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TUESDAY, Oct. 2nd—10 a. m.
Parties met pursuant to adjournment.
W. O. DEVAY, being first duly sworn, testified as follows:

Direct examination by Mr. WILLON, attorney for Mr. English :
Q. State your name and age.-A. W. 0. DeVay; I am 33 years old.
Q. Do you reside in this city 1-A. I do.
Q. How long have you lived here 1-A. Since 1876.
Q. What is your business I-A. The paper business.
Q. How long have you been engaged in that business ! -About ten years.

Q. You say you are in the paper business; what do you mean by that; what is the character of your business I-A. My business is making and handling every variety of paper; manufacturing and selling.

Q. Are you in the wholesale business I-A. Yes, sir.
Q. Do you retail?-A. To some extent; not very largely.
Q. You are in the wholesale paper business I–A. Yes, sir.

Q. Are you a branch house of any company!-A. The same capital that owns and controls the Cleveland Paper Co. owns and controls the house I ain connected with“ The Indiana Paper Company."

Q. Were you in the city of Indianapolis at the time of the Congressional election November 7th, 18821-A. Yes, sir.

Q. If you were at any precinct where voting was done, where was it 1-A. I do not know what the precinct is; it is the 17th ward, right opposite to my place of business on Maryland st.

Q. Did you see the Democratic, Republican, and National tickets voted at that election ?-A. Yes, sir.

Q. I hand yon this ticket; was that the Republican ticket that was used and voted at that election I-A. To the best of my recollection, it was.

Mr. WILSON. We offer that ticket in evidence as a part of the deposition of this witness, aud ask that the same be identified by the notary.

The ticket was identified by the notary as Exhibit B to the deposition of W. 0. DeVay, and will be found attached to this deposition.

The WITNESS. It was a ticket similar to that.

Q. Who was the candidate for Congress on the Democratic ticket at that election A. Mr. English.

Q. Who on the Republican ticket I-A. Mr. Peelle.

Q. Was there any figure, embellishment, or distinguishing mark at the head of said Republican ticket, or elsewhere, to designate it!

(Objected to as incompetent, for the reason that the ticket will show for itself.)

A. I could have told the ticket from any of the others I saw there at the polls that day.

Q. Was any part of the ticket engraved 1--A. Not being an expert(Objected to as incompetent, as the ticket shows for itself.).

The WITNESS. (Continuing. My impression is that the head of the ticket is an en. graved heading; but, not being an expert in printing—from my knowledge of it I would say that it was an engraved head printed on the ticket. Mr. TAYLOR. You said you had not had any experience.

The Witness. I am not a competent judge. I am not a critical judge enough to tell whether it is a printed head or an engraved head, but my judgment is, it is an engraved head.

Q. You are not an expert in engraving 1-A. No, sir.
Q. Is that ticket on plain white paper ?
(Objected to as incompetent; that the ticket will show for itself.)
A. No, sir; it is not.
Q. Is it plain white writing paper !

(Objected to as incompetent; that the ticket will show for itself; also, as being leading.).

A. No, sir.
Q. Is the ticket plain white book paper ?
(Objected to for the same reasons.)
A. No, sir.

Q. What is the material on which this ticket, that you have made an exhibit, is printed ?

(Objected to as incompetent; that the ticket can show for itself.)

A. The ticket is printed on what is termed and designated as plate-paper in our business.

Q. Is that a kind of material known in the trade as either print, writing, or book paper 1-A. No, sir.

Q. Do yon buy it or sell it as either print, writing, or book paper! (Objected to as immaterial.)

[graphic]

A. No, sir.

Q. If a man would come to your store and ask to buy plain white paper, would you show him such material as this ticket is printed on?

(Objected to as incompetent and immaterial.)
À. No, sir.
Q. Do you call the material on which this ticket is printed, plain white paper !
(Objected to as leading, and that the ticket shows for itself.)

À. We call that "plain white plate.” That is what we call it if we were desig. nating it. We would say “white plate." That is the way we would bill it, and the way we would charge it; and the way we have done ever since I have been in the basiness.

Q. Is that what the manufacturers would call it :-A. Yes, sir.

Q. What is it called in the printed catalogue issued by the principal dealers in such goods ? (Objected to as immaterial.) A. Plate paper. Q. What is it called in your invoice bills and books! (Objected to as immaterial.) A. Plate paper.

Q. Did you sell any such plate to William B. Burford, of this city, before the Congressional election ?

(Objected to as immaterial and irrelevant.)

A. Öur house has sold Mr. Burford and the house of Braden & Burford plate paper for years.

Q. In making the entry of the sale on your books did you call it writing paper, print paper, book paper, plain white paper, or plate !

(Objected to as incompetent, irrelevant, and immaterial.)
A. We called it plate paper.
Q. What is such material generally sold for:
(Objected to as immaterial.)
A. Lithograpbing. It is very seldom used for any other purpose.
Q. Does Mr. Burford do a lithographing business 1-A. Yes, sir.

Q. Do you ever sell such material as plain white writing, plain white print, or plain white book paper ?

(Objected to as immaterial and leading.)

À. We sell it, but we do not have it called for in that way. It is designated by the quality, print, book, or writing.

Q. Do you ever call it plain white paper at all I–A. No, sir; we do not. Everybody is supposed to know, for it is a different color from white. We designate the color by saying "blue," "pink," "green," etc. In every order we get we suppose white is meant unless it is designated otherwise.

Q. Do you ever sell it as either writing paper, print paper, or book paper (Objected to as immaterial.)

3. If a man comes into our house and wants a ream or ten reams of print paper he gives us the size and weight. He says, “I want ten reams 25 by 38."* If he wants book paper, he says, “I want book paper," such a size and weight. It is designated by "print" or "newspaper.” .

Q. Would you furnish him this material 1-A. No, sir.

Q. Did you have this “ lithographic plate," such as the Republican ticket is printed on, for sale at the time of said election!

(Objected to as immaterial.) A. We had plate paper, and have had ever since we have had a house. Q. Of that quality and weight 1-A. To the best of my knowledge, we have had. Q. Does a mill that makes print paper ever make this lithograph paper ? (Objected to as immaterial.) A. No, sir; they cannot make it.

Q. Does a mill that makes writing paper ever make this lithograph paper ?-A. They can make it, but will not.

Q. Is this " lithograph plate” manufactured or sold for general use or for a limited and specific use; if so, what?-A. It is made for a specific use that of lithographing or engraving on, and it is very rare that it is ever put to any other use but lithographing. It is made specifically for lithographing purposes.

Q. In your long experience did you ever know it to be used for election tickets before? (Objected to as immaterial and leading.) A. No, sir; I never did.

Q. Is lithograph plate, such as this Republican ticket is printed on, made in the same way as either writing paper or print paper ?

(Objected to as immaterial and leading.) A. It is made in the same manner that writing paper is made, but out of entirely dif

ferent stock. You might say it is made in the same manner that print is made, but on entirely different stock.

Q. Has it the same number of sheets to the ream ?-A. A ream of writing, or of print? Q. Of either.--A. No, sir; it is put up different amounts per ream.

Q. Explain the difference.-A. Writing paper is put up, unless specially ordered, 480 sheets to the ream and 24 sheets to the quire. A ream of print paper is 480 sheets to the ream and a ream of lithograph plate is put up 500 sheets to the ream. It is so known and listed.

Q. What is the weight of a ream of plain white print paper, size of sheets 25 by 38, say (objected to as immaterial); and what was it worth per ream at the time of said election?

(Objected to as immaterial.)

A. A ream of print paper, standard size and weight, 25 by 38, would be 30 pounds to the ream; and the price at that time, as near as I can recollect, was from $1.80 to $1.95 per ream.

Q. Is 25 by 38 a standard ?-A. That is one of the standard sizes. That is the basis.

Q. What is the weight of a ream of plain white book paper of the same size?-A. A ream of 25 by 38 book paper would be from 45 to 50 pounds; standard used in this state is 45 pounds to the ream, 25 by 38.

Q. What was it worth per ream at the time of the election ?-A. Plain white book, a year ago, was worth not over $4 for 50-pound reams, and not to exceed $3.60 for 45pound.

Q. What is the weight of a ream of lithograph plate, such as this Republican ticket is printed on, of the same sized sheets, namely, 25 by 38?

(Objected to as incompetent and immaterial.)

A. A ream of that paper would weigh 100 pounds to the ream, 25 by 38. The lowest market price there has ever been on that has been ten cents a pound, which would make it $10. That is the price we have sold it at. That is the lowest market price I have ever known of it. I presume that that paper at that time cost more money.

Q. Please repeat the relative weight of plain white print paper, plain white book paper, and this plate, the same sized sheets-all of standard dimensions.

(Objected to as immaterial and leading.)

À. The plain white or print paper would be 30 pounds to the ream, 25 by 38, giving the same basis of size; book paper from 45 to 50, making 15 to 20 pounds difference; plate would be 100 pounds, which makes 50 pounds more.

Q. I do not know as I understood exactly what you said as to the price of this plate paper at the time of this election.-A. I could not say, from the fact that I would have to refer to our books and see what we were selling it at; but I know it was higher. My recollection is we were getting twelve cents a pound for our plate paper at that time or about that time, but what we were getting I would not say positively. I say now that we are getting ten cents a pound, and it is the lowest price we ever sold it at.

Q. At twelve cents a pound it would be $12 a ream? -A. Yes, sir.

Q. Do you think that a fair price for it at that time?-A. Yes, sir, I do; I could tell by referring to our books at that time just what we got.

Q. If one of your customers should buy for election tickets this lithograph plate at $10 or $12 per ream, when he could get good plain white book paper at $3.60 to $4 per ream, and plain white print paper at $1.80 to $1.95 per ream, would you not think he was either very ignorant or had some design in it?

(Objected to as immaterial and incompetent, and as seeking an opinion rather than a fact.)

A. I would think there was something wrong. I would not think a man of good reason would buy that kind of paper and pay that price for it when the other would do in that article, whether he wanted to use it for elections or not.

Q. Would it be any more difficult to counterfeit a ticket on lithograph plate than on plain white, print paper or book paper?-A. Well, I do not think it would. It would depend a good deal on what kind of a counterfeit you wanted to make. In printing it would not. It would be easier to counterfeit heavier paper, because print and book paper, being lighter, would show any design quicker than plate paper, from the fact that plate paper is so exceedingly heavy.

Q. When one of these Republican tickets was lightly folded would it remain folded or spring open ?

(Objected to as immaterial.) A. The plate ticket, do you mean? Q. Yes, sir.-A. You cannot fold it; it would not stay folded tight like a print ticket.

Q. If another ticket was folded inside this ticket, and thus folded said tickets were dropped into the ballot-box, would this ticket be likely to spring open and separate so as to release the inclosed ticket and make two ballots ?

(Objected to as immaterial and leading.)

[graphic]

A. In my opinion it would, from the fact that it will not stay folded.
Q. Did you see the Democratic ticket voted at that election ?-A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you see the National ticket voted at that election ?-A. Yes, sir.

Q. Could you distinguish this Republican ticket when folded with the name inside from those tickets, or either of them, by sight or touch?

(Objected to as immaterial and incompetent, for the reason that there is no evidence as to the character of the National or Democratic tickets, or whether they were of heavy or lighter paper.)

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Could you distinguish said Republican ticket voted for Stanton J. Peelle from the Democratic ticket voted at said election, said tickets being folded separately with the Dames inside; and, if so, how ?

(Objected to as immaterial and leading, there being no evidence as to the character of the Democratic ticket, and whether it was on heavier or lighter paper.)

A. If Stanton J. Peelle's name was on the ticket, as it is here, I could tell it every time. If you want to know why, I will very soon show you. Take that ticket in your hand and you cannot hold it like print or like book paper without doubling it up in that way (illustrating]; and if a man goes up to the polls you could tell every time. But you take a print paper or a light paper and it will not stand out; and that is the reason why. You cannot pull that ticket down unless you press it, and then you cannot keep it down. That ticket will spring back in spite of you.

Q. Could you distinguish said Republican ticket voted for Stanton J. Peelle from the National ticket voted at that election, both being folded with the names inside; and, if so, how?

(Objected to as immaterial and leading, for the reason that there is no evidence as to the character of the National ticket, whether it was on heavier or lighter paper.)

A. I could.
Q. Could you do it by sight?-A. Yes, sir.
Q. Could you do it by touch?-A. Yes, sir.

Q. Could you distinguish said Republican ticket voted for Stanton J. Peelle from any ticket of like length and width that was either on plain white print paper, or writing paper, or book paper ?

(Objected to as immaterial.)

A. I could have if it was the same weight and size of the Democratic and National tickets.

(Answer objected to, for the reason that there is no evidence to show that the Democratic and National tickets were of the same size as the Republican ticket.)

Q. Could you distinguish the Democratic ticket voted at that election from the National ticket voted at that election, the tickets being separately folded with the names of the candidates inside?

(Objected to, for the same reason.)
A. No, sir; I do not think I could. I know I could not.

Q. I understood you to say that you saw the tickets voted at that election for the respective candidates.-A. I did.

Q. I show you this ticket headed "Democratic ticket." Is that the ticket voted and used at that election by the Democratic party ?-A. Yes, sir.

Q. I show you another ticket printed at the head “National ticket," and ask you if that was the ticket that was voted at that election by the National party ?-A. Yes, sir.

Mr. Wilson. We offer those two tickets in evidence as a part of the deposition of Mr. De Vay, and ask that the same be identified and marked as exhibits by the notary.

(The tickets were marked as follows: The Democratic ticket was marked Exhibit C to the deposition of W. O. De Vay, and the National ticket was marked Exhibit D to the deposition of W. O. De Vay, and they will both be found attached to this deposition.)

Q. Could the inspector and other election officers tell by these plate tickets, even when folded with the names of the candidates on the inside, whether or not the person voting at said election was voting the Republican ticket?

(Objected to as immaterial, for the reason that this witness cannot tell what the election board would do under such circumstances.) Mr. WILSON: We offer him as an expert.

A. My idea is if a man wanted to know and was interested to know, he could seeing it from my stand-point. I know I could.

Q. Could persons looking on at the polls at said election tell these Republican tickets when the voters handed them to the inspector and when the inspector placed them in the ballot-box, even when carefully folded with the names inside?

(Objected to as immaterial.)

A. I can tell what I know. I could tell what the politics were standing looking on, and did do it.

Q. Do you know whether other persons there identified tickets looking on, or not?A. Yes, sir.

Q. You know they did ?-A. Yes, sir. Mr. Dean, of Woodford, Dean & Co., called my attention to it down at the polls, and he was challenging at the time, and I had my attention called further to it from the fact that handbills were posted up at the election places notifying and warning the people of such tickets being voted.

Mr. PEELE: That these tickets were being voted (indicating]?—The WITNESS. Yes, sir; I think so. I am not positive, but I think that was done.

Q. I will ask you how long you have been in this paper business, handling and selling paper?-A. Ten years.

Q. You have been constantly engaged in it?-A. Yes, sir; nothing else. It has been my business the best part of my life.

Cross-examination by Mr. PEELLE: Q. Are you a Democrat?-A. I am.

Q. Is that Republican ticket that you made part of your evidence-is it on paper ?A. It is plate paper.

Q. Is it card-board, or is it bristol-board, or is it paper ?--A. It is plate paper.
Q. What is the color of that ticket?-A.' It is white.
Q. Is it plain white, or tinted ?-A. It is plain white.
Q. Had you any bet on Mr. English in this election ?-A. No, sir; I did not.

By Mr. WILSON:
Q. Did you vote at that election ?-A. No, sir; I did not.

WM. O. DE VAY.

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