gressional election in 1882-A. I do not think the difference would be as great, and believe the difference between those two [indicating] and these two [indicating], from the fact of these being so exceedingly small, the difference is small. Q. The fact that the Landers ticket being much smaller, and much narrower and shorter, it could be more readily distinguished from the Republican ticket than the Republican ticket in 1882 could be from the Democratic ticket of 1882; is not that true-A. I think it could. Re-examination by Mr. WILSON: Q. Suppose the Republican ticket of November, 1882, had been 2 inches longer; would it have come out exactly in sheets 19 by 24 without any loss at all? (Objected to as not rebuttal.) A. No, sir. Q. So it is simply because that ticket happens to be that length that the size 19 by 24 adapts itself to it?-A. That ticket, as it measures, comes exactly out of a sheet 19 by 24. Q. And if it had been longer it would not have done it, and if it had been shorter it could not have done it ?-A. If you cut sixteen to a sheet it might; but if you reduce it enough and cut 14 or 12, or increase it 18 or 20, if the sheet was much larger or smaller-this measures 19 by 24 precisely. Q. I understood you to say that book paper of the same weight and the same thickness as western plate paper is the same in finish?-A. Western plate, yes, sir; and the same thing. There is not enough difference to say, and I would not go on the stand and undertake to say the difference, because there is not much difference in the same weight as they make plate paper. Q. Is it not true that there is a very different finish in book papers of plate paper weight-A. You mean a different finish. On western there is not, but on eastern there is. Q. Is there any uniformity in the finish of book papers?-A. The standard by which it is known is sized and calendered, and sized and supercalendered, and book paper made to correspond with western plate would be what is called extra-sized and supercalendered, and it would have then to be made plate weights to be made that. Q. You have got to get it exactly the same quality, and the same size, and the same weight as plate paper in order that they may be the same?-A. Yes, sir. Q. That is my understanding of your answer?-A. Yes, sir. Q. You have to get book paper of the same size, and the same weight, and the same finish as western plate paper, and when you do that there is no difference between them -A. No, sir; it would have to be what I think would be an exceeding weight in book paper, and it would be a very heavy weight of book paper. Q. It is not an ordinary book paper?-A. This is the only time I have ever seen it catalogued. It may be catalogued by all dealers, and by our concern, but I do not know that to be a fact and I would not care to go on record, but it is catalogued by Chatfield and Woods. Q. And Chatfield and Woods is an exception in your estimation?-A. I would not say that, because I do not know; I have never given the case attention enough to know. It might be catalogued, and I do not say but what it is, but it is an exceedingly heavy weight in my opinion. Q. And would not it have the very same spring-back qualities that plate paper would have, of a like character? (Objected to as immaterial and not rebuttal.) A. It would be the same thing. Q. It would have the same elasticity and spring-back features, when you reach that point-A. Yes, sir. Q. Mr. Peelle called your attention to what he called "the little Landers ticket," and you said it was much shorter and much narrower than the other Democratic ticket used at the same election, as he says, "with a flag at the head of it," and much narrower than the Republican ticket used at the same election. Is it not a fact that it is so much narrower that it enables you to come to the conclusion that you could distinguish it, as you said you did?—A. That is the distinguishing mark of it. Questions by Mr. PEELLE: Q. I hand you what purports to be "The Annual Catalogue of the J. W. Butler Paper Company," of Chicago, and marked as Exhibit No. 1 to the deposition of Mr. Fish. Take that book and turn to page 16 and state whether or not there are book sizes there, catalogued 25 by 38, weighing 100 pounds?-A. Yes, sir; there is. Q. Look at the bottom of that book and read the foot-note, and what it says about special sizes.-A. (Reading.) "Special sizes and weights made to order on short notice." Q. I will now ask you to turn to page 20, under the head of "Plate Papers," and I will ask you to read the foot-note there.-A. (Reading.) " Odd sizes made to order if required." Q Then you have found in two catalogues--one of Chatfield & Woods and one of the J. W. Butler Paper Company, of Illinois-that there is book paper, size 25 by 38, 100 pounds to the ream?-A. Yes, sir; I have. Q. Would there be any difference between that paper and what you term as western plate paper?-A. If you notice, the grade of this is "Extra No. 1, sized and supercalendered." I made that explanation when I stated there would be no difference, in answer to Mr. Wilson. There would be practically no difference. Q. That is what I am asking you-between plate paper 25 by 38, weighing 100 pounds-whether there would be any difference between western plate paper, upon which this Republican ticket is printed, and that?-A. The same grade of paper, there would not be; no, sir. JOHN H. PEGGS, being first duly sworn, testified as follows: Direct examination by Mr. WILSON: WM. O. DEVAY. Q. State your name, age, and residence.-A. John H. Peggs; age, 42; my residence is Acton, Marion County, Indiana. Q. How long have you lived in Marion County -A. About 8 years last November. Q. What position, if any, do you hold officially now?-A. Justice of the peace in Franklin Township, in Marion County. Q. Were you at the Congressional election, November, 1882 1—A. Yes, sir. Q. What capacity did you act in?-A. I was clerk of the board at that election. Q. I will ask you to state how the number of tickets that you sealed up and put in the bag, as required by law, and forwarded to the county officers, corresponded at that election with the number of names on the tally-sheet and poll-book at your precinct ? (Objected to as not rebuttal, and simply in answer to testimony brought out by the contestant on cross-examination of the contestee's witnesses, which was not proper cross-examination.) A. They exactly corresponded at our precinct. Cross-examination by Mr. PEELLE: Q. Who was the Republican clerk at that precinct 1-A. His name was Meacham. Re-examination by Mr. WILSON: Q. Did they, or not, correspond on the vote for Congress! (Objected to as leading.) A. That I do not recollect exactly, the number. In what way? Q. Did not the number of tickets you sealed up and put into the bag and forwarded correspond with the number of tallies you had on the vote for Congress ?-A. Yes, sir; that is correct. Questions by Mr. PEELLE: Q. How many votes were there for Congress?-A. What do mean by that? In the precinct? Q. Yes, sir.-A. For both parties? Q. Yes, sir.-A. I am not positive about the number, but I think about 300. Q. How many votes did Mr. English have ?—A. I think about 180, as near as I can remember. Q. How many did the Democratic candidate have, for secretary of state?—A. I am not going to be positive about it, but I think the secretary of state received about one hundred and seventy, somewheres near there, and the other was somewheres near one hundred and eighty for Congress. Q. How many votes were there cast for the Greenback candidate for Congress!A. I believe 22 exactly, if I remember right, but I am not positive; I think it was 22. Q. How many ballots were there in the box?-A. That I cannot remember. Q. Was Mr. English's name scratched off of any Democratic tickets 1-A. None that I know of. Q. None whatever?-A. None whatever; not that I know of. By Mr. WILSON: Q. As to the Republican ticket; do you remember whether Mr. Peelle's name was blank or scratched off of any ticket there?-A. Yes, sir; it was, I think; I am not positive, but I think about 5 or 6. By Mr. PEELLE: Q. On how many tickets was Mr. English's name scratched off of the Democratic ticket and Mr. Peelle's name pasted over?-A. None that I know of. Q. None whatever?-A. I think not. Q. Mr. English's name was not scratched off of any ticket?-A. None that I noticed. Q. Was Mr. English's name pasted on any Republican ticket?-A. I do not know exactly the number; I think there was a few; the exact number I cannot tell. Q. Were you clerk of the board?-A. Yes sir. Q. You did not handle the tickets at all?-A. No, sir. Q. You did not see them ?-A. No, sir. Q. You do not know anything about it, do you, as a matter of fact, not having handled the tickets? (Objected to.) A. I kept the tally from the report as they were reported to me. I know some of the tickets I saw. Q. You did not handle any of the tickets at all?-A. No, sir. Q. Did Mr. Doherty have the handling of the tickets?-A. No, sir; the tickets were handled in this way, by the inspector, and the inspector passed the tickets to the judge, and the other judge strung them. That is the way they were handled. Q. Mr. Doherty handled some of the tickets?-A. Yes, sir. Q. He was the Democratic judge there?-A. Yes, sir; and he passed the tickets to Mr. Craft, and Mr. Craft strung the tickets. Q. You did not handle any of the tickets at all?-A. No, sir. By Mr. WILSON: Q. Mr. Peelle asked you what Mr. Medkirk's vote was; do you know what Mr. Leonard's vote was on the Greenback ticket for secretary of state?-A. No, sir; I do not recollect. By Mr. PEELLE: Q. Was there a single vote cast for him at that precinct that you recollect 1—A. I do not recollect. Q. Do not you recollect that there was none?-A. I do not recollect. By Mr. WILSON: Q. Was there not 22 votes there at that precinct?-A. If I recollect correctly, there was about 22 votes, or about that number, cast for the Greenback ticket, for the number that had the full vote; but I do not recollect exactly. Q. Did not Mr. Medkirk have about 18, to refresh your recollection?-A. I do not recollect how many he had, but very nearly the full vote. I remember that he had several votes, but exactly as to that I cannot say. JOHN W. CARLTON, being first duly sworn, testified as follows: Direct examination by Mr. WILSON: JOHN H. PEGGS. Q. State your name, age, and residence.-A. John W. Carlton; 61 years old; residence, Indianapolis, Ind., No. 401 Lexington avenue. Q. How long have you lived in this city?-A. Ten years. Q. Were you in this city at the time of the Congressional election in November, 18827-A. Yes, sir. Q. What precinct and ward?-A. The first precinct of the Twenty-first ward. Q. What capacity did you act in ?—A. During the evening I was the lookout for the Democratic side of the house. Q. Do you recollect who was the Republican watcher there?-A. Wilber F. Browder was one of them; and I forget who the other was. We had two and they had two. Q. Whilst counting the votes there that evening in your presence as watcher, did you and Mr. Browder make any effort to tell the tickets one from the other-the Republican and Democratic tickets?-A. While they were in the box? Q. No, sir.-A. As they were brought out? Q. Yes, sir.-A. I think there was only one instance that I noticed it. I was not watching the box; I was watching the tally. I sat about 6 or 7 feet from the box. We had a new clerk there, and I was watching to see that Joyce did not get ahead of him. Q. Mr. Browder said, in his evidence for the contestee, that he was one of the watchers, and that in taking out the ballots he several times guessed out loud what the character of the ticket was; that he remembered of guessing three times at it, saying, "Here comes a good Republican ticket"; or, "Here comes a good Demo H. Mis. 23-34 cratic ticket": and that Mr. Carlton was next to him, and he was guessing at the Democratic ticket, and he (Browder) was guessing at the Republican ticket, but he missed it two out of three times, and Mr. Carlton missed it once or twice. You say you made an effort once ?-A. I think it was once that the ticket came up over the top of the box. I was sitting to the east side of the table, fronting to the front side of the house, and Browder sat right there, and Bruce was right over next to Browder, and I sat farther off than Mr. Peelle is sitting from me now, and our clerk-Green-sat between Mr. Bruce and me, and I sat next to Green and was the last one in the room, watching that the tally was right; and I think at one time there was a ticket came over the top of the box; we had been joking about the ticket, and I said, "There comes a good Democratic ticket." Q. Only once ?-A. I do not think to exceed once. Q. Do you recollect how often Mr. Browder tried that?-A. No; I do not recollect anything particular about that. I think when Brundage would take out a ticket that Browder made the remark several times, "Here comes a good Republican ticket." Q. Do you recollect what was the result of your guessing?-A. I think I guessed a Democratic ticket. Cross-examination by Mr. PEELLE: Q. Do you recollect anything about it now distinctly?-A. Yes, sir. Q. You said you think you guessed it ?-A. I am satisfied I did, for I could tell that ticket ten feet. Q. You are satisfied now that you guessed it?-A. Yes, sir; it was a Democratic ticket, for I could tell the paper ten feet away. By Mr. WILSON: Q. Tell it from what?-A. From the thickness of the Republican ticket and the thinness of the Democratic ticket. By Mr. PEELLE: Q. You could tell it was the Democratic ticket ten feet away!-A. I could tell either of them. Q. How could you tell them?-A. I could stand at the edge of the chute, when the voter came up, and tell what ticket he had in his hand. Q. You could tell one from the other equally well?-A. Yes sir. Q. Could not you tell a Democratic ticket from a Republican ticket as well as you could a Republican from a Democratic ticket?—A. Yes, sir. JOHN W. CARLTON. MOSES G. MCLAIN, being first duly sworn, testified as follows: Direct examination by Mr. WILSON: Q. You are county clerk of Marion County, Indiana?-A. Yes, sir. Q. Here is a certificate with reference to the vote for Emanuel R. Hawn, Hiram Z. Leonard, and William R. Myers, candidates for secretary of state, and William E. English and Stanton J. Peelle and Robert W. Medkirk for Congress, as cast in precinct No. 2, in Franklin Township, in this county. I will ask you if that is your seal and signature -A. That is my own signature. Q. And that is the record in your office?-A. Yes, sir; I dictated the heading of that certificate. (Each and every question asked this witness is objected to by the contestee as not rebuttal evidence and for the further reason that the certificate referred to is not complete.) (The certificate was introduced in evidence as a part of this deposition and will be found attached hereto, marked as Exhibit No. 1, its admission being objected to as not proper rebuttal.) Q. Do you know upon what ticket William R. Myers was running as a candidate for secretary of state ?-A. The Democratic ticket. Q. And Emanuel R. Hawn?-A. The Republican ticket. Q. And Hiram Z. Leonard ?-A. The National or Greenback ticket. Q. And Robert W. Medkirk was the National candidate for Congress ?-A. Yes, sir ; and Mr. Peelle was the Republican candidate, and Mr. English the Democratic candidate. Cross-examination by Mr. PEELLE: Q. You do not know anthing about how the vote actually stood out there except from the returns?-A. No, sir; I only examined the canvass sheet as returned by the board of canvassers. Q. Do you know anything about how the vote stood on the recount for sheriff!-A. No, sir. Q. Were you present at the time of the recount?-A. No, sir. Q. You had charge of the ballots as clerk of this county -A. Yes, sir. Q. And still have possession of them?-A. Yes, sir. Q. Are they still the same as when the board returned them? (Objected to as not cross-examination and immaterial and irrelevant.) A. Yes, sir. Q. The ballots are in your possession now as clerk of this county ?—A. Yes, sir. Q. Just as they were at the time of the last recount?—A. Yes, sir. Q. Just as they left them there ?-A. Yes, sir. Mr. WILSON. This examination is based upon what I regard as an illegal cross-examination by Mr. Peelle, but reserving the right to strike out that evidence, I desire to ask the witness a few questions. By Mr. WILSON: Q. How are those tickets preserved -A. The tickets are placed in the ballot-boxes in the bags returned by the several precinct inspectors, and were, by the commission appointed to recount them, resealed and placed back in the ballot-boxes and the ballot-boxes locked. Q. What sort of bags are those?-A. Paper bags. Q. What sort of a seal do you call it -A. It is sealing-wax. Q. Have they been in any vault?—No, sir; they have been in a room up-stairs in the court-house. Q. Who occupies that room in the day time?-A. Nobody. Q. Does anybody in the evening ?-A. No, sir. Q. In a room up-stairs in the court-house, separate and apart, and unoccupied during the day and night?-A. Yes, sir. By Mr. PEELLE: Q. You have control of the key of that room?-A. Yes, sir. Q. Does anybody else have any key to it?-A. No, sir. Q. The ballots in the boxes are now just as they were returned by the precinct inspectors? A. Yes, sir; so far as I know. By Mr. WILSON: Q. Have you looked into those boxes since?-A. No, sir. Q. So you do not know, any further than simply the conclusion, whether they are there now as they were put there when you put them in there!-A. I know only that they are just as received from the board of canvassers appointed to recount. Q. You put the tickets back in that room?-A. The ballot-boxes. Q. And you have not been in there to look at those tickets since ?-A. No, sir. Q. And you do not know whether anybody has been in there or not, of your own knowledge-A. I do not know. Q. And you do not know that nobody either has or has not been in there ?-A. No, sir; I do not. Q. When was it they were put in there ?-A. Sometime in December. Q. December, 1882-A. Yes, sir; and the keys were returned by the commissioners making the recount, and I placed them, on the day they were received by me, in an envelope and sealed the envelope, and that envelope has not been broken open. Q. Where is that envelope?-A. In my office under lock and key, Q. You have had charge of the ballot-boxes and the keys to the ballot-boxes both, from that time on --A. Yes, sir. Q. What are those ballot-boxes made out of-walnut?-A. Some of them are ash and some walnut. I got them from the township trustees. Q. They are small ballot-boxes?-A. Just the ordinary ballot-boxes used at the general elections. I have not been in the room, that I remember of, for a year. I may have been in there, but I am not certain about it. I do not think I have. MOSES G. MCLAIN. Exhibit No. 1 to deposition of Moses G. McLain.—P. C. Hendricks N. P. Be it remembered, that among the records and papers filed in the office of the clerk of the Marion circuit court, in and for the County of Marion and State of Indiana, there appears on file in said office the official canvass-sheet of the number of votes cast in the several voting precincts of said county, at the general election held on the 7th day of November, A. D. 1882, as returned and certified to said office by the board of canvassers of said county; that from said sheet it appears that the several candidates for secretary of state and for Representative in Congress received the following number of votes in precinct number two (2) in Franklin Township, in said county, to wit: |