Q. That was in tallies of 5 for Mr. Lemon and Mr. Hess -A. Yes, sir. Q. That ruling was not adopted with reference to Congressman, was it?-A. No, sir; we counted all the straight tickets first of course, as they appeared on the strings where they were strung, and Mr. Lemon would take the tickets from me, and when he had passed them over I would announce the result-5 for Lemon, or 5 for Hess, whichever it might be. Q. That is, they did not count 5 straight tickets for Peelle, but simply counted the votes for Peelle as the number happened to be on the 5 straight for Leinon or Hess!A. Yes, sir; those gentlemen did this. After a while, in counting the straight tickets I noticed that because it delayed us a little in counting the votes, as they first would take up the straight tickets, all the election board did that-that was the general rule, to count the straight tickets as they would be counted in tallies-that is, in tallies of 5-and they would be strung, and sometimes there would be 50 or sometimes 100 of one party counted, and there would be the same of another of straight tickets. After the straight tickets were counted, then they would count these scratched tickets, and we took them off the string that way, except we would reverse the string and commence at the bottom of the string to take off the tickets, so that the straight tickets would be first; and I noticed them in this way, that the gentlemen in counting had a mark for a tally on the straight tickets, a single mark for a tally, and they would have a mark for scratched tickets; that is, a mark for the Republican scratched tickets and one for the Democratic scratched tickets. I remember I sat by Mr. Brown, and he had his book and showed me what he told me was Republican with Peelle off and Democratic with English off, and Democratic with Peelle on and Republican with English on, so as to get the number of tickets that were scratched and had no other name substituted. Q. How long were you counting that vote for sheriff?—A. Three or four days is my recollection Q. Thursday to Monday, was it ?-A. We commenced Thursday and finished Monday morning; I think it was about 3 o'clock, if I am not mistaken, in the night of Sunday. Q. The succeeding Sunday?-A. Yes, sir; and we finished up about 3 o'clock; we thought we would finish it up while we were at it. Q. At the time during the count of the vote or at the conclusion of the count of the votes cast for this county for sheriff, what was said, if anything, by Mr. Brown or in Mr. Brown's presence as to how the vote would stand on a recount for Peelle and English-A. Well, it was after we were through counting and after the count was over, and it was the morning of the day we reported. Q. After the count had concluded?-A. Yes, sir; it was after we had agreed, and Mr. Brown, Mr. Byram, and myself had agreed on our return that we should make, and Mr. Brown said-I believe he said-he would like for Mr. Cropsey to look at it and to have them see it; and Mr. Lemon, and probably Mr. Cropsey, was in the room and looked at it, and we were waiting for some time for some purpose or other, and Mr. Byram and Mr. Brown and myself, and, I think, Mr. Hawkins, were standing at the end of the table, and we were talking about the English count. It was our impression and my impression that the advantage in the recount, or that the advantage in the recount of the vote for Congress, that it would have made a gain in favor of Mr. Peelle, and that remark was made to Mr. Brown, and I spoke to him about it and he acquiesced in it. Q. State what he said.-A. My best impression is he said right then that that was the case, and he should say the same to Mr. English, and that Mr. English would have nothing to gain in a recount, and he would tell him so. Q. Was Mr. Byram present when that occurred?-A. Yes, sir, and Mr. Hawkins. Q. Did you have any conversation with Mr. Brown after that about the recount on Congressmen ?—A. I do not know that I ever did; I do not remember. Q. Did you find any Democratic tickets in that box with the name of Mr. Peelle printed on them?-A. Yes, sir. Q. How many-A. Not more than 5 or 6 to the best of my recollection. Q. Did you notice the vote on Congressmen as you went along at all?—A. No, sir; I paid very little attention to it. Q. You do not know where the errors occurred or how they occurred?-A. Except where there was a general error that affected the whole ticket. I remember of hearing Mr. Byram and Mr. Brown talking about the error in Franklin Township, and I remember of hearing them talk about that, and also a general error in the 24th ward. Q. How was that error in the 24th ward?-A. There were 5 more votes counted than there were tickets in the box. Q. Was that 5 counted for the whole Democratic ticket?-A. Yes, sir; there were 5 less tickets in the box than there were names on the poll-book. Q. That made 5 more votes counted for Mr. English than he was entitled to in that precinct-A. Yes, sir. Q. Did you notice any errors in Wayne Township?—A. Yes, sir; I have spoken about that. My impression of that is and my recollection is--I may be wrong about t-they were errors only affecting the vote for sheriff Q. Were there or not some tickets in that precinct there that were not counted by the election board at all?-A. In all these? Q. No, sir; in that election precinct in Wayne Township.-A. Tickets that were not counted? Q. By the election board.-A. I do not recollect that there were. No, sir; it is not my recollection that there was any. Q. I will ask you to state how the vote on sheriff corresponded with the names registered on the poll-list, if you know, in the several precincts.-A. Well, there were less votes tallied for sheriff than there were names on the poll-book naturally for the candidates. There would be less than there would be names on the poll-book because in some places the name of the candidate would be scratched entirely off and none substituted in place of it; and of course that would make the vote short as to the number of votes on the poll-book. Q. Do you or not say that as a matter of fact the number of votes counted by you were more or less than the number of names recorded on the poll-book ?—A. They were less, but the number of tickets would be about the same. There generally would be as many tickets as there were names on the poll-book. They would agree except in 2 or 3 instances. I believe there would be a difference, but the number of tickets would be the same as the number of names on the poll-book, but the number of votes would be different. Q. On account of scratching?-A. Yes, sir; there was some scratching at the last election. Q. Did you notice Democratic tickets in the box with the name of Mr. Peelle pasted or written on in place of Mr. English's name ?-A. Yes, sir. Q. Can you state about how many there were there of that kind?-A. I can give you my best impression about it. I should say 4 or 5 hundred. (Objected to as an expression of opinion.) Q. Did you see some Republican tickets in there with the name of Mr. Peelle scratched off, and Mr. English's pasted on or written on?-A. Yes, sir. Q. How many of that kind?-A. I should say not more than 50, if that many. My best judgment would be 25 to 35-along there. Q. I will ask you to state whether or not at the end of each precinct after the count had been made of each precinct, what was said or done between Mr. Byram and Mr. Brown with reference to the vote for Congressman.-A. They just struck a balance— that is, compared notes to see how they stood. Q. Did Mr. Brown make any corrections, or not, as he went along?-A. Yes, sir; sometimes he and Mr. Byram did not agree, and they always ended it by agreeing except in one instance. Q. How was that?-A. I do not recollect exactly how it was. I remember one instance, and they agreed except that one instance. I remember of laughing about it at the time-about their disagreeing on that point. Q. What did he say he was keeping that count for? (Objected to as incompetent.) A. He said he was keeping it for Mr. English; that he had been employed by Mr. English to keep it. Q. Did he say that he was employed by Mr. English to keep count of the vote, or simply to keep count of the number of Republican tickets upon which Mr. English's name appeared?—A. He said he had been employed to keep a count of all the votes, which he proceeded to do. Q. I will ask you to state now whether or not in the keeping count there, as Mr. Brown was, on candidates for sheriff and candidates for Congress, was he or was he not liable to make mistakes and commit errors in his count? (Objected to as incompetent, irrelevant, and immaterial.) A. Certainly he was; any person would have been. Q. Could an ordinary or a prudent man, or an expert, if you please, in the keeping of the vote have kept that vote correctly in the manner in which Mr. Brown kept it? (Objected to as a mere opinion of the witness.) A. That is all I have to give you-my opinion. Q. I asked you that question and asked your judgment and opinion upon that, based upon the manner in which the count was kept?-A. I cannot see how a man would keep a count and keep it the way he did that he would be satisfied with as to the cor rectness of it. Q. Do you remember Mr. Brown calling attention to any errors in the vote for Congress in any wards from the first to the ninth, both inclusive?-A. No, sir. Q. You do not remember of it ?-A. I do not remember of his calling any attention to any errors in the vote for Congress. Q. At any time?-A. At any time; no, sir. Q. State if there were any errors discovered on the vote for Congressman in this way, where there would be tallies of 3 or 5 for Mr. English when the same number of tallies should have been given to Mr. Peelle.-A. I remember one instance of that kind, and we thought it was rather queer. It was one precinct in Franklin Township. Q. How many votes was that?-A. The difference of 10 was made, I think it was, to my recollection. Q. Was that 10 votes tallied for Mr. English that should have been for Mr. Peelle, or was it a tally of 10 votes for Mr. English that should have been counted for him or anybody?-A. My recollection is there was 5 votes too many tallied for Mr. English; my recollection is there was 10 votes too many tallied for Mr. English. Q. State if that tally of 10 votes for Mr. English was or was not 10 votes more tallied for Mr. English and the whole Democratic county ticket more than were in the box.-A. Yes, sir; that is my recollection. I understand you to say that there was 10 more votes tallied for Mr. English than there were tickets for the Democratic State ticket. Mr. WILSON. That is your answer? The WITNESS. Yes, sir; that is my recollection. Mr. WILSON. That is your answer? The WITNESS. Yes, sir; that is my recollection, that there was 10 votes more tallied for Mr. English than there were for the Democratic State ticket-that is, 10 above what he should have. Q. And that was 10 more votes than there were ballots in the box-A. Yes, sir; than there were votes. When I say tally, I mean a tally of 5 votes. Q. Had you any conversation with Mr. Brown at any time since that recount on sheriff was had about the count of the vote for Congress?-A. No, sir; not since we left that day. I don't think I have spoken to him about it. Q. What kind of a memorandum did he keep there; was it in a book or on a piece of paper, or how was it?-A. He had a little book, like a little pass-book or bankbook. Q. Did he keep the vote for sheriff in that as well as the vote for Congress?—A. No, sir; we had clerks that kept the tally. Q. Did he make note of the vote for sheriff as he went along?-A. No, sir; I don't think he did. Q. Then the vote he kept for Congress was in a book that he used for that purpose?— A. Yes, sir. Q. I now hand you a ticket headed “Republican ticket," and I will ask you to examine that and state if that is the kind of tickets that were found in the boxes when you recounted the votes for sheriff?-A. We found this kind of tickets in the boxes; yes, sir. This was not all the kind we found in there. Q. I mean of Republican tickets.-A. There was another kind of Republican ticket, too. Q. What kind of a Republican ticket was that?-A. There was another ticket just like that, except a different heading. It was a plainer heading—an engraved heading, and had an open letter and a plain letter. Mr. PEELLE. I offer in evidence the ticket which I have just handed the witness. I ask that it be marked as an exhibit to his testimony. (The ticket will be found in evidence attached to this deposition as a part thereot and marked Exhibit No. 1.) Q. I now hand you another ticket headed Republican ticket.-A. That is the ticket. Q. Is that the kind of a ticket that you found in the box, too?-A. Yes, sir. Q. How many tickets were there of that kind?-A. It is hard to say, but not nearly 80 many as the others. Q. How many tickets would you say there were of that kind?—A. Whatever the Republican ticket was in the country-and I do not know what that vote was, but just about that number. Q. Was that kind of a ticket voted at the several precincts in this county outside the city of Indianapolis ?-A. Yes, sir. Q. What kind of a heading has that ticket -A. That has au engraved heading. Q. Is it a plain heading, plain type?-A. It is a plain letter. Q. You say it is a plain letter?-A. Yes, sir; a wood-cut. Q. It may be a wood-cut, or it may be printed from type, may it not?—A. No; that is a wood-cut. I know about it. I have seen the cut. Q. I will ask you to state if that is the same kind of paper or different paper from that upon which the other tickets were printed. Just examine them.-A. Î should say it was the same kind of paper. Q. I now hand you a ticket headed Democratic ticket, and I will ask you to state if you found that ticket in the boxes.-A. Yes, sir. Mr. PEELLE. I now offer this ticket in evidence as a part of the deposition of this witness, and ask that it be marked as an exhibit. (The ticket will be found attached to this deposition as a part thereof, and marked Exhibit No. 2.) Q. State whether or not the Republican tickets in the boxes that you counted did or did not show the type on the opposite side in the main, or whether there were only a few of them.-A. I could not say as to that. I do not remember of paying especial attention to that. I did not pay much attention to the back of the tickets.. In some instances, where there were names written on them, or something of the kind, I noticed them. Q. I now hand you five tickets headed "Republican ticket," and I will ask you to take those tickets and examine them and see if that is the kind of a ticket you found in the boxes?-A. Yes, sir; I do not see anything different from the tickets we found in the box. Mr. PEELLE. I now offer in evidence these five tickets just handed to the witness, and ask that they be marked as exhibits to his deposition. (The tickets will be found attached to this deposition as a part thereof, and marked Exhibits Nos. 3, 4, 5, 6, and 7, respectively.) Cross-examination by Mr. WILSON: Q. You say there was two kinds of Republican tickets you saw in that box on that recount of the vote for sheriff?-A. Yes, sir. Q. The ticket that Mr. Peelle called your attention to-that plain ticket headed "Republican ticket," and the one where you made an exhibit of five tickets a moment ago-I call your attention now to these tickets, and ask you to look at them and say whether you found tickets like those in the boxes?-A. These seem to me to be heavier than the tickets there. There may have been tickets of that kind; I am under the impression they are heavier than most of the tickets in there. That is the general style of the tickets. Q. How many tickets do you think there was of the style Mr. Peelle showed you in the boxes-a majority of them?-A. Yes, sir. Q. Did you find some like these in the boxes?-A. I do not say that I did. I say there might have been. Q. Do you say there was not ?-A. No, sir. Q. What is your statement as to whether there was or not?-A. I do not say whether there was any there or not. Q. You counted the tickets?-A. Yes, sir. Q. You do not know whether this kind was there or not?-A. No, sir. Q. You think they are a stouter ticket?-A. Yes, sir; than the general run of our tickets. Q. Did you see the tickets printed?-A. No, sir. Q. Do you know anything about the material upon which they were gotten up on!A. No, sir. Mr. WILSON. I offer as an exhibit to the cross-examination of Mr. Adams the 5 tickets which I have shown him, and ask that they be made exhibits to his deposition. (Objected to for the reason that the tickets have not been identified as the tickets that were voted.) Mr. WILSON. I propose to do that. The tickets will be found attached to this deposition as a part thereof, and marked Exhibits 8, 9, 10, 11, and 12, respectively. Q. You say there was two tallies, 5 each, more votes counted by the election board in Franklin Township than there was names on the poll-book or tickets in the ballotbox? I understand you to say that.-A. I say there was 10 more votes counted for Mr. English than there was names on the poll-book, or ten more votes than there was votes for him in the ballot-box. There was ten more votes counted for Mr. English and Mr. Peelle together than there was tickets in the box. Q. How do you know whether that tally was against Mr. English or against Mr. Peelle!--A. Because Mr. English's voted exceeded that of the State ticket, is my recollection. Q. That is the reason you give that conclusion?-A. That Mr. English's vote, taking off the scratches, that Mr. English had that many more votes to his credit than he should have bad. Q. Did you not say that you did not count the tickets for Congressman at any precinet -A. My attention was called to that afterwards. Q. Did you count the precinct on Mr. Peelle?-A. No. But I looked at the pollbook and saw. Q. How could you tell whether that was for Mr. English or for Mr. Peelle? It was not in excess of the entire number of names on the poll-book, was it?—A. It was not in excess of the names. Q. Was there not 103 votes for Stanton J. Peelle in Franklin Township, precinct No. 17-A. I do not know. Q. I will ask you to look at this paper and see if it is not a certificate of Mr. McLain-A. Yes, sir. Q. Does it not say that there was 103 votes in precinct No. 1 for Stanton J. Peelle in Franklin Township?-A. Yes, sir. Q. And precinct No. 2, 120-A. Yes, sir. Q. And English, in precinct No. 1, 165?-A. Yes, sir. Q. Precinct No, 2, English, 1837-A. 183. Q. Medkirk, 5 at No. 1 and 18 at No. 27-A. Yes, sir. Q. Do I understand you to say there were more votes for William E. English than there was names on the poll-books-A. On the poll-books, as I understand. Q. How does the number of names on the poll-books correspond with the number of tickets in the ballot-boxes?-A. With the number of votes or the number of tickets? Q. With the number of tickets.-A. There was ten more votes counted than there was tickets in the ballot-box. Q. The aggregate of votes in that township exceeded the aggregate of names by ten -A. There was ten more tickets, Republican, Democratic, and National, for Congress than there was names on the poll-book. Q. If you did not count those names, how do you know but what there were scratches there for Mr. English that would give him that vote?-A. Well, we looked over that precinct where that occurred; we looked over the precinct afterwards. Q. How could you tell whether it was for Mr. Peelle or Mr. English -A. Very easily by counting the votes. Q. Did you count the votes for Congress?-A. With reference to the count in that precinct. Q. On Congress ?-A. Yes, sir. Q. Did you not say that you did not count a vote at all!-A. I do not say I did not count at all. I say I noticed that when it was called to my attention. Q. How was it called to your attention?-A. I forget now who called it to my attention, but it was a matter of conversation in the board. Q. Did they count them?-A. Yes, sir; I saw them counted. We witnessed that count. Q. For Congressman?-A. Yes, sir; in that precinct when they ran it over. Q. Who counted them ?-A. My recollection is that Mr. Brown and Mr. Byram both counted them. Q. And you saw them counted on English and Peelle?-A. I have told you that two or three times. Q. I understand you to say two or three times, in the conrse of your examinationin-chief, that you kept no count on Congressmen ?-A. I did not keep any count on Congressmen. Q. And you did not count any precinct on Congressman?-A. I witnessed that count. I did not count it myself individually, but I witnessed that. Q. You say now that they counted for Mr. English more votes than he got by ten?— A. Yes, sir. Q. You say those tickets were counted over and the number of votes English got was counted?-A. Yes, sir; and he had ten tallied for him in excess of what he should have had. Q. Did you count any other precinct on Congressman ?-A. No, sir. Q. Did you watch any other precinct on Congressman-A. No, sir. Q. Mr. Brown called your attention to that mistake, you say?-Á. I do not say that. I say my attention was called to it, but I do not recollect whether by Mr. Brown or Mr. Byram. Q. Mr. Brown called your attention to no mistakes in that recount?-A. On the vote for Congress? Q. Yes, sir.-A. I do not remember that he did, and I do not remember that he did not. Q. Your memory is not clear on that subject?-A. You mean whether he called my attention to it or not? Q. Yes, sir?-A. I do not remember anything about whether he called my attention to it or not. Q. Did not Mr. Brown call your attention to the ticket that he said he had voted for Congressman, and that the ticket he had voted was not in the box at all from the second precinct of the 17th ward?-A. Mr. Brown said his ticket was not in the box; he did not call my attention to the ticket, because he said it was not there. He called my attention to that and said it was not there, though. Q. Is Mr. Brown pretty shrewd and smart?-A. He has that reputation. Q. What do you say?-A. He bears that reputation as a tolerably shrewd politician. Q. Is he not a man of some ability in your estimation?-A. Yes, sir. Q. Is he not pretty good at figures-A. J do not know whether he is or not. |