Cross-examination by Mr. WILSON:

Q. In what you state about the vote in 1880 and 1882 you refer to the vote of the entire ward, or the vote of the precinct where you were inspector?-A. I speak only of the ward, not the precincts.

Q. And in 1880 there were three precincts?-A. No, sir; in 1880 there was one precinct.

Q. When was it there was three?-A. There was three at the township election. That was changed in the spring of 1882, in April. I think.

Q. How many precincts at the election for Congress in 1882?—A. Two precincts. Q. Do you know what the Republican majority was at the precinct where you were inspector at the Congressional election in 1882-what the Republican majority was?—A. [Referring to book.] In 1882?

Q. At the Congressional election in 1882; yes, sir.-A. There was 234 Republican and 98 Democratic.

Q. What majority would that make?

Mr. PEELLE. On what candidate?

Q. I am speaking about the Congressional election of 1882.-A. I believe this was on Peelle and English.

Q. Tell us what the Republican majority was at your precinct at that election.-A. [Figuring.] 234. I do not know whether I understand my own figures or not. I did not tell you right there. The first precinct was 234 Democratic and 249 Republican. I think that is the right way.

Q. What was Mr. Peelle's majority? What was the Republican majority at your precinct at that election?-A. I would not attempt to testify on that, because I do not understand my own figures as I put them in here. I do not know which was which. I have 249 and 317 as the vote in the first precinct, making 566, which was just the same as the vote in 1880 in the two precincts. In 1882 the first gave 234 Democratic and the other gave 98 Democratic, making 332.

Q. I want to get at the Republican majority in the precinct of the thirteenth ward, where you were inspector.-A. I do not think I can tell you until I look up the paper. I think it was 249 in the first precinet, because it was a smaller precinct than the second, and for that reason I would think that was it.

Q. You think that was the vote of the precinct?-A. Oh, I am not sure about that. It may have been just the reverse. It may have been that 317 was the vote at that precinct; as I have it put down here it would be just the reverse from what I think it is. Q. Were you thinspector of the election at the same precinct at the election held for mayor in the last month? A. Yes, sir.

Q. How many precincts in the thirteenth ward at that election?-A. Two. There have only been two elections in which that ward has been divided into two precincts, Q. Do you remember what the Republican majority was at that precinct at the last election?-A. No, sir; I do not.

Q. Do you know whether the Republican majority was more or less at the last election than it was at the preceding?—A. I know it was less. I think that the Republican majority for councilman was in the neighborhood of 150 in my precinet and the general ticket was 25 or 30 less at the last election held this year. There was a large majority in the ward, but in the other precincts it was just the reverse.

Q. Do you not know that the Republican majority at the election for mayor early in October, 1883, in the first precinct of the thirteenth ward, where you were the inspector, was only 1967-A. Perhaps that is correct. I am not sure about that.

Q. Do you not know that the Republican majority at the election in the same precinct of the same ward in 1882 was 151 for Mr. Peelle?-A. Well, I do not recollect about that, I am sure. I know it was a great deal larger vote in 1883 than it was in 1882. Q. But you do know that the Republican majority was less at the election in October, 1883, than it was for Mr. Peelle in 182?-A. I think it was, sir.

Q. You spoke about being able to distinguish the Republican ticket voted at the Congressional election in 1882 by sight when it was in a certain position. -A. Yes, sir; also the vote of 1-3, the city election in the spring.

Q. I am asking you about the election in 1882-A. Yes, sir.

Q. I will ask you whether, in receiving these Republican tickets voted at that election, you did not hold them up between your thumb and finger when they were placed in your hands by the voter, and hold them in that position until the clerk recorded the name and then drop them in the ballot-box; hold them in such a position that they could be seen by bystanders and all persons that chose to look at them at the polls-bystanders and challengers?---A. I might have held some tickets that way. I have no recollection

of it.

Q. You do not say you did not?-A. No, sir.

Q. Is not that generally done by inspectors?-A. I think not, sir.

Q. How did you hold them?-A. I have frequently held a ticket in the mouth of the ballot-box when it was challenged, and I would hold it there and drop it if the challenge was withdrawn, and if it was decided to be all right. I invariably held my wrist on the box when I received a ticket and would hold it over the hole.

Q. Is that the way you did at that election?-A. I can not testify as to the way I held every ticket. I had no uniform way of holding tickets.

Q. Is it not true, in point of fact, in the early part of the day, when those Republican tickets were voted, you held them between your thumb and fingers in such a way that the bystanders could see the ticket--I do not mean the inside of the ticket, but see the ticket that you held between your thumb and fingers before it went into the box?—A. If you mean that I held the ticket in such a way that the bystanders could know what the ticket was, I say no.

Q. I have not asked you if you held it with a view of it being distinguished; I ask you as to the fact?-A. I do not know that I had any general rule about it. I might have held the ticket that way at times, and other ways at other times. I have no uni

form way.

Q. I will ask you this question: Whether you could not by the feel of the Republican ticket tell what it was without it being opened?-A. I think I could.

Q. I ask you further: Whether in the count you say you took the tickets out five at a time out of the box each kind?-A. We counted them by fives.

Q. You say you counted them in bunches of fives; I will ask you whether you did not by feeling take out the Republican tickets in that way without opening them to see whether they were Republican tickets. In other words, did not you put your hands in the box and take out these tickets by feeling them-five at a time?-A. These tickets being folded, I can tell you what my practice was. The tickets being folded in the box, I would take a ticket that way [indicating] and unfold it, and look at the head of the ticket, and run it down to see if there was any paster on it or none of it scratched, and then I would see what the heading would be and if it was a straight ticket, and no scratches on it. I would take it between my fingers in this way [illustrating] and hold it open, and I would take up another ticket headed “Republican Ticket” and run over it the same way, and I would keep it the same way between my fingers.

Q. And in taking them out of the box did you go by your knowledge of the Republican ticket and take them out by feeling them and take the Republican tickets out, bunches at a time?-A. No, sir; I did not take out any bunches at a time. I only took them out of the box one at a time.

Q. But you could tell, as I understand you, when you came to a Republican ticket, that, by the feel of it, it was a Republican ticket?—A. I could tell it was a Republican ticket because of the difference in the paper.

Q. And that was before it was opened?-A. Yes, sir; I could tell before it was opened. I could at the last election, in the same way. If I recollect right, the Democratic ticket was a little heavier at the last election.

Questions by Mr. PEELLE:

Q. Is it not true that at all elections you have been able to do the same thing, and distinguish them?-A. Yes, sir: I have never acted as inspector except at two elections, I believe.

Q. You mean by feeling the ticket you could tell, where you had attended elections?— A. I have always been able to give my judgment upon it. I do not know that I have always been able to tell absolutely. I always thought I could see some difference in the tickets. There is a difference in the width of the tickets sometimes, and sometimes the paper. Where they are the same thickness, one has a little gloss upon it and the other has not, as one of those tickets [indicating] has a little gloss upon it and the other has not. Q. The Republican ticket of 1880 has a little gloss upon it, the State ticket?—A. Yes, sir.

Mr. WILSON. Is not this Republican ticket voted at the Congressional election of 1882 a much thicker and heavier ticket than any ticket voted at any election where you have been inspector?

The WITNESS. I never was inspector at any other election except in 1882. As compared with 1883 it is a heavier paper than in 1882. I do not recollect of my attention being called to the fact that they were more transparent than the others until the election of 1883, when I was on the board, and we talked about that at the time, I recollect.

T. E. CHANDLER,

SILAS L. HARVEY, being first duly sworn, testified as follows:

Direct examination by Mr. PEELLE:

Question. State your name, age, and residence.-Answer. Silas L. Harvey; age, 39; residence, Indianapolis, Ind.

Q. What is your business?-A. I am a deputy county clerk.

Q. How long have you been deputy county clerk?-A. Between fifteen and sixteen years, I think.

Q. Did you attend the Congressional election in this city in November, 1882?—A. Yes, sir.

Q. What precinct and ward?-A. I was in the second precinct, ninth ward.

Q. In what capacity did you act that day?—A. I was assisting the challengers that day.

Q. Did you see the tickets as they were voted that day?—A. Yes, sir.

Q. I now hand you ticket headed Republican Ticket," and marked Exhibit A to the deposition of Mr. Holliday, and I will ask you to state whether that is the ticket used by the Republicans on that day.-A. Yes, sir.

Q. I hand you ticket headed Democratic Ticket," and marked Exhibit B to the deposition of Mr. Holliday, and I will ask you to state if that is the Democratic ticket used that day.-A. Yes, sir.

Q. State if when those tickets were folded in the hands of the voters, with the names on the inside, as tickets are ordinarily folded, whether you could, or not, tell the difference one from the other by sight.-A. I never took any notice of that. I was not right at the window. I never noticed that. I do not know whether I could testify about that. I was off to one side with the poll-book.

Q. You were seeing them voting there, were you?-A. Yes, sir.

Q. As they were folded as men came up with the tickets?-A. Yes, sir.

Q. State whether you were, as a matter of fact, at any time able to tell one ticket from the other by sight?-A. No, sir; not at a glance.

Q. You could tell by feeling?-A. Yes, sir: I could.

Cross-examination by Mr. WILSON:

Q. You are a Republican?—A. Yes, sir.

W. F. BROWDER, being first duly sworn, testified as follows:

Direct examination by Mr. PEELLE:

SILAS L. HARVEY.

Question. State your name, age, and residence.-Answer. W. F. Browder; 33 years old; residence, 94 Hoyt avenue.

Q. What is your profession?—A. I am a lawyer by profession, but at present I am assistant reporter in the supreme court.

Q. How long have you been assistant reporter?-A. This is the eleventh year.

Q. Did you attend the Congressional election in this city in November, 1882?—A. Yes, sir.

Q. What precinct and ward?-A. First precinct, and twenty-first ward.

Q. What capacity did you act in ?-A. I was on the outside; I was not inside. I was watcher at the count, but not inside during the election.

Q. Did you challenge any that day ?-A. No, sir.

Q. Did you see the tickets as they were voted that day?-A. Yes, sir.

Q. I hand you ticket headed "Republican Ticket," and marked Exhibit A to the deposition of Mr. Holliday, and I will ask you to state if that is the Republican ticket voted there that day.-A. Yes, sir; that is the ticket.

Q. I now hand you ticket headed “Democratic Ticket," and marked Exhibit B to the deposition of Mr. Holliday, and I will ask you to state if that is the Democratic ticket voted there that day.-A. Yes, sir; that is the Democratic ticket used that day.

Q. I will ask you if when those tickets are folded separately with the names on the inside, as tickets are ordinarily folded when they are being voted, could you tell or distinguish one from the other by sight?-A. Sometimes we thought we could, but my judgment is we could not. We might pass judgment, but on investigation I found out several times when we thought men voted the Republican ticket that they did not. That was after investigation at the time.

Q. Did you or not as a matter of fact tell or distinguish one of those tickets from the other by sight, as they were folded with the names on the inside?—A. No, sir.

Q. Did you make any effort to do it?—A. The only effort I remember of making to do it of course we looked closely at the tickets when they were voted, to see if we could discover what tickets they were voting, but in the count that evening. I was one of the watchers, and in taking out the ballots, several times we guessed out loud what

the character of the ticket was. I remember of guessing three times at it, saying "Here comes a good Republican ticket" or "Here comes a good Democratic ticket." Mr. Carlton was next to me, and he was guessing at the Democratic ticket and I was guessing at the Republican, but I missed it two out of three times, and Mr. Carlton missed it once or twice.

Q. That was as they were coming out of the ballot-box, being counted that night ?A. Yes, sir; when they were in Mr. Brundager's hands when he was taking them out of

the box.

Q How did the count correspond with the poll-book or register of names?-A. In our precinct?

Q. Yes, sir.-A. It was exact.

Q. Was there any complaint of any kind, and if so, state what, about the character of that Republican ticket that day?-A. I do not recollect of any complaint being made at all.

Q. Was there any objection made to the counting of that ticket to the board by anybody, and if so, by whom?-A. No, sir.

Cross-examination by Mr. WILSON:

Q. Could you tell the difference between those tickets by feeling them?—A. I can. Q. Could you tell the difference between those tickets after knowing the difference, watching them by sight if you got a chance to see them?-A. Well, I do not know whether I could or not, but my subsequent experience as inspector down there has made me believe that it was an impossibility to tell the tickets as they were coming in. many of them are discolored even where they are white and folded up closely you cannot tell even by holding them in your hand for a minute.

So

Q. By sight when you got a chance to look at the ticket carefully and to see plainly after knowing the difference, could you tell the difference by sight?—A. If I could hold the ticket up so that the light could shine through it I think I could tell any ticket. Q. Could you tell this ticket by sight when it was folded up when you got a chance to look at it? A. No, sir: I do not believe I could.

Q. You say you thought that day that you had but you found subsequently that you were mistaken. How did you subsequently find out that you made a mistake?-A. By asking the parties.

Q. And they said they had voted a different way?-A. Yes, sir.

Q. You took their statement as the basis of the statement that you made a mistake?-A. Yes, sir. I will explain how that happened. There would be a man peddling the Democratic tickets and he would hand him a Democratic ticket and there would be a man peddling the Republican ticket and he would hand him his ticket and the man would fold them both and frequently you could not tell which ticket he voted in passing up the chute and in that way we would think differently as to which it was and after it was all over we would endeavor to find out some one among us how the man voted.

Q. You made your guess as to the difference in the character of the tickets that night?— A. Yes, sir.

Q. Where were you-in what sort of a room?-A. Right behind the inspector.

Q. In what sort of a room?-A. In a room about 12 by 13 or 14.

Q. What was the room used for before that?-A. The room is a front room of a dwelling-house.

Q. Did you use gas?--A. No, sir; we had three lamps.

Q. How often did you make guesses?-A. Well, only three times, I believe. There was a good deal of fun passing between Carlton and myself.

Q. What Carlton is that?-A. The bailiff in the court, John Carlton; just in mischief he would say, “ Here goes a Democratic ticket; I know by the looks of it,`` and I guessed once or twice just for fun-three times I believe altogether, and missed it twice and was right once.

Q. What are your politics?—A. I am a Republican, but sometimes I scratch-not often, though.

W. F. BROWDER.

By agreement of all parties the further taking of these depositions was postponed until Wednesday, November 14, 1883.

Parties met pursuant to adjournment.

WEDNESDAY, November 14, 18×83.

CHRISTIAN E. ZIMMERMAN, being first duly sworn, testified as follows:

Direct examination by Mr. PEELLE:

Question. State your name, age, and residence.-Answer. Christian E. Zimmerman; 53 years old: residence, 309 East Merrill street, Indianapolis, Ind.

Q. What is your business?-A. Cabinet-maker by trade.

Q. Did you attend the Congressional election in this city in 1882?—A. I did part of the day.

Q. What portion of the time were you there?-A. I was there in the after part of the day.

Q. Were you a looker-on at the polls?-A. Yes, sir.

Q. Were you there as worker in any way?-A. Not particularly; not specially. Q. Did you notice the tickets as they were being voted?-A. Yes, sir: I saw the ticket. Q. I now hand you ticket headed “Republican Ticket" and marked Exhibit A to the deposition of Mr. Holliday, and I will ask you to state if that is the ticket used by the Republicans on that day.-A. To the best of my recollection that is the ticket.

Q. I now hand you ticket headed “Democratie Ticket," and marked Exhibit B to the deposition of Mr. Holliday, and I will ask you to state if that is the ticket used by the Democrats on that day, or a similar ticket.-A. I think it is. I think I have the tickets filed away at home of both political parties. I usually do that.

Q. What precinct and ward did you attend?-A. Twenty-second ward, north precinct. I do not know whether it was the first or second.

Q. State if when those tickets are folded such as I have shown you, voted in November, 1882, at the Congressional election, as tickets are usually folded by voters, if you could distinguish one from the other.-A. I could not at the time.

Q. Could you when they were voted tell one from the other by the appearance of the ticket without any previous knowledge of the way men voted or who gave them the tickets? A. I do not know as I could without studying the matter. Simply as a bystander, I do not think I could.

Q. You say you made no special effort that day?-A. No, sir.

Q. Was your attention called to the ticket in any way that day?-A. No, sir.

Q. Was there any complaint made at the poll, to your knowledge, of the character of that ticket?—A. Not that I heard of. I did not hear of any complaint at all until some time after this contest was commenced.

Q. State if your attention was called to the ticket on the day of the election; that the Republican ticket was on heavier paper than the Democratic ticket.-A. No, sir; I did not hear anything of that.

Cross-examination by Mr. WILSON:

Q. You say that that is the ticket that was used by the Republicans on that day?— A. I think so; I am not positive.

Q. Was there any other tickets used by the Republicans there?—A. I could not say whether there was or not. I do not remember. To the best of my recollection that is the only ticket I saw.

Q. Can you tell the difference between those tickets by feeling them?-A. I do not know; I suppose I might.

Q. You are a Republican?-A. I am a Liberal; I am not a high Republican.

Q. What do you mean by being Liberal?—A. I vote as I please.

Q. How were you voting in November, 1882?-A. If it is a pertinent question I will

answer it.

M. PEELLE. Just as you choose.

Mr. WILSON. You can do as you please about answering the question. I do not mean what men you voted for; I mean what party you voted with.-A. I generally voted the Republican ticket so far as the ticket is concerned.

Re-examination by Mr. PEELLE:

Q. But you have voted for Democrats frequently?-A. Yes, sir; I have sometimes. Q. In other words, you vote for the men?-A. If I think it is policy to do it.

Q. Did you ever hold any office?-A. No, sir.

Q. Were you ever a candidate for any office?-A. No, sir; I never held any officeno civil office.

CHRISTIAN E. ZIMMERMAN.

HENRY C. BUDDENBAUM, being first duly sworn, testified as follows:

Direct examination by Mr. PEELLE:

Question. State your name, age, and residence.-Answer. Henry C. Buddenbaum; age, 49; and residence, 396 East Ohio street, Indianapolis, Ind.

Q. What is your business?--A. I am now following street sprinkling.

Q. How long have you lived in this city?-A. I came to this city in 1850,

Q. You are a German, I believe?-A. Yes, sir.

Q. You are a Republican in politics? A. Yes, sir.