Lorain has more than an ordinary interest in seeing the obvious injustice in this bill corrected, since it is the home of the ship-to-shore service on the Great Lakes. Conceived and developed by the Lorain Radio Corporation, the service has just begun to come into its own. The 1937 season should see 100 boats with telephone equipment. But if this new law requires them to install wireless telegraph equipment, obviously the market for wireless telephone service will vanish.

If the real purpose of the bill is to provide for safety of passengers and members of the crew, it is only fair that it be amended to include either radiotelephone or radiotelegraph.

Unless there are any questions, Senator, then I think that concludes my remarks.

Senator WHITE. Yes; there are no questions.

STATEMENT OF L. H. KENT, REPRESENTING THE PERE
MARQUETTE RAILWAY

The CHAIRMAN. I believe Mr. Kent will be our next speaker. Mr. KENT. Due to the fact that we had a very short notice of this meeting, we should like the privilege of submitting a brief to this committee, possibly tomorrow.

Senator WHITE. If you submit it tomorrow, it will be received. Mr. KENT. Very well, sir, we shall have it in your hands tomorrow. (The brief referred to is on file with the Committee on Commerce.)

STATEMENT OF D. T. WHITLOCK, REPRESENTING THE INTERNATIONAL SHIPMASTERS OF THE GREAT LAKES, CLEVELAND, OHIO

Senator WHITE. I believe Mr. Whitlock is next in order.

Mr. WHITLOCK. We have over 1,000 members in Buffalo, Chicago, Duluth, Cleveland, and Toledo. I should like to read a clipping from one of the newspapers.

Senator WHITE. I shall let you read this; but I must draw the line upon reading newspaper editorials into the record. I am perfectly willing to hear you gentlemen testify, but when you start reading articles into the record, there is no end. However, go ahead with this particular one.

Mr. WHITLOCK. It is as follows [reading]:

Members of the International Shipmasters claimed that in the congested area of the Great Lakes the installation of wireless telegraph on all ships would interfere with and practically destroy the use of the radio-direction finder, one of the greatest aids to navigation on the Great Lakes.

All

I am captain of the steamer Malietoa on the Great Lakes. our ships are equipped with radio-direction finders. I have had 11 years' experience with the radio-direction finder, day and night; and when any other ship is sending a wireless telegraph message, our direction finder is interfered with and we cannot use it..

We have certain ranges we must stay on, with separate courses. Perhaps you would care to look at this chart, which shows that we have the up-bound course and the down-bound course, in order to avoid collision.

Senator WHITE. Yes.

Mr. WHITLOCK. In order to stay on our down-bound course, for instance, we have to contend with wind and current drift. When we leave Whitefish Point, we take a bearing on Manitou Island;

and in order to keep on course, we have to keep on taking bearings on Manitou Island. And as I said before, we cannot use that direction-finder if any ship is sending with its wireless telegraph.

Senator WHITE. Just what sending with the wireless telegraph do you mean?

Mr. WHITLOCK. Well, I do not know exactly how to state it; but when any ship is in sight and is using its telegraph, we cannot use our direction-finder.

Senator WHITE. That is a new thought to me. Of course, they have been using direction-finders for some time.

Mr. HAGEMAN. We have here gentlemen who can explain that situation on the Great Lakes.

Mr. WHITLOCK. I cannot tell you why that condition exists.

But

I have had 11 years' experience, day and night; and we cannot use our direction-finder sets at all when anybody is sending with a wireless telegraph.

Senator WHITE. We have had testimony as to the number of telephones in use on ships on the Great Lakes. How many ships are equipped with telegraphic communication sets?

Mr. WHITLOCK. Wireless telegraph, 37; other types, 159.
Senator WHITE. Those are American ships only?

Mr. WHITLOCK. No; I think this figure is for Canadian ships, too. Mr. HAGEMAN. I think the picture has changed since then; I do not agree with that figure.

Mr. WHITLOCK. We have 423 direction-finders in use on the Great Lakes.

Senator WHITE. Do you have anything further to tell us?

Mr. WHITLOCK. I just wish to stress the importance of the direction-finder. Many times we are driven to the north shore of Lake Superior; and there are many rock peaks and pinnacles on the north shore of Lake Superior that are not marked; consequently we have to use our direction-finders in order to avoid running on these peaks. Senator WHITE. Of course, I understand generally the use of direction-finders.

Mr. WHITLOCK. Yes, sir.

Senator WHITE. Is there anything further?
Mr. WHITLOCK. I think that is all.

Thank you.

STATEMENT OF R. F. WOODFORD, REPRESENTING THE WILSON TRANSIT CO., CLEVELAND, OHIO, AND PAST PRESIDENT OF THE SHIPMASTERS' ASSOCIATION

Senator WHITE. We shall be glad to hear you, Mr. Woodford. Mr. WOODFORD. I am here on behalf of the Wilson Transit Co., of Cleveland, Ohio, and am a past president of the Shipmasters' Association.

During the past summer I had the great pleasure of talking from my ship to Senator Copeland. And I am only sorry that I did not have the pleasure of talking to you, Senator White.

Senator Copeland had a party of four or five men from down here-shipbuilders and other men; and I had a very interesting chat with him. I was in the middle of Lake Superior, with no one around and with nothing to see. It was very interesting to have such a talk with the Senator.

With our radio telephone, in all our experience with it, we have never dialed for the station of another ship without getting it. Senator WHITE. Mr. Woodford, I think that you do not need to spend any time in arguing about the usefulness of the radio telephone; I am sure we can all assume its usefulness.

Mr. WOODFORD. I have here a picture of one of our ships; and you can see the difference between our ship and the ocean-going ship that is represented by the model placed at the end of this room. Our ship is about 450 feet from foremast to mainmast, and it is between those two points that we must erect the antenna required for radio telegraphic use. In that type of ship, I have had the experience, when out in a gale of wind on two different occasions, of having that antenna blow away, or fall down, or roll down, and then, of course, we had no communication at all. Because we could not cross the deck to the other mast; the seas are all over the deck, and in many cases the decks are all iced up, as well. But with the radio telephone we have a permanent antenna from the foremast down to the bridge deck, and that takes care of the whole thing.

Last winter I also had the pleasure of meeting Captain Fried, along with Captain Sheppard. It was a real pleasure to meet a man who has done as much as he has done. Of course, Captain Fried did all of his fine work in connection with the use of the wireless telegraph. However, we have a man on the Lakes who has made. five rescues and never had anything but a red flannel shirt waved at him. That is an actual fact. He is a shipmaster up there today. I cannot say that he has saved more men than Captain Fried, but he has made five rescues and been awarded a congressional medal for bravery.

In connection with the use of the wireless telegraph, up on the Lakes we have found places with dead spots. I have been in those spots, too, on two different occasions when the wireless operator could not receive or send out messages which could be received. On the other hand, we have never had that trouble with the wireless telephone. We have talked from ship to ship, 500 miles; and that is within my actual experience. And we can talk any distance on the Lakes by working through a shore station and back to a ship, you see. But ship-to-ship we have actually talked 500 miles; and that fact speaks a great deal for the telephone service that we have. I think that is about all I have to say, except that I have been on the Lakes 35 years, and that this is a wonderful thing.

Thank you.

Senator WHITE. Thank you, sir.

STATEMENT OF ALEXANDER T. WOOD, MARINE SUPERINTENDENT OF THE WILSON TRANSIT CO., CLEVELAND, OHIO

Senator WHITE. Mr. Wood, will you give your name to the reporter?

Mr. WOOD. I am Alexander T. Wood, and I represent the Wilson Transit Co. of Cleveland Ohio, which owns and operates 14 cargo ships on the Great Lakes.

While I recognize the desirability of uniformity in legislation of this type, I am objecting to the bill as drawn, in that it does not fit. the conditions surrounding the operation of ships on the Great Lakes..

The bill may be ideal insofar as it regulates radio communication on ships engaged in the international trade on the high seas, but the principles applying to shipping on the high seas do not hold true when applied to that on the Great Lakes.

The Canadian law seems to recognize this, in exempting all of their ships under 5,000 gross tons, on the Great Lakes. All Canadian tonnage on the Lakes, therefore, is exempt from radio except 18 ships. On the other hand, there are 210 ships of American registry, over 5,000 gross tons, on the Great Lakes, all of which would be affected if any legislation were drawn in conformity with the tonnage limitations of the Canadian law. This bill, however, goes further than that and requires all ships of 1,600 tons gross and over to be equipped with radio.

Our standards of efficiency and safety, on the whole, are higher than the Canadian standards, and probably are higher than in any other part of the world. We have a great many direction-finders. There are 25 percent of the gyro-compasses of the world, installed on ships of the Great Lakes; and our safety standards are very high.

It seems to me that American Great Lakes commerce should not be hampered to a greater extent than that of our Canadian competitors. Each additional burden lessens our opportunities to compete with the Canadians. The rate on grain from Fort William to Buffalo, a distance of about 800 miles, has been as low as 25 cents a ton, compared with an American ore rate of 70 cents a ton for a shorter voyage. The rates on coal moving from the United States to Canada-coal which at one time was largely carried in American ships-is now so low that it is almost exclusively a Canadian business.

This bill, as drawn, would affect every standard bulk ship on the Great Lakes. There are also problems involved in the housing facilities on ships under 5,000 gross tons. The three-watch system taxed to the utmost the facilities on some of the smaller ships; and the addition of accommodations for up to three additional men and a separate radio room would present serious difficulties.

Now, a word about the radiotelephone. Our company had nine ships equipped with radiotelephone last season, and we handled over 600 calls without a single failure. I have here a record of the messages received by me from our ships-which shows the practical application of the radiotelephone. These are actual messages receivedas taken from our files.

Senator WHITE. Do you wish to have that incorporated in the record?

Mr. WOOD. I do not believe so.

Senator WHITE. Perhaps you would like to file that with the committee.

Mr. WOOD. I shall leave one or two of these with the committee. Senator WHITE. Very well. Then, if you will leave those with the committee, that will take care of the matter.

Mr. WOOD. Yes, sir.

After 3 years' experience with the radiotelephone, I can see no place where the telephone cannot accomplish the same results as the radiotelegraph, even to the extent of communication with ships equipped with radiotelegraph, through the shore station. This bill does not recognize this splendid instrument as developed on the Great Lakes, presumably because it does not fit in with the regulations

drawn up with respect to communications on the high seas. We have a common_tongue on the Great Lakes; and although some may feel that a St. Lawrence Seaway will make the Great Lakes international, or could do so, this event is so far in the distant future that conditions existing at such a time can scarcely be anticipated today, and we must wait until such a time comes, in order to ascertain just what conditions might exist and how they are to be dealt with. However, I doubt very much if any of us will have to worry about that condition.

Το my mind the radiotelephone is superior to the radiotelegraph, in that it gives instantaneous two-way communication. I recall that a few years ago one of our ships was forced out of the channel at the entrance to the Detroit River by floating ice. This ship was equipped with radiotelegraph, and it was only after an exchange of several radiotelegraph messages that we had a picture of her predicament. With radiotelephone we should have had a complete picture in a very, few minutes; we should be able to discuss the situation with the master and decide on the best procedure. There would be no guessing as to what interpretation to place on a radio message, as in the above case; but every detail could be talked over and understood by both the master and ourselves.

I cannot say too much in praise of the radiotelephone, after 3 years of actual experience. Its development marks a great and new advance of science, and its progress should not be hampered by legislation. Rather, it should be encouraged, as there is no doubt in my mind as to its practical application.

I therefore heartily endorse the amendments which will be presented by the Lake Carriers' Association.

Thank you, Senator White.

Senator WHITE. Thank you.

STATEMENT OF T. F. ZEALAND, MARINE SUPERINTENDENT OF THE INTERLAKE STEAMSHIP CO., CLEVELAND, OHIO

Senator WHITE. Mr. Zealand will be next, I understand.

Mr. ZEALAND. I represent the Interlake Steamship Co., as its marine superintendent. I was formerly a Great Lakes steamship masterand I might say, a former Great Lakes deckhand.

With respect to this bill, we as an operating company do not disapprove of the purpose of the bill. We do object to the wording of it, which ties up the communication to one particular line. We have, or will have this spring, five of our ships equipped with the telephone. We do not believe that we should be burdened to the extent of equipping all of our ships-in view of competition with the Canadian trade. We are putting on these telephones; and while we did take off 14 wireless telegraph installations which we had on for a number of years, those were taken off because we simply figured they were no good to us.

However, our position is one of helping to develop this apparatus on the Lakes; we feel that every fellow should do a little bit toward greater safety of property and of life. We do not believe, however, that every man-to use a figure of speech-who goes bathing at the beach should be qualified as a lifesaver.

But with our boats on the Lakes-spaced, I should say, on the. average not more than 8 miles apart-there is no time when a master