A. Not to my knowledge. Q. What effect would it have upon the secrecy of the ballot for one party only to use tickets printed upon the material upon which that Republican ticket is printed and for the others to use plain white paper? (Objected to as a conclusion of law.) A. I do not know what you mean as to the effect. Do you mean going to the polls with these papers? Q. Yes, sir.—A. They would be distinguished where other paper would not be. Any person with half an eye could see that in contradistinction to the other. Q. What is the material upon which that Democratic ticket is printed ?-A. It is plain white paper. It is the plainest kind and thinnest kind; a litte too thin may-be Cross-examination by Mr. PEELLE: Q. What are your politics?-A. It would be very hard for me to state my politics. Q. Were you a supporter of the Democratic ticket last fall -A. Yes, sir. Q. State if that Republican ticket is printed on paper.-A. No, sir; that is not paper. Q. What is it?-A. A species of card-board. Q. What is card-board ?—A. You might say that anything of that sort was paper probably. Q. That is paper, then, is it not?-A. Even a blank card is paper. Q. That Republican ticket is printed on paper?-A. Not in the general acceptation of the phrase. Q. It is paper, is it not?-A. I presume it is. It may be straw; even paper is made from straw and printed on. Q. That is paper, is it not?-A. Yes, sir; I suppose it is. Q. The color of the ticket is plain white ?-A. Yes, sir. Q. Then it is plain white paper?-A. Not in the common acceptation of the phrase, it is not. Q. Is it not plain white paper of one quality ?—A. No, sir. Q. Has it any quality? A. Yes, sir. Q. What is it?-A. The quality is a two-ply or a ply and a half. Q. You say it is paper ?-A. Yes, sir. Q. And it is plain white in color?-A. Plain cards are probably upon paper. Q. Is it not plain white in color?-A. Yes, sir. Q. Is not that Democratic ticket on book paper -A. No, sir; it is common print paper. Q. You differ from the other witnesses.-A. I do not know whether I do or not. I have not heard them. Q. If you testify it is print paper, you differ from them.-A. Yes, sir; I differ entirely. It is common print paper. Book paper is a better quality. Books may be printed on that same kind of paper, but book paper is a different quality and much superior to that. That is what I call print paper. Q. Is print paper plain white paper?—A. Yes, sir. Q. Is book paper plain white paper?-A. Yes, sir. Q. Then there are different kinds of white paper -A. Yes, sir. Q. I will ask you again if that Republican ticket is not printed on plain white paper of one quality ?-A. No, sir; it is not printed on plain white paper of any quality. It is not printed upon book-paper. Q. It has no quality?—A. Yes, sir; it has a quality; the quality that cards are printed from, or lithographed. Q. You say there are different kinds of plain white paper?-A. Yes, sir; only when it goes to a certain extent it ceases to be paper and becomes card-board. Q. Before that time there are different kinds of white plain paper?-A. Yes, sir. Certainly. Q. And there is no one single kind of paper that is designated and known as plain white paper?-A. No, sir. Paper may be thin and cost $3, and paper may be thick and cost $6 and $8; but to call that paper, it is not paper, it is card-board. This Republican ticket is not even book paper. Q. That Republican ticket?-A. Yes, sir. Although books, I have no doubt, have been printed on such paper. Q. Did you see the national ticket voted at the election last November?-A. I do not recollect. Q. I will show you now the ticket headed "National ticket" and marked as Exhibit D to the deposition of W. O. De Vay.-A. That is a thinner quality of paper still. Q. What kind of paper is that?-A. Plain white paper of a thinner quality than the Republican ticket. Mr. ENGLISH. You mean the Democratic ticket? Mr. PEELLE. Let him answer. The WITNESS. That is thinner paper still than this. Q. Which?-A. The Democratic ticket. Q. It is a thinner ticket than the Democratic ticket? A. Yes, sir. It cost less money. Q. What kind of paper is it?-A. Plain white paper. paper. What is the technical name for it?-A. No particular name but plain white Q. Print or book paper?-A. Print paper. Q. And the same as the Democratic ticket ?-A. Yes, sir. Q. Only of a less quality ?-A. Yes, sir. Q. Did you ever see any of the paper of the kind that the Republican ticket is printed on, before?-A. I presume I have, sir, and I may have printed on it before even. Q. Where?-A. In Cincinnati. Q. How long ago?-A. Twenty or thirty years. Q. Have you seen it since?-A. I have seen the paper floating around. I have seen it used for purposes. I have seen it used for the purpose of some genealogical affairs; some man in Cincinnati had a book printed on that paper. Q. A book printed on the same material as that Republican ticket?-A. Yes, sir. Q. Have you not seen public documents printed on that kind of paper?-A. I have seen public documents printed on vellum, I suppose, but I do not think I ever saw public documents printed on that kind of paper in my life. Q. Have you not seen public documents printed on as heavy paper as that?—A. Yes, sir; probably heavier. Q. Then it may be used for books?-A. It may be. Q. You have had no experience in dealing with that kind of paper for 20 years?— A. No, sir. Q. And you cannot recall that you ever had that kind of paper in your custody?— A. I have not printed on it for twenty years. When I was in the book and jobbing business I have had that paper often for jobs, but I never would call it paper. sir. Q. You say that Republican ticket can be distinguished from book paper?-A. Y 8, Q. Yet you say that may have been used and has been used for book purposes, and heavier paper?—A. No, sir; I never said it had been used for book purposes. I said I had seen it used for some genealogical purposes by some man in Cincinnati. Q. Is not that simply book paper of a heavy quality ?-A. No, sir; it is not book paper at all. It would not be called paper under the general acceptation of the word. Q. Did you have any bet on the result of the Congressional election last fall?—A. Nary bet. I am conscientiously opposed to betting unless I have a good show, and I didn't have a good show there. JAMES T. DOWLING, being first duly sworn, testified as follows: ENOC B. REED. Direct examination by Mr. WILSON, attorney for Mr. English: Question. Your name, age, and residence?-Answer. James T. Dowling; 31 years; 187 West South street, Indianapolis, Ind. Q. How long have you resided in this State ?-A. Since 1874. Q. Were you in the city at the election held November 7th, 1882, for Congress, in this district?-A. Yes, sir. Q. Did you attend that election?-A. Yes, sir. Q. Did you act in any official capacity on the day of the election ?-A. Yes, sir. Q. What was that?-A. I, together with another gentleman for one of the political parties, had charge of the 15th, 16th, and 25th wards. That was the official capacity I was placed in by my party. Q. Did you vote at that election ?-A. Yes, sir. Q. What precinct?-A. The third precinct of the 16th ward. Q. Did you see the tickets used by the Democrats and Republicans, and National, or Greenback parties, on that day -A. I saw the tickets used by the Democratic party and the Republican party, but I could not swear that I paid any attention to the National ticket. Q. I call your attention to the ticket marked Exhibit B, to the deposition of Mr. DeVay, and headed Republican ticket, and I will ask you if that was the ticket used by the Republicans on that day.-A. Yes, sir. Q. I call your attention to the ticket marked Exhibit C to Mr. DeVay's testimony, and ask you if that was the ticket used by the Democrats on that day.-A. Yes, sir. Q. Could you, on that day, at your precinct, distinguish the Republicau ticket from the Democratic ticket voted by the voters?-A Most decidedly. Q. Could those looking on at the polls, standing close to the chute and watching the vote, distinguish those tickets, if you know 1-A. That depends, in my judgment, on whether a man is accustomed to standing at polls and watching people as they vote. Q. How could you tell that Republican ticket from the Democratic?-A. By its thickness, and when folded it would certainly show the thickness; and the difference between it and the ticket of my party-the Democratic party. Q. What kind of material was that Republican ticket printed on?-A. I do not know, except I know it was thicker paper. I do not know anything about the material used. Q. You do not know what kind of material it is?-A. No, sir. Q. You are not an expert ?-A. No, sir. Q. From your knowledge, not as an expert, but as a business man, could you say what kind of paper that is on-what material it is?-A. Is the answer to that to be given from my own individual knowledge, or by what I have learned? Q. Your knowledge is what you have learned; what you know and what you think about it. (Objected to as incompetent.) Q. What would you call it? (Objected to as immaterial and incompetent.) A. I would call it thick paper of some kind, but as to what it is, I do not know. Q. Did you ever know tickets to be printed on material of that kind before? (Objected to as immaterial and incompetent ) A. No, sir; I have not in my connection with the tickets. Q. What effect did the use of that ticket at your precinct have upon the secrecy of the ballot? (Objected to as immaterial and incompetent, and a conclusion of law.) A. It had this effect generally, that a man that came there and desired to vote-to my personal knowledge-was handed a different ticket, and when he walked up to the chute the challenger on the opposite side there and myself saw the ticket that was in his hand, and knowing, as any person that knows anything about it by participating in it at all can tell, that it was not the ticket that was handed to him, and he challenged the vote and the challenge was held good by the board, and we did not have people to swear in the vote, and we lost several votes. Q. I understood you to say that the challengers conld tell what ticket a man was voting when he came up to vote with the Republican ticket in his hand or with the Democratic ticket in his hand?-A. Yes, sir; I could. Q. How could they distinguish those tickets? How could they tell one from the other -A. By the thickness of the ticket. The ticket that my party voted was thinner, and when folded together would certainly lay flat; but a man coming up and handing a ticket, whether he grasps it very tight or not, at the end of the ticket, the other end would show the thickness of it. [Illustrating with the Republican ticket.] Q. You mean the Republican ticket? A. Yes, sir; that would spring out. This ticket I remember distinctly, because I had occasion to. I know from my personal knowledge, and would state on oath, that the challengers on the other side of the chute positively knew what men were voting, and so did I myself. Q. You mean the Republicans on the opposite side?-A. Yes, sir. Q. You are a Democrat?-A. Yes, sir; I am a Democrat. Q. Have you ever held any official position in this city?-A. Yes, sir. Q. What?-A. Councilman from the 16th ward. Q. How long have you been a member of the council?-A. Since May, 1879. Q. Are you a member elect of the new, incoming council?-A. Yes, sir. Cross-examination by Mr. PEELLE: Q. You are a Democrat?-A. Yes, sir. Q. And always have been a Democrat, if I remember rightly ?-A. Yes, sir; I have never been anything else but a Democrat. Q. Did you have any bet on the result of the Congressional election last fall?-A. Not a bet. 'Q. None whatever?-A. None whatever. Q. Either of your own money or of anybody else's?-A. No, sir. I understand your question to apply to the result of the Congressional election? Q. Yes, sir; that is what I mean.-A. None at all. Q. You say you had some connection with the 15th, 16th, and 25th wards last November.-A. Yes, sir. Q. And your party designated you and some one else to look after these wards?— A. Yes, sir. Q. Were you around to the different wards that day?-A. Yes, sir. Q. You were not challenging at a precinct regularly?—A. I did, but not regularly. Q. How long were you at a precinct at any one time?-A. Challenging? H. Mis. 23- -8 Q. Yes, sir.-A. I challenged at one precinct for an hour and a half to relieve the other challenger. Q. You have been a looker-on and observer of elections for a good many years?—A. Yes, sir. Q. You have been a challenger for your party before?—A. Yes, sir. Q. The 16th ward is strongly Democratic ?-A. Yes, sir. Q. And the 15th and 25th -A. Yes, sir. Q. Three of the strongest Democratic wards in the city ?—A. Three of the strongest. Q. Are they the three strongest ?-A. They are not the three strongest now. Q. On the last Congressional election ?-A. On the last Congressional election the strongest Democratic ward was the 23d. Q. And the 15th, 16th, and 25th were the next?-A. About in that ratio. I could not say from my memory now. Q. Do you know the names of those persons that you gave that had been given tickets and had their votes challenged?-A. Yes, sir. Q. Who were they?-A. Crowley was one. Q. Who is he?-A. He is a resident of the 25th ward. Q. What is his first name?-A. Jack. Q. What are his politics ?-A. I think Democratic. Q. What did you mean to have understood a while ago when you spoke about knowing of your own personal knowledge that men had been given one kind of a ticket and had gone to the polls and been challenged?-A. Mr. Crowley came from the jail with a Republican ticket in his hand and he came to me in the 25th ward and threw the ticket upon the ground and said, "Give me a ticket,” and he went in the chute and I was rather alongside of the chute, and the Republican policeman, Webb Robinson, challenged him. Q. Challenged his vote?-A. Yes, sir. Q. Now, you were giving that testimony as a reason why you could tell one ticket from another at that precinct-A. Not at all. I have other places where I knew I could tell that ticket from the other. Q. How did you tell that Republican ticket from the Democratic on that day?—A. In the piece of stiff paper. I don't know what it is, but grasped, as it generally is grasped by the voter, it will fly open, and take a piece of thin paper and fold it together and it will remain folded. Q. It will remain folded?-A. In the vast majority of cases. Q. Do you know of anybody who was misled or deceived in voting at that election in consequence of the Republican ticket being on the kind of paper it was?—A. No, sir; I cannot say that I do know that. Q. Do you know of anybody who would have voted differently had the Republican ticket been on the same kind of paper that the Democratic ticket was printed on ?— A. Any number of them. Q. Give the names of them.-A. Jack Crowley, in the 2nd precinct 25th ward. Q. You say he was a Democrat?-A. Yes, sir. Q. And he would have voted differently if the Republican ticket had been on the same material that the Democratic ticket was printed on?-A. Yes, sir. Q. Why?-A. Because he would have got his Democratic vote in and would not have been challenged by the police officers. Q. Who is some other one that would have voted differently if the Republican ticket had been upon the same kind of paper?-A. Porter. Q. What is the first name?-A. Jack. Q. What are his politics?-A. Republican. Q. You say that Jack Porter would have voted the Democratic ticket if the Republican ticket had not been on that kind of paper?-A. Yes, sir. Q. Where does Porter live?-A. I cannot tell you where he lives now. I know he lived in the 2nd precinct of the 25th ward at that time; he was a citizen there, and came out of jail with the balance of them, and the Republican ticket was given to him over there in the jail. Q. How do you know?-A. By his own testimony; by his own statement. Q. Who was present?-A. I do not know. I could give a list of names. Costello and Webb Robinson, the Republican police officer which challenged, were present. I do not know whether he heard it or not. He made the statement publicly, in the middle of the street, on Ray street, and Cronyn, that was on my side of the house. I can refresh my memory if you want to examine me at some future time. There was a whole host of people there. Q. That is all you can recollect?-A. Carson and a whole crowd of people were there. Q. He made that statement publicly there; that he had been given a Republican ticket and came down there to vote?-A. Yes, sir; and he did not want to vote it, and I gave him a Democratic ticket and gave Porter a Democratic ticket. I will volunteer that testimony. Q. Were they challenged?-A. Certainly they were. Q. Did they get their votes in?-A. Not to my knowledge. They were denied the privilege of voting. Q. Those men that had Republican tickets given them, that came down there to vote, did not get to vote?-A. No, sir. Q. They were challenged by the Republicans?—A. Yes, sir; challenged by the Republican police officers. Q. You say one of them was a Republican?-A. Yes, sir. Porter, at least, claimed to be a Republican, but he would be damned if he was going to vote the Republican ticket, and he took the Democratic ticket and walked up to the chute and was looking at it and trying to vote it. That is the remark he made. Q. Do you know whether they were residents of that precinct or not?-A. Yes, sir. Q. Do you know whether they had been 60 days?-A. They were residents, but the challenger, the Republican police officer, claimed that their residence was in the jail, when, to my personal knowledge, the parents of these parties lived in that precinct. Q. The Republican police officers claimed that their residence, was in the jail and they had no right to vote at that precinct?-A. Yes, sir. Question by Mr. WILSON: Q. Do you know how those gentlemen came to be there? You say the Republican police officer challenged them on the ground that their residence was in the jail and they had no right to vote at that precinct?-A. They both got in for some misdemeanor, and they were let out of jail with the Republican ticket in their hands to go down there and vote, and when they presented the Democratic ticket in place of it they were challenged. JAS. T. DOWLING. By agreement of both parties, the further taking of these depositions was adjourned until Tuesday, October 16, 1883, at 2 p. m. Parties met pursuant to adjournment. TURSDAY, October 16, 1883. JOHN W. FULTZ, being first duly sworn, testified as follows: Direct examination by Mr. WILSON, att'y for Mr. English: Q. Your name, age, and residence.-A. My name is John W. Fultz; I am 39 years of age on the 31st of October; I live in this city, at No. 72 Church street. Q. How long have you lived in Indiana?-A. All my life; I was born here. Q. If you ever held any official position you can say so.—A. I have; I am holding one at present; councilman from the 25th ward. Q. Were you in this city at the election held November 7th, 1882, for membership in Congress from this district and other offices?-A. I was; yes, sir. Q. Did you attend that election ?-A. I did; yes, sir. Q. Did you act in any official capacity on that day?-A. I was around the polls all day, and the official capacity that I acted in was after the election was over; I went to the third precinct in the 25th ward to see the count. Q. You call that person the watcher? I believe that is the name.-A. Yes, sir; I suppose so. Q. Did you vote at that election ?-A. Yes, sir. Q. What precinct?-A. The third precinct of the 25th ward, the one I live in. Q. Did you see the ticket voted in that precinct by the Democrats, Republicans, and Greenbackers or Nationals?-A. I remember distinctly of seeing the Republican and Democratic tickets, but if there was a Greenback ticket on that day in our ward I failed to see it. I do not think there was one in our precinct; there might possibly have been; I do not think there was; if there was I don't recollect of seeing it. Q. I call your attention to the ticket marked Exhibit F to the deposition of Austin H. Brown; is that the ticket the Republicans used and voted there that day? -A. They had quite a number of tickets there that day [witness examined ticket]. Hold on a minute until I look over this; this looks like one of the tickets used; yes, sir, I should recognize that as one of the tickets. Q. I call your attention to the ticket marked Exhibit G to the deposition of Austin H. Brown, and I will ask you if that was the ticket used by the Democrats on that day?—A. Yes, sir; I think it was. I know more about this ticket than I do the other, for I handled some of these. Q. You say you do not recollect the National ticket?-A. I could not say that I do. I don't remember that I saw one. They may have been there in the precinct, but I did not see them. Q. Could you distinguish that Republican ticket from the Democratic ticket voted at that precinct at that election on that day, both tickets being folded ? |