio Railway: Mainly in South Carolina, North Carolina, Tennessee, and Virginia. Central of Georgia Railway Co.: Operates mainly in Georgia and Alabama. Central Railroad Co. of New Jersey: Operates mainly in New Jersey and Pennsylvania. Central Vermont Railway, Inc.: Operates mainly in Vermont, Massachusetts, and Connecticut. Chesapeake & Ohio Railway Co.: Operates mainly in Virginia, West Virginia, Kentucky, Ohio, and Indiana. Chicago, Burlington & Quincy Railroad Co.: Operates mainly in Illinois, Iowa, Missouri, Kansas, Nebraska, Wisconsin, Colorado, Minnesota, South Dakota, Wyoming, and Montana. Chicago & Eastern Illinois Railway Co.: Operates mainly in Illinois and Indiana. Chicago Great Western Railroad Co.: Operates mainly in Minnesota, Iowa, and Illinois. Chicago, Milwaukee, St. Paul & Pacific Railroad Co.: Operates mainly in Washington, Idaho, Montana, Michigan, Missouri, South Dakota, North Dakota, Minnesota, Iowa, Illinois, and Wisconsin. Chicago & North Western Railway Co.: Operates in Illinois, Wisconsin, Iowa, Minnesota, Michigan, North Dakota, South Dakota, Wyoming, and Nebraska. Chicago, St. Paul, Minneapolis & Omaha Railway Co.: Operates mainly in Wisconsin, Minnesota, and Nebraska. Cincinnati, New Orleans & Texas Pacific Railway Co.: Operates mainly in Kentucky and Tennessee. Colorado & Southern Railway Co.: Operates mainly in Colorado and Texas. The Delaware, Lackawanna & Western Railroad Co.: Operates mainly in New York, New Jersey, and Pennsylvania. Denver & Rio Grande Western Railroad Co.: Operates mainly in Colorado and Utah. Duluth, South Shore & Atlantic Railway Co.: Operates mainly in Michigan and Wisconsin. Elgin, Joliet & Eastern Railway Co.: Operates mainly in Indiana and Illinois. Erie Railroad Co.: Operates mainly in New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Indiana, and Illinois. Georgia & Florida Railroad: Operates in Georgia, South Carolina, and Florida. Georgia Southern & Florida Railway Co.: Operates mainly in Georgia and Florida. Great Northern: Operates mainly in Minnesota, North Dakota, South Dakota, Montana, Idaho, and Washington. Gulf, Mobile & Northern Railroad Co.: Operates in Alabama, Tennessee, and Mississippi. Illinois Central Railroad Co.: Operates mainly in Illinois, Wisconsin, Indiana, Kentucky, Louisiana, Mississippi, Tennessee, Alabama, Nebraska, Iowa, South Dakota, Missouri, and Minnesota. Indiana Harbor Belt Railroad Co.: Operates in Indiana and Illinois. Kansas City Southern Railway Co.: Operates mainly in Missouri, Kansas, Arkansas, Oklahoma, Louisiana, and Texas. Kansas, Oklahoma & Gulf Railway Co.: Operates in Kansas, Oklahoma, and Texas. Lehigh & New England Railroad Co.: Operates mainly in Pennsylvania and New Jersey. Lehigh Valley Railroad Co.: Operates in Pennsylvania, New Jersey, and New York. Los Angeles & Salt Lake Railroad Co.: Utah, Nevada, and California. Louisiana & Arkansas Railway Co. (Delaware): Operates mainly in Louisiana and Arkansas. Louisville & Nashville Railroad Co.: Operates mainly in Kentucky, Tennessee, Alabama, Florida, Mississippi, Georgia, Louisiana, North Carolina, Virginia, Illinois, Indiana, Ohio and Missouri., Maine Central Railroad Co.: Operates mainly in Maine and New Hampshire. Midland Valley Railroad Co.: Operates in Kansas, Arkansas, and Oklahoma. Minneapolis & St. Louis Railroad Co.: Operates mainly in Minnesota, Iowa, and South Dakota. Minneapolis, St. Paul & Sault Ste. Marie Railway Co.: Operates mainly in Wisconsin, Minnesota, and North Dakota. Missouri-Kansas-Texas Railroad Co.: Operates in Missouri, Kansas, Oklahoma, and Texas. Missouri Pacific Railroad Co.: Operates mainly in Missouri, Kansas, Nebraska, Colorado, Illinois, Arkansas, Louisiana, and Oklahoma. Mobile & Ohio Railroad Co.: Operates mainly in Mississippi, Alabama, Tennessee, and Illinois. Monongahela Railway Co.: Operates mainly in Pennsylvania and West Vir ginia. Nashville, Chattanooga & St. Louis Railway: Operates in Tennessee, Alabama, Georgia, and Kentucky. New Orleans, Texas & Mexico Railway Co.: Operates mainly in Texas and Louisiana. New York Central Railroad Co.: Operates in New York, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Indiana, Illinois, Kentucky, Michigan, West Virginia, Massachusetts, Missouri, and New Jersey and in Quebec and Ontario, Canada. New York, Chicago & St. Louis Railroad Co.: Ohio, Indiana, and Illinois. New York, New Haven & Hartford Railroad Co.: Southeastern New York, Massachusetts, Rhode Island, and Connecticut. New York, Susquehanna & Western Railroad Co.: Mainly in New Jersey and Pennsylvania. Norfolk Southern Railroad Co.: Operates mainly in North Carolina and Virginia. Norfolk & Western Railway Co.: Operates mainly in Virginia, West Virginia, and Ohio. Northern Pacific Railway Co.: Operates mainly in Minnesota, North Dakota, Montana, Idaho, Washington, and Wisconsin. Oregon Short Line Railroad Co.: Wyoming, Oregon, Idaho, Montana, and Utah. Oregon-Washington Railroad & Navigation Co.: Oregon, Washington, and Idaho. The Pennsylvania Railroad Co.: New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Delaware, Maryland, Virginia, West Virginia, Kentucky, Ohio, Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, Missouri, and the District of Columbia. Reading Co.: Pennsylvania and New Jersey. Rutland Railroad Co.: Operates in northern New York and Vermont. St. Joseph & Grand Island Railway Co.: Kansas and Nebraska, mainly. St. Louis-San Francisco Railway Co.: Alabama, Arkansas, Florida, Kansas, Missouri, Mississippi, Oklahoma, Tennessee, Texas. St. Louis Southwestern Railway Co.: Illinois, Missouri, Arkansas, Louisiana, Tennessee, and Texas. Seaboard Air Line Railway Co.: Operates in Virginia, North and South Carolina, Georgia, Florida, and Alabama. Southern Pacific Co.: Operates mainly in Louisiana, Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, Nevada, California, and Oregon; also in Mexico. Southern Railway Co.: Operates mainly in Virginia, North and South Carolina, Tennessee, Georgia, Alabama, Kentucky, Indiana, and Illinois. Spokane International Railway Co.: Operates mainly in Washington and Idaho. Spokane, Portland & Seattle Railway Co.: Operates in Oregon and Washington. Texas & New Orleans: Operates in Texas and Louisiana. Texas and Pacific Railway Co.: Operates in Texas, Louisiana, and Arkansas. Union Pacific Railroad Co.: Iowa, Nebraska, Wyoming, Idaho, Oregon, Washington, Missouri, Kansas, Colorado, Montana, Utah, Nevada, and California. |