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Q. But news paper don't grow yellow in two or three years, does it?-A. Papers, o course, grow dim with age. I can, of course, only give my experience. Old books, of course, are yellow.
Q. Does old news paper get yellow in that seuse quicker than old books, and don't they get yellow in that way from age ?--A. I suppose a very inferior quality of news paper will grow yellow earlier. * Q. Is not that ordinary news paper that the Democratic ticket is printed on-that national ticket of 1880 ?-A. I would say it was a better quality. It is "challered" or "channeled,” or something of that kind.
Q. Is it not yellowed by age, in your opinion, too 1-A. I do not think that paper is yellowed any with age.
Q. Then that is the natural color, that appearance it has, and you think it is exactly what it was two years ago when it was voted, in point of color, if it does not yellow with age at all I-A. Except from the soiled marks on there, and the general appearance of it being worn. I base my answer from taking a piece here away from the edges where it has not been handled. I have made my answer that I thought the paper was undoubtedly soiled, bnt whether it was faded, as you express it
2. Or yellowed or colored from age; I understand you to say that it is not, and that has made no difference in it 1-A. It has a general old appearance, undoubtedly; but I do not think the paper where it has not been roiled bas changed its appearance.
Q. You think, then, that age has not changed the appearance of that paper, is my • question, and your statement-I do not hardly understand it :-A. Yes, sir.
Q. That age in 1880, at that election and to the present time, that quality of paper you say was not changed in appearance; didn't I understand you to say that the paper got whiter as it gets older -A. If you did, I would like to have my answer read. You asked me if it had not faded, and I said if it had faded with age it would be wbiter now than it was when it was voted.
Q. Do you mean that it was faded or folded 1-A. I mean faded.
Q. The edges of that national Democratic ticket are somewhat frayed and torn on one side ?-A. Yes, sir, they are Q. It looks like it has been handled, and doesn't it look old !-A. It does.
WILLIAM A. VAN BUREN.
WILLIAM N. HARDING, being first duly sworn, testified as follows:
Direct examination by Mr. PEELLE : Q. State your name, age, and residence.-A. William N. Harding; 33 years old ; residence, Indianapolis, Indiana.
Q. What is your occupation i-A. I am a lawyer.
Q. How long have you been in the practice of law in this city 1-A, About four years, I believe.
Q. You are a Republican-A. I am.
Q. State if you did occupy any official position that day.-A. I did not. I was not appointed by the central committee or anything of that kind, or the county commis. sioners.
Q. You were not on the board I-A. No, sir.
Q. What part did you take at the polls ? -A. Part of the time I challenged, and I held the position as challenger and did some challenging.
Q. What precinct and ward ?-A. Thirteenth ward, south precinct. The number of it I do not know. The other part of the time I was at work around the polls.
Q. State if you saw the tickets that were voted there that day by the different parties.-A. Yes, sir.
Q. I hand you now a ticket, headed “Republican ticket," and marked Exhibit A to the deposition of Mr. Holliday, and I will ask you to state if that is the ticket that was used that day by the Republicans.-A. I think it is.
Q. I hand you now a ticket, headed “Democratic ticket," and marked Exhibit B to the deposition of Mr. Holliday, and I will ask you to state if that is the Democratic ticket used that day, if you recollect.--A. I have no recollection of that ticket. The names of the candidates were upon that ticket. It looks like the Democratic ticket that was voted at that time.
Q. That day did you observe the tickets as they were being voted, when they were being folded by the different voters ; did yoii observe the tickets in standing there as they were being voted 1-A. I was a casual observer of the tickets as they were being voted.
Q. And you were challenger there?--A. Part of the time.
Q. State if, when that Republican ticket is folded as tickets are ordinarily folded by voters, if you could tell or distinguish that Republican ticket from the Deinocratic
ticket when similarly folded, by sight 1-A. I do not remember that I could. I do not recollect of an election that ever occurred that I could distinguish the tickets from each other as they were folded and being voted.
Q. By sight?-A. By sight.
Q. Did you, in fact, make any effort at that election to tell how people were voting by just looking at them as they were voting ?--A. I presume I did; I always do.
Q. Did you or not distinguish that ticket from the other as they were folded at that election ?-A. I did not, that I recollect pow.
Cross-examination by Mr. WILSON: Q. You say you were a casual observer?-A. Yes, sir; I was a casual observer as to the voters as they went up in the chute. I was very zealously at work there.
Q. Did you make any particular effort to determine what ticket a man was voting by the ticket, and did you have your attention directed to it, and did you try that?A. I will say this: that there never was an election that I did attend that I did not make that effort.
Q. But you never have been able to tell the difference yet ?-A. I have been able to tell the difference—at least I have been able to tell a difference. This is the way tickets are folded. I will tell you how that difference consists. I remember, in my experience since I have been a voter in the last several years, that the ticket has been a little wider-at least I think it has been generally a little wider-than the Demo- . cratic ticket as a rule. There has been a distinction of that kind to me for several years.
Q. Did I understand you to say that there never has been a time that you could not distinguish them and that you could distinguish them ?-A. I do not think that either way. I said there never had been a time but what I bad zealously watched tickets as they were put in.
Q. I asked you, has there ever been a time when you could distinguish them ?-A. After they were folded up?
Q. Yes, sir.-A. I do not think there ever was a time, unless I would see the ticket being folded.
Q. Not from the character of the ticket, there never was a time 1-A. Now, wait, and I will explain that. I said that as a rule for the last several years there was a difference in the width of the tickets, and if I would see a ticket folded at that time and see it being folded I could probably distinguish between the Republican and Democratic ticket.
Q. That was because the Republican ticket was a little wider, you say !-A. Yes, sir; I think the Republican ticket has been a little wider.
Q. Could you tell that difference when the voter was voting and had it in his hand without watching him carefully; simply the difference in the width of the ticket, being an eighth of an inch, and the ticket on the same kind of paper otherwise, and folded exactly alike and voted, do you think you could tell the difference between the Democratic ticket and the Republican ticket I-A. Not if it was folded. I do not think I could. I said at the time it was being folded.
Q. Now, I will ask you is not that Republican ticket there a good deal thicker and a good deal stouter and a good deal more elastic and a good deal heavier than the Democratic ticket?--A. It is considerably thicker.
Q. More elastic, is it not ?-A. More elastic.
Q. Are not those differences sufficieat to enable you while looking carefully at his . hands after you had familiarized yourself with the difference in the tickets, is it not such that, seeing the end of a ticket as the ticket went in the box, to say that it was a Republican ticket with the springy capacity, or when not springy, its breaking capacity; could not you tell the difference that way 1-A. In the position that I occupied on tbat day, I don't think I could.
Q. Could a challenger tell the difference through handling them and seeing them ?A. The challenger did not handle the tickets, as I understand it.
Q. Could the inspector tell the difference from seeing and handling those tickets on that day ?-A. Yes, sir; I think so. I think to handle the tickets there is a difference in the texture of the tickets.
Q. With all of those differences so perceptible, as you say, to the touch and handling, yon could not, when you had a fair chance to look at them folded, tell the difference, with the aid of your sense of sight?-A. As I remember my experience now at the poils that day, I will state that in the position that I occupied as a challenger, and noticing the voter as he went up to the polls with his ticket doubled up that I could not tell the difference. I will say this farther, that I had the ticket in my hand handling it when I said before I thought I could have told the difference. Q. You think if you had handled it before and then looked on you could have told
H. Mis. 23— 16
the difference?-A. I could not say. I think if I had handled one ticket, and then handled the other ticket, I could have told the difference.
Q. You could have learned the difference !-A. Yes, sir.
Q. After having learned the difference by that inspection, you could not by sight afterwards tell the difference !-A. I think the difference in thickness is so slight it is not perceptible after the ticket is doubled.
Q. I will ask you to look at these two tickets that I have in my hand, folded as they are, and is there any difference in the two tickets? Which is the Republican ticket?A. I think that is the Republican ticket [iudicating).
Q. Yes, sir; that is correct.-A. I saw you fold it up.
Q. No, sir; I did not fold it up; it was folded laying just as I picked it up.-A. I can see the different springy part; I can tell the difference on close sight.
Q. If there is that difference in the thickness when unfolded, would there be the same difference in the thickness when folded !-A. There will the same difference, but not so perceptible.
Q. Would it not be more perceptible when folded, because isn't the bulk larger? Take two similar tickets, and one is doubled up and so is the other, and see if the difference is pot more perceptible to sight when it is doubled up than otherwise :A. Yes, sir; that is true.
Q. Therefore, when you double that Republican ticket up in eight plies, and the Democratic ticket in eight folds, there is a marked difference when you press them together 1-A. On close sight there is. Mr. PEELLE. Looking at them together? The WITNESS. Yes, sir.
Q. Look at those two tickets about the distance of two and a half feet. Is there quite a difference still?-A. Let me hold them. 'Q. Yes, sir; I will let you hold them. Hold them so the light can fall on them, and not so it will be in the dark, and press them together at arm's length, and I will ask you now is there not a very perceptible difference when your attention is directed to that matter in that way 1-A. I cannot say there is a very perceptible difference.
Q. Cau't you see the difference?-A. I can see a slight difference, perhaps two feet from me in my hands holding them.
Q. And in my hands, the way I hold them the same distance, you would see the same difference, held at the same distance from you?
(No response )
Q. And you are announced as a candidato for prosecuting attorney !-A. I hope to be the next prosecuting attorney.
Q. You are a candidare before the coming Republican convention for prosecuting attorney 1-A. I am a candidate for the nomination, if I can get it at the next convention in this county. Q. You take a good deal of interest in politics ?-A. I always have.
WILLIAM N. HARDING.
ALFRED R. HOVEY, being first duly sworn, bestified as follows:
Direct examination by Mr. PEELLE: Q. State your name, age, and residence.-A. Alfred R. Hovey; my age is thirty; my residence is in the twelfth ward in this city.
Q. What is your business I-A. I am a lawyer.
Q. How long have you been practicing law ?-A. Well, it bas been a little more than five years. I was admitted to the practice in the Federal court. I did not have much practice for the first couple of years, or such a inatter.
Q. Did yon ever occupy any official position ?-A. I never have
Q. Was you not attorney once for the county 1-A. My partner and myself were appointed by the county commissioners in this county in the fall of 1880 to defend the paupers in the criminal court; such persons as were not able to employ counsel, and we held that position two years.
Q. Did yon attend the election in this city in 18827-A. I did.
Q. Did you see the tickets voted at that precinct by the Democrats and Republicans 1-A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you have any particular business that day there ?—A. I was Republican clerk of the board that day.
Q. State if you saw the tickets as they were being voted and handed in to the inspector.-A. Yes, sir.
Q. I now hand you this Republican ticket, marked Exhibit A to the deposition of
Mr. Holliday, and I will ask you to state if that is the Republican ticket voted at that precinct for Congressman and other candidates.-A. Yes, sir; that is just like the tickets that were voted.
Q. I hand you now this ticket, headed Democratic ticket, and marked Exhibit B to the deposition of Mr. Holliday, and I will ask you to state whether that is the ticket voted by the Democrats at that precinct.-A. It is exactly similar to those that were voted there.
Q. State if. when that Republican ticket is folded as tickets are ordinarily folded by voters when voting, it, when so folded, you could tell or distinguish that ticket by sight from the Democratic ticket similarly folded.--A. I know I tried often on the day of the election to distinguish which ticket was being voted, and I could not do it.
0. State if there was any complaint made to the board on that day about the character of the Republican ticket by any body.-A. I never heard one word spoken about the difference between these tickets until after the electon was over and the count had.
Q. Did the count at that precinct correspond with the number of names on the pollbook ?-A. It did within either one or two. There was a discrepancy of one or two votes there, I think.
Cross-examination by Mr. WILSON: Q. You say you never heard of any complaint about the difference in those tickets until after the election was over 1-A. I never heard any person say that there was any difference, or speak about there being any differeuce, between the tickets.
Q. Your attention was not called to the fact that there was any difference by any person ?-A. I never talked with any one about it.
Q. You never heard any one speak of the difference and you never spoke about the difference to any one and you never heard of the difference until after the election was over and the count had ?-A. No, sir.
Q. You were a clerk sitting inside?--A. Yes, sir.
Q. You are a Republican and the partner of Mr. Harding, who has just testified !-A. Yes, sir.
ALFRED R. HOVEY. By agreement of the parties the further taking of these depositions was adjourned until Friday, November 8th, 1883.
FRIDAY, November 9, 1883–2 o'clock p. m. The parties met pursuant to adjournment. Joan H. BOWLBY, being first duly sworn, testified as follows:
Direct examination by Mr. PEELLE: Q. State your name, age, and residence.-A. John H. Bowlby; 42 years old; 263 South Pennsylvania street.
Q. What is your business I-A. Railroad conductor. Q. What road have you been connected with 1-A, I have been on the I. B. and W. for 13 years.
Q. Did you attend the election in this city last November for candidates for Congress I-A. Yes, sir.
Q. What precinct and ward ?-A. Seventeenth ward ; second precinct.
Q. What portion of the day were you at that precinct there 1-A. I was there all the morning; in fact all day, except about two hours, when I was away.
Q. What did you do when you were there; did you act in any official capacity in any way, or simply work at the polls 1-A. I just worked there at the polls.
Q. Handling tickets, were you ?-A. I had Republican tickets, that is all.
Q. I hand you now a ticket, headed “Republican ticket," and marked Exhibit A to the deposition of C. F. Holliday, and I will ask you to state if that is the ticket that was used by the Republicans at that precinct, or a similar ticket.-A. I do not know hardly whether that is the ticket we used that day or not.
Q. What is your recollection about it?- A. The heading seems to be; it is the same kind of a ticket.
Q. I now hand yon a ticket, headed - Democratic ticket,” and marked Exhibit B to the deposition of Mr. Holliday, and I will ask you to state if that is the ticket that was used by the Democrats at that precinct as you recollect it, if you have any recollectiou upon the subject.-A. Well, I could not say. In fact, I did not handle any Democratic tickets that day. My impression is, it is that kind of a ticket.
Q. State if, when that Republican ticket is folded as tickets are ordinarily folded by voters when they vote, whether you could tell that Republican ticket from the Democrat ticket when similarly folded in the hands of the voter when looking on, by sight.-A. I do not think I could by looking on.
Q. State if there was auy disturbance at that ward that day when you was there, and if so, what it was ?--A. Nothing more than usual; not to my knowledge, that is nothing out of the way.
Q. Was there any arrest made there or any threatened arrest of any body made by by the police down there?-A. Not to my recollection.
Q. Do you remember a gentleman down there by the name of Schoettle, who was swearing in Democratic votes that were challenged ?-A. Chris. Schoettle was swearing in some votes. He keeps a saloon across the street there.
Q. Was he there all day :-0. He was there off and on. His place of business is upon the opposite corner there, and he would go home and come back every little bit. "Q. He went backwards and forwards ?--A. Yes, sir.
Q. Do you remember that day of a Mr. Frenzel, from the Merchants' National Bank, coming down there 1-A. No; I do not know him. I would not know him, I do not suppose, if I would see him.
Q. You do not remember of having seen him there ?-A. No, sir.
Q. If there was any disturbance there that day, were you in a position to know it!--A. I should think I would be. I generally stand there all day, and I have for the last six or seven years.
Q. You say you heard of no disturbance there?-A. No, sir; I was trying to think. Martin Powers had some disturbance with a fellow, but whether it was at that election or not I cannot tell. That is the only disturbance I recollect of, to my knowl. edge, of there being down there. It appears as though some fellows— I do not know whether it was on that election. I was just trying to think, but that is the only disturbance I ever saw there.
Q. What was the character of the disturbance !-A. I cannot tell pow exactly what. It happened there by Bryce's bakery, where they were inside the yard, I think, where the wagons drive into the stables.
Q. Do you reneinber the character of the disturbance, what it was and what it consisted of 1-A. I do not recollect at all. Martin Powers struck some one or else some one struck him, one or the other, but I forget which it was.
Q. State if there were any policemen at that precinct that day.-A. The policemen interfered, and took--I will tell you who it was; it was this Bill-telegraph repairer that used to live by me there. I think he is on the Vincennes road, as line repairer. . Q. Is he the man that got struck ?-A. That is what I was saying. I do not know whether he struck Powers or whether Powers struck him. At any rate, the police took him to the station-house or took him away. I was trying to think whether it was at this election or not, but that is the only disturbance I remember of seeing there.
Q. Were there any policemen at that precinct that day!-A. Yes, sir.
Q. State what part the policemen took there that day. What did they do there that day?-A. I did not see them take any part, that is, any political part.
Q. State what they did, if anything.-A. They stood around there all day.
Q. If they did anything other than stand around there to preserve the peace you may state it.-A. Not to my knowledge.
Q. State if the police challenged any votes there that day at that precinct.-A. Not that I recollect of.
Cross-examination by Mr. Wilson :
Q. Was there not more than two 1-A. The captain was there awhile. He drove down there.
Q. And were those two all that you recollect of? Who were those two 1-A. I can not call their names. I never can call names very well. In fact, I am not well ac quainted with none of them by name. Campbell was there off and on.
Q. And Crane-was he there once in a while ?-A. Crane-I do not know by name. I know him by sight, I expect.
Q. Do you know Mr. Gerber, a policeman:-A. No, sir.
Q. Captain Splann, was he there ?-A. He is a large man, is he not? I am not particularly acquainted with Captain Campbell, but I know most of them by sight.
Q. You say some of these policemen were around there all day ?-A. Yes, sir.
Q. And they were thepe to keep order ?--A. I suppose that is what they were there for.
Q. Was there any particular need of having order kept at that precinct 1-A. I did not see anything out of the way.
Q. Was it not true that they threatened to arrest Mr. Schoettle if he did not quit swearing in votes, and did not they stop him, and was there not a space of time there for, say, an hour or so, when a Democratic vote was not sworn in, although there were Democrats there to be sworn in and who were challenged ?-A. He challenged
- Q. Was it not true that for an hour or more there was a period when there were