a difference, who would not approve of a rational and moderate tyrany? It is not. however, Mr. Chairman, y present object, to answer the arguments, which have been so ably brought forward, to support the negative of this question. I rise to submit a few observations upon the nature of the question itself. I take the liberty of stating, that I think it an injudiciously selected question; a vague and indefinite question; a question which does not receive from every mind the same interpretation. I dare assert, Mr. Chairman, that, in this very assembly, there are various different opinions with respect to what constitutes a great man. Some will tell you, that greatness consists in rank; some, in exploits; some, in talents; some, in virtue. Thus, sir, the very premises of our discussion are unsettled and wavering; and, from unsettled and wavering premises what can proceed, but indefinite and inconclusive argu proving that the Romans were incapable The admirers of Cesar, and, of course, of B. G. Mr. Chairman F. A. I believe I am in possession of the chair-I certainly spoke first. B. G. I apprehend that I rose first. How ever, the point may be easily settled. The Chairman will decide which of us first caught his attention. Chairman. The last speaker is certainly in possession of the chair. F. A. I acquiesce in the decision. B. G. When the voice of a single man, an operate so instantaneously, in composing Already do the gentlemen on the opposite side, endeavor to strain your question to the construction, that greatness essentially consists in goodness; and they may quote Mr. Pope, and say, "Tis phrase absurd to call a villain great." Others, again, may insist, that greatness depends upon rank, and exclaim, with Milton. "Worthiest, by being good, far more than great, or high." Where are we to rest, sir, upon this doubtful basis?-this "neither sea, nor good dry land!” I confess, Mr. Chairman, that, until this point shall have been disposed of, I cannot hope tor an end to the debate; and, therefore, propose, an amendment, that, previously to the further discussion of the question, we shall determine, "what it is that constitutes a great man?" as F. A. I oppose the amendment! I oppose it, because I think it unnecessary, unprece dented, ill-timed, and indecorous F. W. I beg your pardon. Mr. Chairman, but I believe there is not any motion before you, as the gentleman's amendment has not been seconded. R. V. Mr. Chairman, I second the amend ment. Chairman. The gentleman, then, will have the goodness to submit his amendment in writing. F. A. I apprehend, sir, that your recommendation involves a question of no small importance; namely, whether the gentleman can write. B G. I thank the gentleman for his friendly insinuation, and beg leave to assure him, that if I cannot write, my deficiency is far less deplorable than his, who is a master of the art of penmanship, and makes a despicable use of it; and I dare assert, that the man, who makes a bad use of his tongue, will never use his pen to much advantage. Mr. Chairman, here is the motion, ready written, and if the writing is not mine, the dictation is; and that is more than many a man can say, who flourishes upon paper! F. A Sir, if the little gentleman that has just sat down, imagines it would give me any pleasure to hurt his feelings. I assure him he is much mistaken Mr. Chairman I object to the amendment, on two grounds; | first, because it is indecorous, with regard to you; secondly, because it is uncalled for, with regard to the question. Your experience, sir. could never have allowed you to propose a question, that required revision; and had you proposed such a question, it would have been our duty to receive it without comment. The question, in point, does not require revision. You do not ask, if Cæsar was a great warrior, or a great politician; but, if he was a great man. Surely, sir, in these enlightened times, we do not inquire what it is that constitutes a great man? Do we not refuse the name of man to him, that violates the laws of morality and religion? And, at we wish to express, that a person is eminently virtuous, do we not use that name without a single epithet? To say of any one, that he is a man, is to give him credit for the noblest endowments of the heart. To say that he is not a man, is to leave him destitute of any generous principle. The question cannot be viewed in any light but one; namely, as inquiring whether Caesar was a man of great virtues, and justifiable conduct? It he was so, our opposition will be fruitless. If he was not so, those gentlemen exert their eloquence to little purpose. B. G. Sir, I hope the big gentleman that has just sat down, will do me the justice to believe, that, as I receive little satisfaction from being offended, so I am not sedulous to find out cause for offence. If the gentleman is serious in his apology, I ought to be-and I am-satisfied. If he is not serious, I assure him, that I pity the poverty of that man's | pretensions, who thinks he can humiliate another, by reflecting upon the dimensions of his body-that least and lowest part of a man! it is not, sir, the consideration of five feet, or six, that ever yet operated in achieving a noble action, or performing a virtuous one; nor have those maxims which have instructed, or those imaginations which have delighted mankind, proceeded from how much a man could measure, in his stockings, the length of his back, or the thickness of his body. Those are considerations for your tailor; and give me leave to assure the worthy gentleman, that, though he could overlook me by a full head and a half, it would not give him the advantage of one poor eighth of an inch, with respect to heighth or breadth of soul, or intellect-the proper, the real, the only measure of a man. With regard to my amendment, Mr. Chairman, I am not anxious to press it. That I did not propose it from any disrespectful feeling towards you, I entreat you to believe. I withdraw it, and I beg you will excuse the interruption it has occasioned. Chairman. I cannot allow the last speaker to withdraw his amendment, without express ing my conviction, that, in proposing it. he was actunted solely by the desire of giving the question a greater degree of precision. I own it has been objected to, as not being so definite as it ought to be; and it is probable that we might have presented it in a less objectionable shape. However, I trust that you will proceed with the discussion; at the same time, keeping in mind, that the greatest talents, and the most brilliant achievements, are not sufficient to constitute a great man, unless his ends are virtuous and noble. F. A. Mr. Chairman, to you, sir, I am sure, I need not apologize for the freedom I have used, with regard to the gentleman who last addressed you. Believe me, sir, had I not known his great natural talents-had I not admired and valued them-I should not have presumed to rullie him into resentment, or pique him into retort. I appeared to slight him, because I knew that he was above slight. I questioned his strength, that he might be tempted to exert it; and I rejoice at his triumph, although it has been achieved by my own apparent defeat. But, upon what ground are we to acknowledge that Caesar was a great man? For iny part, I am at a loss to account for the infatuation of those who call him so; for his chief merit seems to have consisted in his talents as a warrior; and those talents he certainly employed in a cause that cannot be defended, upon any principle of morality or religion. What species of beings are we, that we laud to the skies, those men whose names live in the recollection of a field of carnage, a sacked town, or a stormed citadel? that we celebrate, at our convivial meetings, the exploits of him, who, in a single day, has more than trebled the ordinary havoc of death? that our wives and daughters weave garlands for the brow, whose sweat has cost the groans of widows and of orphans? and that our very babes are taught, to twine the arms of innocence and purity about the knees that have been used to wade in blood? I say, what species of beings are we, that we give our praise, our admiration, and our love, to that which reason, religion, interest, evory/consideration, should persuade us to code to avoid-to abhor! I do not mean to say, that war ought never to be waged; there are at times, occasions when it is expedient necessary-justifiable; but who celebrates, with songs of triumph, those commotions of the elements, that call the awful lighting into action; that hurl the inundating clouls to earth; and send the winds into the deep, to rouse its horrors? These things are necessary; but we hail them not with shouts of exultation; we do not clap our bands as they pass by us; we do not throng, in crowds, to their processions; we shudder, as we behold them! What species of beings are we? We turn, with disgust, from the sight of the common execu tioner, who, in his time, has despatched a score or two of victims, and we press to the heels of him, that, in a single day, has been the executioner of thousands! Let us not call Cæsar a great man, because he was a great warrior; if we must admire him, let us seek some other warrant for our applauses, than what proceeds from the groans and writhings of humanity! Let us, then, sir, first, examine his youthand here we are struck with his notable adventure with the pirates. These freebooters took him, as he was sailing to Rhodes; they asked twenty talents for his ransom; and, in derision of their moderation, he promised them fifty--the onus of which act of liberality was borne by the honest Milesians, who raised the money by a voluntary tax. He spent thirty-eight days with those pirates; jomed in their diversious; took his exercises among them; wrote poems and orations, which he rehearsed to them, and which, indeed, parates as they were, they did not admire; and, in short, lived among them with as much security, ease, and honor, as if he had been in Kome. And what was the sequel? His rasom arrives-they keep their compact-set him at liberty-he departs- arrives at Miletus some vessels in the port of that place-returns-attacks these saine piratestakes the greater number of them prisoners, and crucifies them to a man! -mans state of track him in his military career. by pointing No! The men whom you would select, should possess, not one, but all of these; Was this a great act in Cæsar? True! he nor, yet, should that content you. They must hid promised to do so, when they showed no be proved men-tested men-men that had, great relish for the songs and speeches which again and again, passed through the ordeal he had written among them; but should he of human temptation, without a scar, without have kept his promise? True! they were a a blemich, without a speck! You would not banditti; they had deprived him of his liberty: select a firebrand; you would not seek your bat he had eaten at their board, he had par-seconds in the tavern, or in the brothel; you taken of their diversions; he had slept among would not inquire out the man, who was them in sacred security; he had railed at oppressed with debts, contracted by lice tiousthem without retort; threatened them, and ness, debauchery, every species of profligacy! only excited delight at his freedoms. Should Who, sir, I ask, were Caesar's seconds in this he. Mr. Chairman, have crucified them? undertaking? Crebonius Curio, one of the crecited them to a man? was there not one, most vicious and debauched young men in at least he might have spared? one bluff face, Rome; a creature of Pompey's, bought off by Whose humor and confidence had pleased him the illustrious Cesar? Marcus Antonius, a above the rest? one hand, whose blunt creature of that creature's; a young man, so ohciousness he more particularly remem addicted to every kind of dissipation, that he bered? Oh! Mr. Chairman do we admire had been driven from the paternal roof; the the attachment, which a wild beast displays friend and coadjutor of that Clodius, who towards its attentive keeper; do we applaud violated the mysteries of the Bona Dea, and that sacred and general principle of nature, drove into exile the man, that had been called which allows kindness to obliterate the sense the father of his country! Paulus Emelius, of injury; and shall we give our sanction, a patrician, a consul, a friend of Pompey's, praise, and admiration, to this exploit of bought off by the great Cesar, with a bribe Caesar's! of fifteen hundred talents! Such, sir, were the abettors of Caesar. What, then. was Cæsar's object? Do we select extortioners, to enforce the laws of equity? Do we make choice of profligates, to guard the morals of society? Do we depute atheists, to preside over the rites of religion? What, I say, was Cesar's object? I will not press the answer; I need not press the answer; the premises of my argument render it unnecessary. The achievement of great objects does not belong to the vile; or of virtuous ones, to the vicious; or of religious ones, to the profane. Cesar did not associate such characters with him for the good of his country. His object was, the gratification of his own ambition-the attainment of supreme power; no matter by what means accomplished, no matter by what consequences attended. He aspired to be the highest, above the people! above the authorities! above the laws! above his country! aud, in that seat of eminence, he was content to sit; though, from the centre to the far horizon of his power, his eyes could contemplate nothing but the rain and desolation, by which he had reached it! What do we find him next about? He produces the images of Marius! that man, who, as my worthy friend has said, returned the salutations of his fellow citizens, with the blows of his assassins; and marched to the capitol, amidst the groans of his butchered Countrymen, expiring on each side of him. This was not following the steps of Marius; it was justifying them; it was expatiating one, in the language of veneration and tetfimph Lit Was yiting to the standard of Ins ambition, every recreant, that would sell the vior of his arm to any cause, no matter how bloody, how unnatural, how immoral, how sacrilegious! I shall not comment upon the circumstance, of his having been two hundred and fifty thousand pounds in debt, before he obtained any public office; neither shall I dwell upon his exhibition of three hundred and twenty pair of gladiators; his diversions in the theatre; his processions and entertainments; in which, as Plutarch says, he far outshone the most ambitious, that had gone before him, and, by which he courted the favor of the vile, the witless, the sensual, and the venal. I shall not expatiate upon the share he had in Cataliue's conspiracy. I shall not R V. Mr Chairman. I solicit your attention. The gentleman says, we ought not to rejoice at the triumphs of the warrior! Is this position, sir, to be received, without the least restriction? Let us detect the sophistry of those who support the negative of the question. A caiti enters your house at the dead hour of the night, prepared for robbery, and grasping the instrument of murder! You hear the tread of unknown fect; you rise, come upon the intruder, resist him, and lay him prostrate! Shall your wife shudder, when you approach to tell her she is safe? Shall your children shrink from you, when you say you have averted the danger, that threatened their innocent sleep? Why should they not? I'll tell you, sir: because you have followed the dictates of reason, of affection. of nature, and of God. Had you not been alarmed-notwithstanding this imminent danger, had you risen in safety, and had you found the ruffian dead at your chamber door, without a mark of violence upon him-his ready weapon lying by his hand-had you then called your family to behold the spectacle, what would they all have done? Would not some have fallen upon their knees! would not others have stood with uplift hands? would not all have been transfixed with gratitude, with adoration, that their Almighty guard had stretched his arm between them and destruction, and marked a limit, which the murderer should not pass, without the penalty of death? And is the question changed, because you are the instrument of God? It would be preposterous to say so. If, then, your wife, your children and family, shall bless the hand that has been the means of their preservation; if they shall weep for gratitude, and press to you on every side, rejoicing in the protection of your armi; shall he not hear the voice of gratulation, whose skill and valor have saved the lives of thousands; have defended cities of matrons and children, not from unexpected destruction, but from destruction, again and again anticipated-approaching before their eyes, and, at every step, acquiring additional horror! Mir, there are warriors, whose victories should be celebrated with shouts and songs--for whose brows our wives and daughters should weave garlands, and whose knees our infants should embrace-such warriors as guard the boundaries of their native land! Though they have waded through blood, fair is their aspect, Religion is the motto of their standard, and Mercy glances from their sword. And had not Caesar been such a warrior! Who were the enemies over whom he triumphed, before is rupture with Pompey? Barbarians, that laved by predatory warfare! The people, whose ancestors had once sacked Rome! who were the restless invaders of the Roman territory; and, in one of their incursions. annihilated a consular army of a hundred and twenty thousand men! a nation of robbers! ignorant of the laws of arms-regardless of leagues and treaties-the blood-hounds of havoc that destroyed for the mere gust of destroying. But, a very curious attack has been made apon the character of Cæsar; namely, that he put a few pirates to death! I question if the worthy gentleman understands what a pirate of those times signified. Probably be conceives him to have been a rough, honest, free, merry kind of fellow, that loved a roving life. and indulged himself, only now and then, in a little harinless plunder! He will not expect to be told, that he was a man, enrolled in a formidable band; possessing, at times, fleet of a thousand galleys; mak.ng frequent descents upon the Italian coasts-plundering villas, temples, and even towns! carrying eff consuls and their lictors! tearing virgins from the arms of their aged parents! murdering, in cold blood, the prisoners whom they had taken, particularly Romans; and spreading such terror over the seas, that no merchant vessel dared to put out of port, and large districts of the empire were threatened with famine! Surely, the gentleman must be ignorant of these facts; otherwise, he would not have chosen so untenable a position for attack. As to Cæsar's forgetting, that the pirate had been his host, it might, indeed. have been some ground for animadversion, had he ever remembered that he was so. Some gentlemen, truly, may be so much in love with hospitality, as to admire it, though it should be forced upon them with handcuffs and fetters; and may have so curious a taste for visiting, as never to go abroad, except upon the requisition of a bailiff; or value an entertainment, unless the host turns the key upon them, and feasts them in a dungeon, with walls a yard thick, and windows doublebarred But, as such fancies cannot be called common, Cæsar. I think, may escape without censure for not having indulged in them. And Cesar is to be condemned, because he produced the images of Marius, and revived his memory and honors! Now, sir, 1 conceive, a weaker ground of accusation could not have been selected; for the mere circumstance of Marius's having been related to Cæsar by marriage, presents a very natural excuse for such a proceeding; particularly, as it took place upon the death of Cesar's aunt, who was the wife of Marius I fear the worthy gentleman does not follow Bacon's recommendation, and chew and digest the nutritious food, which historical reading presents to the mind; otherwise, he must have perceived, that Caesar's conduct, en this occasion, not only admitted of excuse, but even challenged commendation. Let him return to the page which he has examined, I fear, too superficially, and he will find, that. up to that time, several of Sylla's partisanspartisans in his murders-remained in Rome lived there, in peace, in safety-perhaps in power; he will find the general assertion, that Caesar's conduct, in having revived the memory of Marius. incensed the nobility; and the particular assertion, that Catulus necused him before the Senate-this Catulus had been the distinguished friend of Sylla-had been raised, by Sylla, to the consulship; and, at Sylla's death had preserved his remains from the deserved dishonor of an ignominious burial; had procured him the most magnificent funeral, that had ever been seen in Rome and caused the vestals and poutaices to sing bymns, in praise of the man, who, as it has been justly said, converted Rome into shambles, with his butcheries! he will find that Casar auswered the invectives of Catulus, and was acquitted with high applauses; and he, thereupon, attacked the remaining partisans of Sylla, brought them to trial, and having convicted such as had imbrue their hands in the blood of their fellow citizens, caused them to be condemned to death, or to perpetual punishment! Let us, sir, do justice to the dead, though their interests be parted from ours, by the lapse of a hundred generations; and, as this noble net of Caesar's followed the revival of his uncle's honors, let us believe, that he revived his uncle's honors for the purpose of performing this noble act--that the memory of Sylla's enemy, being opposed to the memory of Sylla, might deprive it of that power, which gave impunity to murder, and guarded sacrilege from vengeance! As to the assertion, that Caesar's aims may be ascertained, by examining the character of those whom he associated with him, it must go for nothing. The gentleman must recollect, that those very men had been the abettors of Pompey-had been employed by Pompeyaye! and with the sanction of the senate-in carrying on the measures which he adopted against Cesar. Our cause may rest upon one single fact: Rome was happy, prosperous, and honored, under Cesar's government; and I shall have the hardihood to assert, that he, whose rule secures the happiness, prosperity, and glory of a untion, deserves to rule it. W. M. Sir, if you are not indebted to the gentleman that has just addressed you, I am sure the fault is not his. He has made you a present of a wife, and a fine thriving family, with all the happy etceteras. Allow me, sir, to pay my compliments to you, in your new character; allow me to congratulate you upon your having escaped the bachelor's tax; allow me to give you joy of a title, which becomes your grave deportment-which you wear with a peculiar grace-and which, I fervently trust. you will wear long! Yet, let me hope, Mr. Chairman, that you will sometimes remember your late affectionate fraternity, now disconsolate at the loss they have sustained. Let me presume, that you will sometimes steal yourself away from the lullaby of the nurse, and the prattling of the children, to visit your old companions. Your condescension will not be unprofitable. From the contemplation of our desolate state, you will turn, with a livelier zest, to your own little domestic circle; your heart will feel the prouder by the contrast; and, in the fullness of your joy. you will sich an involuntary blessing upon the day, that first introduced you to the acquain tance of the worthy gentleman! You know, Mr. Chairman, I never prided myself upon my talents for speaking. You must, therefore, attribute my present pre sumption, to the surprise which I feel, at learning that you managed your courtship so cunningly, as to bring it to a conclusion, without the knowledge of the mistress you wooed. the parson that performed the ceremony, and even without your own privacy! However, sir, as I have risen, I shall venture an observation or two, upon the question before me. And here, Mr. Chairman. I feel myself tolerably bold, for I have a good cause, and that is more than half the battle; sir, it is the whole of the battle; it is the victory itself; for, though Truth should be repulsed a hundred times. she will be triumphant at last. Defeated again, and again, she returus unwearied. whole, and confident, to the charge-because she 18 immortal! "As easy may you the intrenchant air With your keen sword impress, as make her bleed." But this kind of style does not belong to me, Mr. Chairman. Unfortunately, I ain a fellow so given to jesting, that I am always thought to be most in jest, when I appear to be serious; therefore, sir, I must talk to you in my own way-catching at the ideas just as they present themselves; and giving them to you without examination, or order, or system, or any thing else that bespeaks a man of a sedate habit of thinking confiding every thing, as I said before, to the goodness of my cause. And, first of all, sir, I have not the least idea of calling a man great, because he has been a great conqueror! I do not like what are called your great conquerors! your gentlemen that have slain their tens of thousands, and fought more battles than they are years old! I care not in what cause they may have been engaged-that is the last consideration: for the very best cause may be entrusted to the very worst man; that is with respect to morals, principles, and so forth. It is not virtue that is requisite to form such characters; it is the contempt of death, enterprise, cuming. skill, resolution; and these may be found in a man who does not possess one single recommendation besides. How many a renowned general has turned his arms against the very cause, in whose defence he first took thein up-as Cæsar did-Caesar, who was com missioned by his ecuntry, to subdue the Gauls. and then commissioned himself to subdue his country! I wonder that any man, who has a regard for common sense, or plain honesty, can so far forget himself, as to justify Caesar's conduct in this particular. I shall state a very simple case to you. Mr. Chairman. You have a very large estate; you employ a couple of stewards to assist you in the management of it; and you send one of them to reside in the most distant part of it. Well, sir; this steward is a fellow of address; he manages his little government very skilfully; keeps your tenants in due subjection, and your servants in admirable order; at the same time, taking care to secure himself in their good graces, by indulgences, and gifts, and flatteries, and every effective means of engaging esteem. Well, sir; in process of time, you determine to dismiss this steward; but you retain the other. You recal him, that he may give an account of himself, and receive |