Mr. WOODRUM. And also some postal stations in some of the larger cities.

Admiral PEOPLES. Yes, sir.

Mr. WOODRUM. They are allocated from those original lists, and the buildings on those original lists are determined to be needed because of the interest of the Service and because of the economical considerations in connection with rents, and so forth.

Admiral PEOPLES. Exactly so. They are eligible under the terms of the law.

Mr. WOODRUM. It is not a question of allocating a building just to please some Congressman or some constituent; it is a question of meeting the real needs of the country.

Admiral PEOPLES. Exactly.

DISTRICTS INELIGIBLE FOR PUBLIC BUILDINGS UNDER POSTAL RECEIPT

LIMITATION

Mr. LUDLOW. Have you any districts that are not eligible under the limitation of $10,000 receipts?

Admiral PEOPLES. There are a few.

Mr. WOODRUM. About how many?
Mr. MARTIN. There were 32 districts.

Mr. LUDLOW. In the entire United States?
Mr. MARTIN. Yes, sir.

Mr. PURDUM. I will say this in that connection. There are some congressional districts in the United States that have a great number of eligible projects under the law. Some districts have anywhere from 7 to 16 or more. I believe there is one congressional district in the United States which has in it no great big cities, but where the total postal receipts of those places that are in leased or rented quarters are greater than the total postal receipts in some of the States of this Nation, and to provide Federal buildings in some of those districts would take a number of years.

Admiral PEOPLES. That has been the policy during the preceding 3 years, one project to a district, regardless of the number of eligible projects in the district.

Mr. LUDLOW. Is it not true that some of the 32 districts have been held ineligible because of depression receipts?

Mr. MARTIN. That is true, because any list you have today may be changed a month or 2 months from now.

Mr. LUDLOW. On what year did you base your estimate?

Mr. MARTIN. On the calendar year 1936. It has to be as late as we can possibly get it. If you use the fiscal year there will be quite a few post offices come in as eligibles.

Mr. LUDLOW. Is it not true that in the calendar year 1937 some of the 32 will become eligible?

Admiral PEOPLES. It is very probable, because Mr. Purdum advised us this morning that in 1937 the postal receipts of the preceding quarter of this calendar year already will exceed in volume any year in the history of the country.

Mr. LUDLOW. Are these 32 largely in the sparsely settled sections of the country?

Mr. MARTIN. No, they are scattered all over the country. There are quite a few places where the receipts are lacking only about a hundred dollars of the required $10,000, which we expect will show an increase in the next year, placing them above the limit of $10,000.

STATEMENT SHOWING NUMBER AND LIMIT OF COST OF AUTHORIZED AND UNAUTHORIZED PROJECTS

Mr. WOODRUM. I have the list which you have shown me in House Report 1879, revised to May 17, 1937, which is a summary of this report that you have already put in the record.

Mr. MARTIN. Yes, sir.

Mr. WOODRUM. It is a summary of projects authorized under the provisions of the acts approved June 19, 1934, August 12, 1935, and June 22, 1936; and remaining projects eligible for consideration, the statement being by States, showing the total amount authorized, the number of projects authorized, the unauthorized amount and number, and the amount and number of increases.

Admiral PEOPLES. Yes, sir.

Mr. WOODRUM. It shows a total of 1,077 authorized, with a total limit of cost of $184,660,425.

Admiral PEOPLES. Yes, sir.

Mr. WOODRUM. And it shows a total of 1,806 eligible projects yet unauthorized and a total limit of cost of $201,596,000.

Admiral PEOPI ES. Yes, sir.

Mr. WOODRUM. With 40 projects carrying an increase in the limit of cost amounting to a total of $6,505,500.

Admiral PEOPLES. Yes, sir.

Mr. WOODRUM. Those are the ones we discussed a while ago.
Admiral PEOPLES. Yes, sir.

Mr. WOODRUM. So, as against this amount, made available for the future public building program, you have an eligible list of 1,806 projects with a total authorization of 201 million dollars plus. Admiral PEOPLES. Exactly.

(The statement above referred to is as follows:)

Summary of projects authorized under the provisions of the acts approved June 19, 1934, Aug. 12, 1935, and June 22, 1936, and remaining projects eligible for consideration [H. Rept. 1879, as revised May 17, 1937]

Summary of projects authorized under the provisions of the acts approved June 19, 1934, Aug. 12, 1935, and June 22, 1936, and remaining projects eligible for consideration-Continued

Mr. WOODRUM. Tell us more about the eligible projects. What has been done to determine the eligibility of a project? What is the routine it goes through before a project is put on the eligible list?

Admiral PEOPLES. That is made up of various sources, from requests of the communities for projects eligible under the law. Some are from chambers of commerce and some requests come in from Members of Congress, but the majority of the requests are submitted by the Post Office and other executive departments. The eligibility of a project is determined first before it goes on the eligible list.

Mr. WOODRUM. What do you do to determine whether it is eligible? What enters into that determination?

Admiral PEOPLES. Postal receipts, primarily.

Mr. MARTIN. With respect to places that have no Federal buildings, and with respect to places that have Federal buildings, it is the result of a personal survey made by post-office inspectors or by Post Office and Treasury Department inspectors jointly covering the condition of the present building, space congestion, the number of permanent activities in rented quarters, and the condition of the structure itself.

Mr. WOODRUM. Is it fair to say that all of these projects on the eligible list are projects that have had the most careful investigation and consideration to determine whether or not they are justified from the standpoint of the service and economy?

148745-37-6

Mr. MARTIN. That is strictly true as to places that now have Federal buildings. We have not covered individually every one of the projects that have no Federal buildings, but we have reports that give us complete information as to the population of the towns, the population served, the condition of the present quarters, the extent of the leases and the need for additional space.

Admiral PEOPLES. And the postal receipts are also considered. Mr. WOODRUM. Of these 1,800, how many can you say would be new construction, how many remodeled, or how many rebuilt, or at places where they have no buildings at all?

Mr. MARTIN. I would say less than 200 represent places where you would extend, or demolish, and rebuild.

In other words, between 1,500 and 1,600 are for communities without Federal buildings.

Mr. WOODRUM. How many of those are places where they have less than $10,000 receipts, but which have other governmental activities to make them eligible, out of the 1,600?

Mr. MARTIN. Where a post office is involved, none. By that I mean that this list has been confined to places that have postal receipts better than $10,000.

There are in the list, however, some border inspection stations that are not post offices, and appraisers' stores, buildings that are not post offices.

Mr. WOODRUM. How many of those would you say there are?
Mr. MARTIN. I would say less than 50.

Admiral Peoples. You will note, Mr. Chairman, that on that list there is noted both the character of the activity and also the character of the project, such as a post office, a post office and courthouse, and so forth. You will notice that all the way through the entire list.

Mr. WOODRUM. What is the rule on the question as to whether or not a community becomes eligible for a project after the beginning of the program? If this is a 1-year program, or whether it should be

years or 3 years, and you have your eligible list, and in the meantime a community becomes eligible because of increased postal receipts, can the Post Office Department or the Treasury Department, or either of them, submit such projects for consideration?

Admiral PEOPLES. They can. Usually that question depends on the facts in each particular case.

Mr. WOODRUM. I was looking at one of these exhibits and I noticed the number of projects. You have told us there would be approximately 85 projects under the suggested program for 1938. That is comparable to 364 in 1934, 348 in 1935, and 365 in 1936. Admiral PEOPLES. Yes, sir.

LANGUAGE TO COVER PROJECTED PROGRAM

Mr. WOODRUM. In an informal discussion which some of us held with you relative to this matter, we asked you to consider and submit for further consideration a program projected into two or three years which would more equitably divide up this construction work in the various congressional districts, and yet not require us to exceed the amount which the Budget has designated as being available for construction work in 1938.

Are you prepared to give us some observations on that? Admiral PEOPLES. Mr. Chairman, I believe that it is much better to handle an authorization for a period of 2 or 3 years rather than a very limited amount for 1 year, because the program could be better handled and better laid out and better understood. I think it would be a great deal more satisfactory, if that can be done. We have proposed some tentative legislation along that line.

Mr. WOODRUM. You handed me some suggested language which would carry that out, and I will ask you to insert that in your statement right at this point.

Admiral PEOPLES. I will do so.

(The matter referred to is as follows:)

[Omit part in black brackets and insert part printed in italic]

Emergency construction of public buildings outside the District of Columbia: For emergency construction of public-building projects outside of the District of Columbia (including the acquisition, where necessary, by purchase, condemnation, exchange, or otherwise of sites and additional land for such buildings; the demolition of old buildings where necessary and construction, remodeling, or extension of buildings; rental of temporary quarters during construction, including moving expenses; purchase of necessary equipment for buildings and such additional administrative expenses and salaries as may be required solely for the purpose of carrying out the provisions of this paragraph), there is hereby authorized to be appropriated a total amount of $70,000,000 for expenditure over a period of three years, toward which amount $23,000,000 is hereby appropriated; such projects, including the sites therefor, to be selected by the Secretary of the Treasury and the Postmaster General, acting jointly, from the public-building projects specified in [statement numbered 1 contained in] House Report Numbered 1879, Seventythird Congress, second session, as revised May 17, 1937, [and statement numbered 2 attached thereto], and the projects so selected shall be carried out within the respective estimates of proposed limits of cost specified in such revised report [statement numbered 1] and those hereafter fixed by the Secretary of the Treasury and the Postmaster General [for projects selected from statement numbered 2 and otherwise], except that the unobligated balance of the $2,500,000 fund established by the Emergency Appropriation Act, fiscal year 1935, approved June 19, 1934 (48 Stat. 1061), as augmented by the First Deficiency Appropriation Act, fiscal year 1936 (49 Stat., p. 1638), shall be availab'e for the augmentation of limits of cost of projects selected under the provisions of this Act in an amount not exceeding 10 per centum for any project in addition to a further sum of $500,000, which is hereby appropriated for the same purposes as specified in this and previous acts: Provided, That with a view to relieving country-wide unemployment the Secretary of the Treasury and the Postmaster General, in the selection of towns or cities in which buildings are to be constructed, shall endeavor to distribute the projects equitably throughout the country so far as may be consistent with the needs of the public service; and the Secretary of the Treasury and the Postmaster General may also select for prosecution under this appropriation such projects not included in such revised report as in their judgment are economically sound and advantageous to the public service: Provided further, That the Secretary of the Treasury is authorized to direct the preparation of all sketches, estimates, plans, and specifications (including supervision and inspection thereof), and to enter into all contracts necessary for carrying out the purposes of this paragraph, provided that the total obligations under the $70,000,000 program herein authorized shall not exceed $30,000,000 for the fiscal year 1988, but the Secretary of the Treasury is authorized to enter into contracts for any or all of the projects selected under this program in amounts not exceeding the respective estimated total costs of individual projects, and he is hereby authorized, when deemed by him desirable and advantageous, to employ, by contract or otherwise, the personal services of temporary professional, technical, or nontechnical employees to such extent as may be required to carry out the purposes of this paragraph, without reference to civil-service laws, rules, regulations, or to the Classification Act of 1923 as amended: Provided further, That in the acquisition of land or sites for the purposes of Federal public buildings and in the construction of such buildings provided for in this paragraph, the provisions of sections 305 and 306 of the Emergency Relief and Construction Act of 1932, as amended, shall apply.