election in 1882 and those voted at the State election for governor in 1880 is about the same. Is that correct?-A. No; I said in these two there was a difference there.

Q. The Republican and Democratic tickets voted at the Congressional election in 1882-the Republican ticket would be twice as heavy as the Democratic ticket ?—A. Yes, sir.

Q. And the Republican and Democratic tickets voted at the State election for governor in 1880, the Republican ticket is twice as heavy and large?—A. Yes, sir; it is twice as large.

Q. Is it not as long again, and considerable wider ?-A. Yes, sir.

Q. Are not the tickets voted at the Congressional election in 1832 the same length and width substantially by sight?-A. By sight they look the same width.

Q. How do you distinguish those Republican and Democratic tickets voted at the Congressional election in 1882-A. By the material on which they are printed. Q. And the bulk?-A. Yes, sir; if they are folded up.

Q. Would it not be more readily told on the tickets voted for governor in 1880 the same way by sight and by bulk-A. No more so, only in a general way as to size and as to length when folded as I would vote that ticket.

Q. Could you not more readily distinguish that Democratic ticket voted for governor in 1830 from the Republican ticket than you could the Republican from the Democratic ticket voted at the Congressional election in 1882 ?-A. No, sir.

Q. Why?-A. Because these are bulkier.

Q. Is there not more difference in the bulk of these tickets voted for governor in 1860 than between the tickets voted in 1882, when folded as men ordinarily fold them when voting ?-A. No, sir.

Q. You say the difference in the weight of them is about the same ?-A. Yes, sir; about the same.

Q. Is that Republican voted in 1882 on paper?-A. Technically it is.

Q. Is it plain white paper?-A. It might be called plain white paper.

Q. If it were unruled is it not plain white paper, and comes in sheets as paper ordinarily comes?-A. No, sir; if a person would come into the office and attempt to sell me that paper as plain white paper and show me that sample in a sheet-it would be handed to me as one full sheet of paper-I would readily see that it was not and could not be ordinary plain book paper.

Q. Do you understand simply that plain white paper must be book paper ?--A. No, sir.

Q. That is paper, is it not?-A. Yes, sir.

Q. Is it not plain white paper?-A. Yes, sir.

Q. Does not that make plain white paper?-A. That makes plain white paper.

Q. Is there any such thing known in trade as plain white paper?-A. There is always a distinguishing word. Before you would say plain white paper you would say plain white plate paper, plain white book paper, plain white plate paper, or plain white news paper.

Q. The same term that is applicable to news and flat paper is applicable to plate paper? A. Yes, sir; except that plate-paper does not come in colors ordinarily. Q. It is usually white?-A. Yes, sir; and used for plates.

Q. Then is it not more likely to be plain white than the other?-A. Yes, I should think it was for that reason.

Q. Do you know what western plate-paper is?-A. I could not say that I do.

Q. Is there any such thing in this catalogue as western plate-paper? I mean the catalogue you presented a moment ago from the Chicago house.-A. It is not indexed in this catalogue.

Q. Can you find anywhere such a thing as western plate-paper in that catalogue?— A. No, sir; they give the manufacturer's name.

Q. Simply as plate-paper?-A. "Plate-paper made by."

Q. Can you tell what kind of plate-paper they make?-A. No, sir; I never heard of the:n.

Q. Did you ever see any western plate-paper?—A. No, sir; not that I am aware of Q. You do not know what western plate-paper is ?-A. No, sir.

Q. Do you know the difference between western plate-paper and book-paper?— A. I would know the difference between plate-paper and book-paper.

Q. The western plate-paper?-A. No, sir; I do not think I would.

Q. If there is any difference between western plate-paper and book-paper you do not know it ?-A. No, sir.

Q. Take that Republican ticket voted at the Congressional election in 1882 again. Have you not seen books printed on paper as heavy as that?—A. Yes, sir; I think I

have.

Q. Have you not printed them at the Sentinel Company frequently?-A. No, sir. Q. Have you not bound books there in which the printed matter is heavier than that? A. No, sir; I think not.

Q. On heavier paper than that?—A. No, sir.

Q. What is the heaviest paper, size 25 by 381-A. That we have used?

Q. I am not asking you what you use in that question. What is the heaviest bookpaper -A. I presume you could have it made as heavy as you would like, but for ordinary use 100 pounds is an excess.

Q. Is there any number one sized and supercalendered 120 pounds to the ream, size 32 by 441-A. Yes, sir; but that is a large size.

Q. Would that be heavier paper than that paper?-A. No, sir; it would not be as heavy.

Q. As heavy as that Republican ticket?-A. Yes, sir.

Q. There is No. 1, sized and supercalendered, on page 16 of this catalogue, 25 by 33, 100 pounds; would that be heavier than that?-A. No, sir; it would not be so heavy. Q. Do you say that paper, size 25 by 38, weighs over 100 pounds to the ream!—Â. Yes, sir; this paper, size 25 by 38, I should think would weigh 150 pounds.

Q. Suppose it only weighs 80 pounds to the ream, that size-A. It would be a smaller size.

Q. Suppose it weighed 50 pounds, size 19 by 24; what would it weigh 25 by 381– A. Not more than 50 and 45.

Q. Ninety-five pounds?—A. Yes, sir; it would weigh 45 to 50 pounds to the ream, 25 by 38.

Q. What do you mean by that?-A. If this 19 by 24 weighs 100 pounds or 120 pounds to the ream

Q. No, sir; I say if that paper, size 19 by 24, weighs 50 pounds per ream, what would that same paper weigh, size 25 by 38?-A. It would weigh very heavy; 150 pounds at least. If you take that same paper and increase the width, and let the thickness remain, it would weigh 150 pounds.

Mr. WILSON. You mean the Republican ticket of 1882?

The WITNESS. Yes, sir.

Q. You think it would go three times heavier 25 by 38 than 19 by 247-A. I do not know the weight of it.

Q. I give you the weight of it. Suppose it weighs 50 pounds, 19 by 24; what would it weigh 25 by 38, and I ask you to figure that up and see if you are not mistaken about that and see if it would not weigh less than 100 pounds to the ream.-A. The difference in the sheets would be 6 inches one way and 14 in the other, and it would hardly go 150, but it would go 100; Ishould think 100.

Q. Then there is book paper, size 25 by 38, that weighs 100 pounds or more per ream?-A. Yes, sir; it could be made any weight desirable.

Q. In the catalogue you have presented there is book paper that weighs that !—A. I do not know, sir.

Q. Take it and see if there is not a book paper of that size, 25 by 38, that weighs 100 pounds per ream.-A. Yes, sir; they so catalogue it.

Q. They do not pretend to catalogue anything there except the sizes that are commonly used?-A. I think not.

Q. Those are the common sizes of book paper in that catalogue ?—A. One hundred pounds to the ream is unusual.

Q. Those are the common sizes that are in there ?-A. Yes, sir.

Q. And the common weight of book paper-that is, it is not such paper as is cut to order or made to order, but simply such sizes as are kept in stock?-A. They keep this in stock.

Q. Did you examine these tickets before you went upon the stand as a witness?— A. Yes, sir; I have seen them, and examined them.

Q. When did you examine them?-A. To-day; I have made it a custom, being in the printing business, to preserve tickets as they came out from election to election, and have, perhaps, 5 or 6 years back. I keep them for samples—all the tickets I get hold of in the city. We printed this ticket ourselves.

Q. Which one; that Democratic ticket No. 4, to the deposition of John Carlon!A. Yes, sir; it seems to me I printed it at the Sentinel Company.

sir.

Q. Do you know who printed the Democratic ticket with the flag on it!-A. Yes,

Q. Who -A. It was printed by William Mitchell, at Greenfield.

Q. At whose instance was that printed, if you know 1-A. I do not know, sir. Q. It was used by the Democrats here in that election in 1880, was it?-A. Yes, sir. Q. William Mitchell is the editor of the Hancock Democrat, is he not, in Hancock County 1-A. Yes, sir; I might add it is also my business to look after these jobs, and I found out he printed them, because I did not get the job; I wanted them for my own company. I printed those tickets used in that election by order of Mr. Brown-I refer to the small ticket. My understanding is, we printed them for the city and county, and they were printed for the State outside; but I do not know anything about that, as I was not on the inside.

Questions by Mr. WILSON:

Q. What is the ordinary weight of book paper; I mean by that what is the weight of book paper that is ordinarily used by the manufacturers of books?-A. There is more 25 by 38 than any other size.

Q. What weight is that ordinarily?—A. 45 pounds.

Q. And is 100 pounds to the ream an exceptional weight?-A. I never printed but one book in my experience on 100-pound paper.

Q. Where was that printed?-A. Here.

Q. How many books have you printed or had to do with ?-A. I could not tell you. Q. Many of them?-A. Lots of them.

Q. So it is an exception when a book is printed on paper 25 by 38, weighing 100pounds?-A. Yes, sir; I only remember of one being printed at the Sentinel office in iny experience on 100-pound paper.

Q. What sort of a book was that?-A. It is called the History of Indiana. We have hundreds of them.

Q. Is it illustrated ?-A. Yes, sir; it is published by Morrow & Co., in the Vance Block.

Q. That is the only one in all your experience, and you have been in business a long time, that you ever printed, or had anything to do with the printing of, that was on 100-pound paper?-A. Yes; it was ordered for 100-pound paper, I remember very well.

Q. How many pages were there to the book?-A. There was probably 800 pages; somewhere along there.

Q. You stated that that ticket used at the election in 1880 by Porter and Landersthe smaller one marked as an exhibit to Mr. Carlon's evidence-was printed by you at the order and instance of Austin H. Brown ?-A. I think that is correct.

Q. Has the Sentinel Company a job office connected with it?-A. Yes, sir.

Q. Does it do job work?-A. Yes, sir.

Q. Mr. Peelle asked you if you knew what western plate-paper was, and if you knew the difference between western plate and book, and you said you did not know the difference. Do you know that there is a difference?-A. No, sir; I do not.

Q. You do not know anything about western plate?-A. No, sir; on the word "Western" I do not.

Q. But you know there is a difference between plate paper and book paper?-A. Yes, sir.

Q. You say that the Republican ticket is technically white paper. Is it not true that white blotting paper is white paper technically?-A. Yes, sir; but you have to put in the word "blotting" to make it other than white paper.

Q. When you speak of plate-paper as white you have got to put in the word "plate" to distinguish it?-A. Yes, sir.

Q. And plate paper is catalogued as plate paper?-A. Yes, sir.

Q. In that sense I ask you if the exhibit shown to C. L. Devine, marked "Philadelphia," if you would not call that, in that technical sense, plain white paper; in the technical sense in which you say the plate paper is plain white paper?-A. My answer would be on that as I answered the other.

Q. By the other you mean as to the Republican ticket voted in November, 1882 ↑— A. Yes, sir; I would not call it plain white paper.

Q. Would you call the Republican ticket plain white paper?-A. No, sir.

Q. State what is the difference between that Democratic ticket for Franklin Landers, marked Exhibit 4, to the deposition of John Carlon, and the Democratic ticket with the flag at the head of it and the Democratic ticket used at that election which I have already shown you; what would be the difference in the weights of those two tickets when they were of the same size, 25 by 38 to the ream?-A. About 5 pounds to the ream, I should judge.

Q. So the difference in the weight and bulk referred to was owing to the difference in the size of the tickets-the difference which you have testified to was a difference in the size of the two tickets?-A. Yes, sir.

WM. F. FISH.

Exhibit No. 1 to deposition of W. F. Fish.-P. C. Hendricks, N. P.
(Omitted. See original, page 2511.)

AUSTIN DAUGHERTY, being first duly sworn, testified as follows:

Direct examination by Mr. WILSON:

Q. State your name, age, and residence.-A. Austin Daugherty; age, 39; residence, Acton, Marion County, Indiana.

Q. Were you in your township in this county in November, 1882, at the time the Congressional election took place ?-A. Yes, sir.

Q. Were you at your precinct-A. Yes, sir.

Q. What precinct was that?-A. We call it the Acton precinct and it is known as No. 2, Franklin Township.

Q. How many voting places were there at that election in that township?—A. Two only.

Q. What capacity did you act in on that day -A. Judge of the election.
Q. As Democratic judge?-A. Yes, sir.

Q. Who was inspector?-A. Jonas Hamlin.

Q. I ask you if you recollect-I do not ask you for the numbers-but if you recollect the relationship between the number of tickets that you pur in the box and sealed up according to law, when you got through with your count, and the number of names on the tally sheet and pool-book; did they correspond or was there a difference?—A. They corresponded exactly; I know from the fact that we counted them. They were connted in my presence, and probably I counted them myself.

Cross-examination by Mr. PEELLE:

Q. Was the comparison of the vote on the State candidates or county candidates!— A. Oh, no. We counted the tickets and in footing up the tally-we always did that -we counted the tickets on the string to see that they corresponded with the votes cast with the candidates on the tally sheets.

Q. I asked you whether your comparison was on the State candidates, or whether it was on the county candidates; you do not pretend to say you compared the unmber of tickets voted with the names on the tally sheet with the names of the candidates?-A. No, sir; I do not remember that, but I remember we took the names-for instance on sheriff, or any particular one, and of course in the tally sheet we give the exact number of votes cast for any one candidate, and there were three candidates, I think, and we went through and we counted the tickets to see that there was as many tickets as there were votes cast.

Q. On what candidates?-A. I do not remember that we designated any particular

one.

Q. Did you make any comparison on Congressman ?-A. Yes, sir; I think we did. Q. How many votes were there for Congressman ?-A. As near as I can remember there was about 300 in our precinct, all told.

Q. What was the total vote in that precinct, all told ?—A. About 300; I do not recollect exactly.

Q. You do not recollect what the vote was on Congressman ?-A. No, sir; I do not. Q. You say now you compared the number of votes counted for Congressman with the number of tickets registered on the poll-list?-A. We counted the tickets and compared them with the names registered on the poll-list.

Q. Did you do that as to Congressman ?—A. I did not say we did.

Q. You could not tell whether the number of votes counted for Congressman corresponded with the number of names registered?-A. Yes, sir; I can tell. I know in looking over the tally-sheet that was one of the items. I do not know as we had any specific point in it, but they were entirely alike.

Q. Did you make any comparison at all on the vote for Congressman ?-A. No, only in a general way; just this way: We compared the number of ballots with the names on the pool-list.

Q. Didn't you go to the State candidates because there was less scratching there than anywhere else?-A. No, sir; I do not think we did. In fact, whenever a man cast his vote they registered his name, and when we got through with the tally we counted up the number of names on the tally-sheet and then we counted the ballots, and they corresponded exactly.

Q. You mean the number of tickets?-A. Yes, sir.

Q. Corresponded with the names registered on the pool-list-A. Yes, sir.

Q. But as to whether or not the number of votes for Congressman corresponded with the number of names registered, you do not remember?-A. I would not like to state whether they did or not.

Q. All you did was to compare the number of ballots with the number of names registered?-A. Yes, sir.

Q. And they corresponded?-A. Yes, sir.

Q. And you do not know anything about the difference between the number of votes counted for Congressman and the number of names registered?-A. I know this, that there was no discrepancy. I know that, because it was of considerable interest to us; but it seems to me that there was one ballot where Mr. English's was off and nothing to show for it. I know we talked on the subject, and, it seems to me, in that way; but I would not like to be right positive.

Q. Was that all the ballot ?—A. That was in that shape?

Q. Yes, sir.-A. I think that one of the sheriff's was about in the same fix.

Q. Do you say that there was but one ticket there with the name of English scratched off-A. No, sir; I did not say that.

Q. I mean with Mr. English's name scratched off and no one voted for ?-A. Yes, sir; I think there was; I am not positive.

Q. Was there any ticket there with Mr. Peelle's name scratched off and nobody voted for?-A. I do not remember that there was; I think not.

Q. You cannot remember but the one ticket ?-A. I just remember the circumstance of talking about it among ourselves; that there was but one ticket, and it run in my mind that it was Mr. English's name that was scratched off; I may be mistaken, but I think not. I never charged my mind with it, and I did not think I would be called upon.

Q. Were there many tickets there with the name of Peelle scratched off and the name of Mr. English pasted over?-A. No, sir; I think the Republican ticket was generally pretty straight.

Q. Was there many tickets there with the name of Mr. English scratched off and the name of Mr. Peelle pasted over? --A. I believe there was a few, but very few.

Q. Were there more Democratic tickets with Mr. English's name scratched off, and Mr. Peelle's pasted over, than there were Republican tickets with the name of Mr. Peelle scratched off and Mr. English's pasted over?-A. That I could not say, but I do not believe that any of the Republican tickets were scratched; I think they all voted for Mr. Peelle; that is my judgment.

Q. How many scratched tickets were there in there with Mr. English's name on i— A. That I could not say.

Q. I mean Democratic tickets with Mr. English's name scratched off?-A. I say that to the best of my recollection there was a ticket with his name scratched of with pencil.

Q. And nobody voted for?-A. Yes, sir.

Q. How many were there with his name scratched off and Mr. Peelle voted for, on the Democratic ticket?-A. I could not say how many; there was some.

Q. How many?-A. I would not undertake to say because I have never thought anything about it. In fact, I never thought anything about that election until this morning.

Q. How many Greenback tickets was there for Congressman ?-A. I think about three; I think there were three Greenback votes cast, but as to my designating special officers, I could not do it. I paid no attention to it, and I do not remember.

Q. Do you mean to say there was only three Greenback votes at that precinct?— A. Yes, sir; I would not be right positive of that; I know there was one election where we only had one.

Q. What was the vote cast there for secretary of State; for Mr. Myers, for instance?A. It is near 300 as I can get it, as anything else.

Q. For the Democratic candidate?-A. I do not recollect; I did not charge my mind with it.

Q. Was there any difference between the votes cast for the Democratic candidates there?-A. Oh, yes; there was considerable difference. It was enough to notice it at any rate. For instance, some of our voters would vote a little differently. Some few Democrats voted for the Republican sheriff.

Q. The Greenback votes were voted for the Greenback candidate for Congress?A. No, sir: I do not say so.

Q. Do you know who they were voted for?-A. No, sir.

Q. And there were only three?—A. I did not say that. I think there were only three. I know it was a little ridiculed there for it was such a trivial vote.

Q. Do you know whether Mr. English's vote there was more or less than the Democratic candidate for secretary of State?-A. No, sir; I do not recollect. My opinion is Mr. English was slightly behind the Democratic ticket there.

Q. That is, the other Democratic candidates had more votes than he had?-A. Not exactly that way, but he fell a little behind what we call the Democratic vote.

Q. How did Mr. English's vote correspond with the other candidates?-A. I think he run a little behind. I do not mean of all the others, for I didn't notice that particularly, but slightly behind some; what we call our Democratic vote.

Q. I am not speaking about former elections.-A. I am not talking about former elections.

Q. I ask you about the difference between Mr. English's vote and the vote for the other candidates.-A. I cannot give it to you. I think he run slightly behind the ticket, but it was few, to the best of my recollection.

Q. If Mr. Meyers, the Democratic candidate for secretary of State, received 172 votes, and Mr. English's name was scratched off of one Democratic ticket, and there was no one voted tor, and a few Democratic tickets in there with his name scratched off and Mr. Peelle's name pasted over, how many votes would you say Mr. English had in that precinct for Congress, compared with the secretary of State, who had 172 votes?

(Objected to.)

H. Mis. 23- -33