Q. Do you know what the material is upon which the Republican ticket is printed?— A. No, sir; I don't know. It is different from any other paper. I have had no experience in paper.

Q. When lightly folded would that Republican ticket remain folded or would it be apt to spring open?-A. Spring open.

Q. If another ticket were folded in it, under such circumstances, would they be apt to come apart?-A. Yes, sir; they would.

(Objected to as leading and immaterial, for the reason that there is no evidence of tickets being thus folded.)

Q. You say you attended at that election. Could you tell that Republican ticket by sight when it was voted from the Democratic ticket?-A. Yes, sir; every one of them. Q. Could you tell it by handling?-A. Yes, sir.

Q. Could the inspector and other election officers tell by these Republican tickets when folded with the names of the candidates inside whether or not the person voting them was voting the Republican ticket?-A. They knew the Republican ticket. They could not tell whether they were scratched or not. We knew they were Republican tickets. We could not tell anything about the scratching until we opened them.

Q. Could persons looking on at the polls standing away from the box tell those tickets? (Objected to as incompetent and immaterial, for the reason that the witness cannot tell what persons could see.)

A. Yes, sir. They seemed to have them all counted up pretty well.

Q. Was the secrecy of the ballot destroyed or impaired at that precinct where you acted as judge by the use of that Republican ticket?

(Objected to as immaterial and incompetent, for the reason that it is a conclusion of law.)

A. I thought it was partially.

Q. How many such tickets, if you know, were voted by the Republicans at that precinct?-A. I do not know; I could not say that they were all; I think the majority of them were.

Q. I will ask you how many votes were cast there, if you know--both sides?—A. I forget now; I know about; we had between 600 and 700.

Q. The majority Democratic?-A. The majority is Republican.

Cross-examination by Mr. PEELLE:

Q. What precinct and ward were you one of the judges in?-A. The second precinct of the tenth ward.

Q. Did you receive any of the tickets as they were handed in by the voters?—A. Yes, sir.

Q. State if any complaints were made to the board there that day by any one as to the character of the Republican ticket?-A. We were all talking of it; there was no complaint made to us; the board talked about it themselves, and the men outside were talking about the tickets being so thick.

Q. There was no complaint came to the board from any one concerning the character of the Republican ticket?-A. There was in the afternoon. Mr. English's son-in-law came up and asked one or two questions about the ticket.

Q. What is his name?-A. Doctor Walling.

Q. What did he say?-A. He came up and asked the judges if we knew that the Democratic tickets were being copied. That is, if Mr. Peelle's name had been printed on Mr. English's ticket.

Q. I am not asking you about anything except these Republican tickets. I am asking you if any complaint was made to the board by any one about the character of these Republican tickets.-A. No, sir. No outsider made any complaint. They were all talking about it; the challengers outside.

Q. You say you have no knowledge as to the different qualities of paper?-A. No, sir. Q. You do not know what that Republican ticket is printed on?-Â. No, sir. I know it is thick paper. I don't know what the character of the paper is.

Q. You don't know what the Democratic ticket is on ?-A. No, sir.

Q. Do you know of any one who was misled or deceived in voting at that precinct on account of the Republican ticket being printed on that kind of paper?-A. No, sir. I believe not at present.

Q. Do you know of any one who would have voted differently if the Republican ticket had been printed on the same kind of paper that the Democratic ticket was printed on?— A. I don't know that I do.

Q. Were you there when they were counted?-A. Yes, sir.

Q. Did you find Republican tickets that had been folded together and two tickets voted by any one person?-A. I don't think I did last year. I do not remember now. Q. Then there was no double voting at that precinct?—A. I don't think there was.

Q. All the Republican tickets were the same kind, were they not?-A. I think they were. I will not say positively about that. I know the majority of them were these thick tickets, and I think perhaps all of them were.

Q. There was no tissue ballots there, or anything of that kind?—A. No, sir.

Re-examination by Mr. WILSON:

Q. Were you ever judge of an election before? A. Yes, sir. I have been there about ten or twelve years.

Q. Did you ever see tickets printed on material like this Republican ticket before? (Objected to as immaterial.)

A. No, sir. Not that thick.

W. F. CHRISTIAN.

The further taking of these depositions was, by consent of both parties, adjourned until to-morrow (Friday, October 5, 1883), at 2 p. m.

FRIDAY, October 5, 1883.

The parties met pursuant to adjournment, and the further taking of these depositions was, by consent of both parties, adjourned until to-morrow (Saturday, October 6, 1883), at 10 o'clock a. m.

Parties met pursuant to adjournment.

SATURDAY, October 6-10 a. m.

JOHN JOHNSON, being first duly sworn, testified as follows:

Direct examination by Mr. WILSON, attorney for Mr. English:

Question. State your name, age, and residence.-Answer. I was 53 years old on the 16th day of last April. I lived in Wayne Township, in this county, pretty nearly 53 years. I now live in this city, at 276 North West street.

Q. Were you in the city on the day of the Congressional election, November 7, 1882, and did you attend the same?-A. I was at the election, out in Wayne Township.

Q. Did you occupy any official position?-A. I was one of the judges of that election at a voting precinct in that township.

Q. Which precinct was that?-A. That is precinct No. 4. It was cut out of what was called the Mount Jackson precinct, and was located on the Crawfordsville road, on a cross-road right across from the asylum to the poor farm.

Q. I will ask you who were the candidates for Congress at that election in this district? A. William E. English on the Democratic, and Stanton J. Peelle on the Republican.

Q. Who was the National candidate for Congress?-A. I forget him. I don't think there was more than three or four votes cast there for him.

Q. I call your attention to this ticket, marked as Exhibit B to the deposition of W. O. De Vay, and I will ask you if the Republican ticket voted at that election was on material of that character?-A. I think it was. I know we could designate them very distinctly from the Democratic ticket, because the inspector laid them out to one side, and we counted by fives and tens-probably by fives, and he would lay out five Republican tickets when he would come to them, and lay them to one side, and that is the way we designated them. We could tell by the material they were on.

Q. Could you do that without opening them ?—A. Yes, sir; I laid them aside that way without opening them. You could tell them very readily.

Q. I will call your attention to the ticket as marked Exhibit C to the deposition of Mr. De Vay, and I will ask you if that is the Democratic ticket you refer to as having been voted at that election?-A. I think it is the same ticket, as near as I could tell now. Q. When lightly folded would that Republican ticket remain folded or be apt to spring open?

(Objected to as immaterial and incompetent, for the reason that there is no evidence that the ticket was lightly folded when voted.)

A. Yes, sir; it would.

Q. If another ticket was folded inside of it—A. [Interrupting.] I did not see any other tickets folded inside of it.

Q. If another ticket were folded inside of it, and they were dropped into the box after being thus folded together, would they be apt to spring open and thus release the inclosed ticket?

(Objected to as incompetent and immaterial.)

A. Yes, sir; I think it would.

Q. Could you distinguish the Republican ticket by sight ?—A. Yes, sir.

Q. Could you distinguish it by handling it?-A. Yes, sir.

Q. You were one of the judges of that election?-A. Yes, sir.

Q. When I say by sight and touch, I mean you could distinguish them that way when folded.-A. The inspector and judges and all could distinguish them, or lay them to one side. We could tell them by the feeling of them.

Q. Without opening them?-A. Yes, sir; they were different from the paper our tickets were on. They were on heavier paper.

Q. Did you ever know a ticket similar to that that the Republicans used to be used at any election in this State before?

(Objected to as immaterial.)

A. I do not know as I ever saw any before.

Q. How many tickets were voted at that precinct, Democratic, Republican, and National?-A. I think there was a little over 300. We divided our voting places to Mount Jackson. We had 600 and something in the precinct and we divided. Ours was not quite as large as theirs. It was something in the neighborhood of 300.

Q. How many of those tickets were Republican, if you know?—I could not say that. I did not give it much thought after the election.

Q. Which has the majority, the Democrats or the Republicans?-A. In our precinct I think the Democrats have a majority on a close vote, but how the Congressional vote was I could not say now. I have not thought much about it since.

Cross-examination by Mr. PEELLE,

Q. What are your politics?-A. I am a Democrat, sir.

Q. You are living in the city now?-A. Yes, sir.

Q. What is your business now?—A. I am manufacturing brick, and farming, and doing a little of everything that a man can to keep out of mischief.

Q. You were one of the judges at precinct No. 4, in Wayne Township, last November? A. Yes, sir.

Q. You say there were none of the Republican tickets that were folded together; you said you saw none of them voted that were folded together?-A. I said I saw none with the tickets inside of them.

Q. Did you see any Democratic tickets that were that way?-A. No, sir.

Q. You saw none of either kind?-A. No, sir.

Q. Was there any complaint made to the board by any one upon the outside as to the character of the Republican tickets?-A. There was some comment upon it.

Q. Was there any complaint?-No, sir; I do not think there was.

Q. Do the Democrats have a majority in that precinct?—A. I think they have a small majority.

Q. Do they have any majority in the township?-A. I don't think we have a majority of Democratic voters. We have a good many good Republican votes with us that help us carry the township sometimes. It is not really done by Democrats.

Q. Is the precinct of which you were a judge the precinct at which the attendants voted from the insane asylum?-A. No, sir. The attendants voted at Mount Jackson precinct.

Q. You have no knowledge whatever as to the quality of paper?—A. Only what I see there.

Q. You can tell what is heavier from lighter paper?-A. We generally took it upon ourselves at the polls

Q. I am not asking you that. I am asking you if you have any special knowledge as to the different qualities of paper.-A. The only knowledge I have is what I saw at the polls.

Q. Simply that one paper is heavier than the other?-A. Yes, sir; that is all; only what I see.

Re-examination by Mr. WILSON:

Q. Mr. Peelle's question, I believe, is that you have no particular knowledge of paper. You mean by that that you are not an expert?-A. No, sir; I am not an expert.

Q. You have the knowledge which the average citizen has?—A. I can tell when I see thick paper or thin paper. I am not a manufacturer of paper or anything of that kind, but I can tell when I take hold of a ticket or piece of paper if it is heavier than another. It does not take an expert to tell that.

Q. Who was the inspector out there?-A. William Watt.

Q. What are his politics?-A. A Republican.

Q. Was the number of votes in your precinct in excess of the number of names you had on your poll books?-A. Yes, sir.

Q. How many?-A. I think there was six tickets.

Recross-examination by Mr. PEELLE:

Q. Six more tickets than names on the poll-list?-A. Yes, sir.

Q. What is the Democratic majority in that precinct?-A. I could have told you a while ago. I cannot tell you now. I have forgotten it.

Q. How much larger was it than before?-A. It was not any larger.

Q. Was it not about 12 or 13 votes larger than it was before?-A. That precinct is a new precinct and

Q. Was there not 12 or 13 votes more in that precinct at the election in last November than there was at the spring election before?-A. I do not recollect that.

Q. You frequently have been on election boards before, have you?-A. Yes, sir. Q. I will ask you if it has not been a frequent occurrence, as shown by your observation, that there were frequently more tickets than there are names, and vice versa, at election precincts?-A. I don't think I have known more than one or two before, and those were voted doubled together. I was at the Mount Jackson precinct at one time and there was one Republican ticket and a Democratic ticket folded together.

Q. Do you know of any man who voted that day who voted more than one ballot?— A. No, sir; I do not.

Q. You heard of no such thing?—A. I did not hear of anything like that.

ELIHUE R. PAYNE, being first duly sworn, testified as follows:

JOHN JOHNSON.

Direct examination by Mr. WILSON, attorney for Mr. English:

Question. State your name, age, and residence.-Answer. Elihue R. Payne; my age is 38, and I reside No. 293 East New York street. Indianapolis, Indiana.

Q. How long have you lived in Indiana?-A. All my life.

Q. How long have you lived in this city?-A. I have lived here since 1871.

Q. Were you in the city of Indianapolis at the time of the Congressional election, November 7, 1882?-A. Yes, sir.

Q. Did you attend that election?-A. I was clerk of the poll up there in the second precinct of the ninth ward. I was the Democratic clerk, and Mr. Harvey was the Republican clerk.

Q. Did you see the Republican ticket voted at that election for Stanton J. Peelle for Congress? A. Yes, sir; I saw the ticket that was voted.

Q. I call your attention to the ticket marked Exhibit B to the deposition of Mr. De Vay, and headed Republican Ticket-was that the ticket that was voted at that election for Stanton J. Peelle for Congress ?—A. Yes, sir; that is the Republican ticket.

Q. Mr. Peelle was the candidate on that ticket for Congress? A. Yes, sir.

Q. I will ask you, when lightly folded would that Republican ticket remain folded, or would it spring open?

(Objected to as immaterial and incompetent, for the reason that there is no evidence that the tickets were lightly folded when voted.)

A. Well, when the inspector or the judges counted the ticket out, when they were laying there on the table they would kind o'fly up a little and open out.

Q. If another ticket were folded in one of those tickets, would it be apt to spring open and release the inclosed ticket when dropped into the ballot-box, or when shaken up? (Objected to as immaterial, &c.)

A. Well, from the impression I had, or from the way I would look at the ticket, if they were to put tickets in there they could be shaken out.

Q. I call your attention to the ticket marked Exhibit C to the testimony of Mr. De Vay, and I will ask you if that is the ticket voted by the Democrats at that election for Mr. English for Congress?-A. Yes, sir; that is the original Democratic ticket.

Q. Could you distinguish the Republican tickets voted at that election from the Democratic tickets voted there?-A. Yes, sir.

Q. Could you distinguish it by sight?

(Objected to as leading.)

A. The Republican ticket was on thicker paper than the Democratic ticket and made a bigger bulk and looked larger together when they were counted out by fives.

Q. Could you distinguish it, then, by sight?

(Objected to as leading.)

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Could you distinguish it by handling and touching?

(Objected to as leading.)

A. Yes, sir; I could tell the difference between the tickets by the looks of them.
Q. You say you were clerk?-A. Yes, sir.

Q. As a clerk acting on that board did you in fact distinguish the Republican ticket from the Democratic ticket?-A. Well, the man would put the ticket in the box-I don't know what you call him, whether he was the inspector or not-and we could gen

erally tell.

When the ticket went into the box we would say to ourselves, "There goes"---one kind of a ticket or there goes another.

Q. How many votes were cast at your precinct at that election?

(Objected to as immaterial, for the reason that the returns will show for themselves.) A. I don't recollect the exact number that was cast in that precinct. I think it was somewhere like 400-it was 431.

Q. Did the Democrats or Republicans have a majority?-A. The Democrats had a majority on the State ticket.

Q. How many votes were there for the Republican ticket at that precinct?-A. Well, I cannot exactly tell; it has been so long ago. They ran about 190, I think; somewhere along there, or 150 or 160 along up to 300. We had some majority there, but I forget now how much, but quite a difference in some of it.

Q. The ticket voted there was this Republican ticket that I have shown you?—A. Yes, sir.

Cross-examination by Mr. PEELLE:

Q. I believe you stated that you were a Democrat in politics?-A. Yes, sir; I am inclined that way.

Q. Had you any wager up on the result of the Congressional election last November?— A. No, sir; not a cent.

Q. You were clerk to the board?-A. Yes, sir.

Q. I understood you to say when the tickets were deposited you could tell the Democratic ticket from the Republican ticket, and vice versa?—A. Yes, sir; from the looks of them.

Q. You could distinguish the Democratic ticket from the Republican ticket?—A. Yes, sir.

Q. And in the same way you could the Republican ticket from the Democratic ticket, in consequence of the quality of the paper or the look and weight of the paper?—A. From the size of the ticket. The Democratic ticket was smaller than the Republican. Q. If you were looking you could always tell when the Democratic ticket went indistinguish it from the Republican ticket?-A. I could distinguish them. the same kind of a ticket.

It was not

Q. My point is: You could distinguith one ticket from the other?-A. Yes, sir. I think anybody could by seeing them laying alongside of one another at any place. Q. They were both plain white paper, were they not?-A. Yes, sir. One of them was heavier paper than the other. I saw tickets there with a kind of a glazed appearance, I thought.

Q. They were both plain white?-A. They were both plain white.

Q. The Democratic ticket would fly up very nearly as much as the Republican when it was lightly folded?-A. Well, I did not notice them particularly. They all laid out there together.

Q. You did not notice them particularly?-A. No, sir. You take that one thrown down, would fly up-that is, have the largest appearance-larger than the Democratic ticket, but they probably both looked the same.

Q. There are two tickets open now-the Democratic and Republican ticket. [Illustrating.] Is not that about the way they would be, one-half to three-quarters of an inch would be thrown up on both of them?-A. Yes, sir. They might both be laying just that way.

Q. You could not pretend to distinguish the tickets from flying open?-A. We could generally tell the tickets from the looks of them.

Q. You could not tell them from the open appearance of them?-A. Only from where the Republican ticket looked larger.

Q. I am speaking about the open space in the ticket where they would fly open. You could not distinguish that ticket from the other on that account?-A. I could tell them separately. I don't know how it would be if they were in the box together.

Re-examination by Mr. WILSON:

Q. Did you see the National ticket voted at that election?-A. Yes, sir. I think we only had four votes.

Q. I will call your attention to the ticket marked Exhibit D to the deposition of De Vay, headed "National Ticket.”—A. The candidate for Congress on the National ticket, I think, only received a few votes in our precinct.

Q. Was that the ticket that was voted there?-A. Yes, sir.

Q. Could you distinguish the Democratic ticket from the National ticket folded up and put in the box, even in counting them?-A. Well, I do not know that I could.

Recross-examination by Mr. PEELLE:

Q. I will ask you to take that Democratic and National ticket in your hands now and