voted at the Congressional election in 1882 in this city-I mean marked difference when folded? (Objected to as immaterial, irrelevant, and incompetent.) A. I should say that to the sight the difference is more marked on account of the difference in the length of those making a material difference in the width when folded. Q. What would you say as to the difference in the feeling of the tickets compared with the tickets of 1882-A. It would seem as though the Republicans in 1882 had got the Democratic paper of 1880 pretty near. Q. You mean the Republican paper in 1880, don't you?-A. I beg your pardon. I thought that was the Democratic ticket; it was the Republican. You asked me if it is more marked. Q. Yes, sir; how is it as to the touch and feeling of the tickets as compared with the tickets in 1882 when folded?-A. I don't think it is more marked. I believe the question was if it was not more marked? Q. Yes, sir.-A. Not as to the feeling of the paper. I do not think that the difference is more marked when folded on account of the width than the others. Q. What is the difference between the thickness of the national ticket voted for Garfield in 1880 and the Republican ticket voted in 1882 by touch and feeling?—A. the difference in the width? Q. The feeling and the thickness?-A. The Republican ticket of 1882 is a very slight shade heavier paper than the national ticket, and but very little. Cross-examination by Mr. WILSON: Q. You stated in the election in 1880 you undertook to act, as far as possible, nonpartisan, particularly because you were a U. S. marshal?-A. Yes, sir. Q. You were not a regular United States marshal?-A. No, sir. Q. Deputy; appointed for how long?-A. For that day. Q. How many of them were there?-A. In the United States ? Q. In this city? (Objected to as incompetent, irrelevant, and immaterial.) A. I do not know. Q. Was not there about one hundred or one hundred and fifty special deputy marshals? (Objected to as incompetent, irrelevant, and immaterial.) A. I have not the slightest idea as to the number. I never knew. Q. You were appointed by Dudiey, U. S. marshal?-A. Yes, sir. Q. Was there any disturbance at that precinct that day?—A. No, sir; nothing serious. Q. Do you have any serious disturbances at that precinct?-A. No, sir. Q. Either before, or since, or at all?-A. I may have known a little quarreling or jawing, and there was a little that day, and I thought it my duty to take one young man by the arm and lead him off to one side and tell him he had better be still. Q. Mr. Peelle asked you whether, when that Republican ticket was folded as tickets are ordinarily folded by the voters, could you tell that or distinguish that ticket, and, referring to the Republican ticket of November, 1882, is it not true when a ticket is folded in that way it is substantially concealed by the hands of the voters when they go up to the polls, and don't most of them put their tickets in their hands when they go up to vote [indicating]?-A. Men vary in voting, the same as in anything else. As a rule, I would say the average voter folds his ticket and holds it between his thumb and first finger in that way [indicating], an inch or an inch and a half of the ticket sticking out. Q. That is about the way [indicating]-A. Yes, sir. Q. Showing the end and part of the side?-A. Yes, sir. Some, however, come up with the ticket entirely concealed in the hand. Q. If that is true, how could you tell by the length, as you said a while ago, that the Democratic ticket used in the election of 1880 from the Republican ticket, as you said you could?-A. When it passed from the hands of the voter to the inspector, as a rule, the entire ticket is exposed, and especially when the inspector places it at the opening in the top of the ballot-box and holds it until the clerk records the name and then shoves it in. Q. Therefore it is not when a ticket is folded in the hands, as the voter ordinarily folds them, that you have a chance to see what kind of a ticket it is?-A. It is more when it passes from the hands of the voter to the inspector. Q. I ask you the question again as to the character of the ticket when it is folded in his hands as a voter ordinarily folds it?-A. Well, now, mark you, that the length of the ticket before it is folded governs the width of it after it is folded, and if I see but the end I see the width of the ticket, and then know that is is a long ticket as well as if it was opened out and held before me. Here, take these tickets [indicating]. If I hold those tickets in my hand so that nothing but the end shows it shows the width after they were folded, so that it is not necessary for me to see the entire ticket to judge of its length and thus determine as to its length when it was not folded. Q. Then it is necessary that the ticket shall be folded a given way in order to distinguish it?-A. No, sir; I should say folded in the usual way. Q. I ask you if it was folded in the usual way when a voter undertook to conceal his vote by folding it so that it would be of the same width as the other ticket, you could not then determine from the outside appearance?-A. If it is the same width it is thicker. Q. And then you can tell by the thickness?-A. Yes, sir. Q. I will ask you if the Republican ticket folded at the election in November, 1882, is not thicker than any ticket that you ever saw voted by any party at any election in this city. (Objected to as incompetent, irrelevant, and immaterial.) A. No, sir; I think not. Q. Did you ever know a thicker ticket than that ticket voted at the November election, 1882-A. Yes, sir; I knew one as thick, but it was not in this county. Q. What county ?-A. Grant County. Q. Who voted that?-A. The Republicans. Q. How long since ?-A. I do not know that, but I should say it was twelve years ago. Q. About twelve years ago you think you know of one instance where the Republicans used a ticket as thick as this Republican ticket voted and used here in the fall of 1882-A. Yes, sir. I should say so. Q. Was that county a Republican county twelve years ago? (Objected to as not cross-examination.) At that time the They could have it A. Yes, sir. I have known them to vote colored tickets too-red and pink. Q. That was when the law permitted any color?-A. Yes, sir. law did not specify as to what kind of a ticket they should have. on pasteboard if they wanted it, or on a shingle. Q. I will ask you if you can distinguish the Democratic ticket from the Republican by feeling it-the ones that were used in the fall of 1882-A. Yes, sir. Q. How can you do that?-A. The Republican ticket is on heavier paper, and more solid. What they call a finer, smoother finish, I do not know, for I never dealt in paper. Q. Is it not thicker?-A. Yes, sir. Q. Is it not about twice as thick?-A. No, sir; not quite. I do not think it is. I do not think that. I never weighed it to see, but I should say that two Democratic tickets would outweigh one Republican. Q. Would you not say the ratio was about 40 to 90 between the difference in those tickets?-A. No, sir. Q. You do not think so?-A. No, sir; that would be pretty near double. I do not know. I expect a paper man could tell you exactly, but I cannot. Q. You were speaking just now of the difference in the appearance of those tickets used heretofore, the national Democratic and national Republican of 1880. I will ask you if the difference in those tickets does not grow out of the fact, principally the difference in the length, and that the Republican ticket is a great deal stiffer and thicker, and very much like the Republican ticket in color used in this election in 1882; take the national Republican ticket and the national Democratic ticket, and don't you say it was because one differs in length from the other?-A. Yes, sir; but when folded it was wider. Q. Is not that Republican ticket on very stout material, much stouter than the Democratic ticket?-A. Yes, sir; it is what I would call heavier paper than the Democratic ticket. Re-examination by Mr. PEELLE: Q. Was there any complaint there about the character of this Republican ticket by anybody?—A. About ten o'clock, perhaps, in the forenoon, ex-Senator McDonald came to the window with one of those tickets in his hand, and showed the inspector, or called the inspector's attention to, the character of the ticket, and asked them to keep a watch out, and he pronounced them the "spring-backs," and showed us a new trick-it was new to me-how they could be manipulated and two or three voted together and spring open. Q. Is that the only complaint you heard of? A. Yes, sir. Q. Did any one vote two tickets at that precinct?-A. Not that I know of. Q. Do you know how your vote corresponded with the number of names on the pollbooks?-A. No, sir; I never heard but what it was the same. D. B. SHIDELER. A. W. HATCH, being first duly sworn, testified as follows: Direct examination by Mr. PEELLE; Q. State your name, age and residence.—A. A. W. Hatch, and I am 26 years old; my residence, Indianapolis. Q. How long have you resided here ?-A. I have lived here 11 years. Q. What is your business?—A. I am an attorney at law. Q. You are a Republican?-A. Yes, sir. Q. Did you attend the Congressional election in 1882, in this city?-A. Yes, sir. Q. What precinct and ward ?-A. We call it the southern precinct of the 10th ward; I do not know what number it is. Q. Did you occupy any official position that day?-A. No official position. I was one of the challengers. Q. What portion of the day were you there ?-A. I was there all day. Q. Did you see the tickets that were voted there that day?-A. I did, sir; I did not challenge all day, but I was there at the polls all day; I challenged part of the day, Q. I hand you a ticket headed "Republican ticket," and marked Exhibit A to the deposition of Mr. Holliday, and I will ask you to state if that was the ticket used by the Republicans at that precinct on that day ?-A. I should think so; yes, sir. Q. I now hand you ticket headed "Democratic ticket," and marked Exhibit B to the deposition of Mr. Holliday, and I will ask you to state if that is the ticket voted by the Democrats at that precinct on that day?-A. Yes, sir; I should suppose so. Q. Did you handle both of the tickets there that day?—A. Yes, sir. Q. State if when those tickets are folded with the names on the inside, as tickets are usually folded or ordinarily folded by voters and being voted, if you could tell or distinguish one from the other by sight standing by and looking on as challenger — A. No, sir. Q. Did you make any effort to do so ?—A. I did with one voter that I recollect of. Q. Who was that?-A. That was Mr. Samuel Beck, of this city. Q, Why did you make an effort to do that?-A. At that time the temperance question was an issue and I was a little curious to know how he would vote, he being a very strict Methodist and a very strong temperance man and living near me at the time, and I always supposed and understood him to be quite an ardent temperance man. Q. Did you distinguish how he voted that day ?-A. No, sir; I did not. Cross-examination by Mr. WILSON: Q. Could you tell one of those tickets from the other by handling?—A. Yes, sir. Q. You say you undertook to watch to see how Mr. Beck voted, because of your knowledge of his temperance views; was the temperance question involved?—A. Well, yes, it was; it was quite a factor in the canvass, as I understood it. Q. It was a very active question in the canvass and a leading question ?—A. It was one of the leading questions. Q. He was a Methodist ?--A. Yes, sir. Q. And you knew his well-known temperance views, and you wanted to see whether his temperance views would permit him to vote that ticket?-A. Yes, sir; that is the recollection I have about it, and what called my attention to it. Q. Didn't you know he was a life-long Democrat ?-A. Yes, sir; he had always been a Democrat. Q. And you were watching to see how the temperance vote was going in the campaign?-A. I did that with him; I noticed the same thing when he voted at the township election. Q. The same question was presented at the township election ?-A. Yes, sir; it was one of the questions that we considered in both of those elections. Q. Was it not a leading question in that campaign as to how the temperance and antitemperance people were going to vote?-A. Yes, sir; I think it was. Q. Could you describe what constituted the anti-temperance people in that campaign -A. No, sir; I could not. Q. Were not the Germans?-A. Yes, sir; as a rule, they were anti-temperance. Q. Were not the negroes?-A. Anti-temperance? Q. Yes, sir.-A. I could not say as to that; I never talked with a negro in my life on the question. Q. You have always taken an active part in politics here -A. Yes, sir; I have. Q. And do you not know, as a matter of fact, that there was dissension among the negroes on the temperance question? (Objected to as not cross-examination.) A. No; I do not recollect of any particular dissension in that regard. Q. Don't you know they were not inclined to vote the Republican ticket, and that that very reason was a matter of apprehension among the Republicans here, who were afraid they would lose the negro vote on account of the temperance question? (Obiected to as not cross-examination.) A. No, sir; I don't recollect that; I know there was a good deal of talk as to how the colored people would vote at that election. Q. Didn't it grow out of the temperance question?-A. No, sir; I do not think it did; I know I never heard the temperance question discussed in connection with the negro vote; I never did; that is news to me. Q. Were there not many Republicans who were inclined to vote the Democratic ticket on account of the temperance question in that campaign? (Objected to.) A. I expect there was. Re-examination by Mr. PEELLE : Q. State if the only way the question came up in the last campaign on behalf of the Republican party was not that the Republican party in its State platform simply favored submission of the prohibitory amendment to the people for their determination?-A. Yes, sir; that is what I understood to be the question at that time on the temperance question. Mr. WILSON. You are a Republican? A. W. HATCH. By agreement of both parties the further taking of these depositions was postponed until Saturday, Nov. 10th, 1883, at 2 p. m. Parties met pursuant to adjournment. SATURDAY, November 10, 1883. EEWARD F. CULLEN, being first duly sworn, testified as follows: Direct examination by Mr. PEELLE: Q. State your name, age, and residence.-A. Edward F. Cullen; 33 years old; residence, No. 57 West Maryland st., Indianapolis, Indiana. Q. What is your business?-A. Plumber and gas-fitter. Q. How long have you been engaged in that business?—A. I have been here in business for myself for going on three years. Q. You are a Republican ?-A. Yes, sir. Q. Did you ever occupy any official position?-A. Yes; I was in the post-office about three months. Q. How long ago was that?-A. I went out of the post-office just after Mr. Wildman's appointment; two months after his appointment I left the post-office on account of my health. Q. Since that time you have been in the plumbing and gas-fitting business?—A. Yes, sir; I was in it before I went in the post-office. Q. Did you attend the Congressional election in 1882 ?-A. Yes, sir. Q. What precinct and ward?-A. I was in the second precinct of the 16th ward. Q. What capacity did you act in ?-A. I was acting as committeeman. Q. In that precinct-A. Yes, sir. Q. Did you do any challenging that day?—A. I challenged some that day. Q. Did you see the tickets as they were voted there that day?-A. Yes, sir; I saw some of them. I do not know as I saw all of them. I was there pretty near all day. Q. Did you see them as they were being voted by the voters and observe them?— A. Yes, sir. Q. I hand you a ticket, headed "Republican ticket," and marked Exhibit A to Mr. Holliday's deposition, and I will ask you to state if that is the ticket used by the Republicans at that election at that precinct.-A. Yes, sir; I think that is the ticket. Q. I now hand you a ticket, headed "Democratic ticket," and marked Exhibit B to the deposition of Mr. Halliday, and I will ask you to state if that is the ticket that was used and voted that day by the Democrats at that precinct?-A. Yes, sir; I think those are the same two tickets that were used at the polls that day. Q. State if, when that Republican ticket is folded as tickets are ordinarily and usually folded by voters when they vote, if it could be told or distinguished from the Democratic ticket by sight, both being folded with the names on the inside.-A. You could not distinguish them unless you would happen to see the man fold them before he went up. You could not tell the difference between the tickets after they were folded and passed to the ballot-box and to the judge's hands. If the head of the ticket, for instance, this part [pointing], was on the outside, you could see that through, and that was about all that you could tell. If they were folded up and that side opposite from you, you could not tell any difference. Q. The tickets, as ordinarily folded in the hands of the voter and without any previons knowledge of the politics of the man and without seeing him fold his ticket, you could not tell?-A. I do not think you could. Q. Did you or not?-A. No, sir. Cross-examination by Mr. WILSON: Q. Where were you at the polls at that day?-A. I was on the west side of the chute. Q. How did the voters ordinarily fold their tickets when they would go to vote them?-A. They fold them up so that they will go through about an inch opening. Q. How did they carry them ?-A. They carry them in their hands; sometimes it is clear shut up like that [indicating]. Q. Clear shut up so that nothing is seen but the little end and just part of the end! -A. Yes, sir; and or course when it goes down the inspector holds it like this [indicating]. Q. But the voter, as he ordinarily votes his ticket, holds it in his hand so that the ticket is substantially concealed ?--A. Not entirely so. Q. I do not mean entirely, but the main portion is concealed ?—A. Yes, sir. Q. And could he not hold it in his hand so that you could not see the ticket at all? A. Yes, sir, of course; until he passes it to the inspector. Q Couldn't you tell the difference between those tickets by handling them ?—A. Yes, sir; you can do that very readily. Re-examination by Mr. PEELLE: Q. State if you have been able, at elections previous to 1882, to distinguish the tickets by handling them? (Objected to as immaterial, incompetent, and irrelevant.) A. Oh, yes. sir. Q. I hand you a ticket headed “Republican ticket," with the words "For President, James A. Garfield," and marked Exhibit F to the deposition of Mr. Wallace, and I will ask you to state if that is the ticket used by the Republicans at the national election in 1880? (Objected to as incompetent, irrelevant, and immaterial.) A. Yes, sir. Q. I hand you a ticket headed "Democratic ticket," with the words "For President, Winfield Scott Hancock," and marked Exhibit E to the deposition of William Wallace, and I will ask you to state if that is the ticket used by the Democrats on that election, if you remember. (Objected to as incompetent, irrelevant, and immaterial.) A. Yes, sir. Q. I will ask you to fold those two tickets as they are usually folded by voters, and state if you can tell the difference between those two tickets, when folded.-A. Yes, sir. Q. State if those two tickets are folded and in the hands of the voter coming to the polls as tickets are ordinarily folded, if you could tell by sight one from the other in the hands of the voter?-A. No, sir; you could not do it. ED. F. CULLEN. WILLIAM H. MORRISON, being first duly sworn, testified as follows: Direct examination by Mr. Peelle: Q. State your name, age, and residence.-A. Wm. H. Morrison; 267 North Mississippi street, Indianapolis, Indiana; thirty-five years old. Q. What is your business?—A. I am traveling agent for the Indianapolis Journal Company. Q. How long have you been in that position?-A. Twelve years. Q. Do you occupy any official position in this city?-A. I am a member of the city council. Q. How long have you been a member of that body?-A. Something over four years. Q. Did you attend the Congressional election in this city in 1882 ?-A. Yes, sir. Q. What precinct-A. Twelfth ward, and I was at both precincts. Q. Were you challenger any portion of the day?-A. No, sir. Q. What part were you taking at the polls?-Ä. I was looking after the voters. Q. As a worker?-A. Yes, sir. Q. Did you see the tickets as they were being voted ?-A. Yes, sir. Q. State if, when the Republican ticket is folded as tickets are ordinarily folded by voters, if it could be told from the Democratic ticket when similarly folded, both be |