approves, I plan to have them built by the Procurement Division of the Treasury; but I do feel that, in order to keep me thoroughly advised, it would be wise to have an engineer of my own in there. As to the other appointments that we would make at this time, there would probably be one or two stenographers, a file clerk, and office boy. That would be about all.

Mr. CANNON. You are following largely the set-up that has been used by similar commissions in charge of previous expositions. Mr. FLYNN. Yes, sir; that is correct.

Mr. TABER. Before the money is provided, will you have something in the way of an estimate of the cost of construction from the Procurement Division?

Mr. FLYNN. Yes, sir; but that will be rather difficult.

Mr. TABER. You could get that.

Mr. FLYNN. Here is the situation: There are two problems. There is one large problem that must be solved. There is an organization of 22 nations, which constitutes the Technical World's Fair Committee or something like that. Under their rules, this is a second grade World's Fair. Prior to my appointment, the President, at the request of the World's Fair Commission, asked 59 nations to exhibit at this fair, and said that the United States Government would provide 10,000 square feet of space for them. Of course, that is practically impossible at the present writing, because there is not enough money in this appropriation to take care of that situation. It will have to be decided by the Commission whether or not we will build any foreign buildings at all. We cannot very well give them a set-up until I get something definite from the Procurement Division as to what they can do.

In connection with the United States Building itself, the cost of that building, of course, would depend largely on its design, and we cannot very well agree on the design until we agree on the type of exhibit that we will have there. By that I mean there is no use building a building with rooms of this size, and then finding we ought to have larger sized rooms for the type of exhibit that we will put in there. So it is necessary, first, to really agree on those things, and it will be a matter of two or three months before we can finally go into the situation.

Mr. TABER. You will not be ready to spend a substantial amount before we meet here in January.

Mr. FLYNN. What I would like to do, if possible, would be to have the full appropriation made in the deficiency bill at this time, because this is July, and we should go forward in August, September, and October. If we can do it sooner than that, we will do it. Then, I plan after the procurement division has given me an estimate of what the building will cost, to ask the Commission to allocate to the Procurement Division the amount necessary to cover the construction. I do not know what expense will take place between now and January 1.

Mr. LUDLOW. When is it expected that the exposition will open? Mr. FLYNN. In 1939.

Mr. LUDLOW. On what date?

Mr. FLYNN. May 1.

Mr. SNYDER. Where will it be held?

Mr. FLYNN. In Queens.

Mr. SNYDER. Are you filling in some land there?

Mr. FLYNN. Yes, sir; the city of New York is spending millions of dollars filling in land. A surprising amount of the work has already been done. As I have said before, the Administration Building is already up, and the streets are laid out. They have moved trees in there. A great many of the participants who will put up buildings there have already started them.

Mr. SNYDER. It will be on two islands, with a neck between them, as I understand it.

Mr. FLYNN. There will be one island. It is the mainland and one island. They will bring in the water part of the fair.

Mr. SNYDER. How much has New York spent on it?

Mr. FLYNN. The World's Fair Corporation will spend approximately $50,000,000. The fair itself, when it is opened up, will represent an investment of $125,000,000. It is estimated, based on the returns from the Chicago Fair, that the return to the Federal Government in taxes will be approximately $63,000,000.

Mr. WOODRUM. As I understand it, you want $50,000 quick.
Mr. FLYNN. Yes, sir; in order to get started.

Mr. WOODRUM. Then you want the balance of the money in the deficiency bill.

Mr. FLYNN. I would like to have it in that bill.

Mr. WOODRUM. What we would like to know definitely is whether it is absolutely necessary to have the money before the first of January. Could you not get along with half now and the balance in January?

Mr. FLYNN. We have no disposition to get this money now, if it is not needed, but I am as completely at sea as you are as to what expenses may arise between now and the 1st of January.

Mr. WOODRUM. It is hardly conceivable that you will require all of it.

Mr. FLYNN. That may be, but I understand that the best way of handling this matter is to get the plans drawn, and allocate the amount of the cost to the Procurement Division.

Mr. WOODRUM. Do you have to allocate it all at once?

Mr. FLYNN. They advise me that it would be better to do that. Mr. WOODRUM. They cannot make a contract until you have the money.

Mr. FLYNN. That is true.

Mr. TABER. They will not be ready for it, will they?

Mr. FLYNN. Yes, sir; or I will be very much disappointed.

Mr. TABER. How much of the money expended for filling was

W. P. A. money?

Mr. FLYNN. I do not know.

Mr. TABER. Most of it is W. P. A. money, is it not?

Mr. FLYNN. I do not know.

Mr. TABER. I mean the money that the city has spent in filling in the ground?

Mr. FLYNN. I have no figures as to that.

Mr. WOODRUM. Did the Commission consider the question of whether they wanted the money now, or whether they could wait? Mr. FLYNN. Yes, sir; it was their opinion we should have it now. Mr. WOODRUM. It was their definite opinion that they should have it all now.

Mr. FLYNN. Yes, sir.

Mr. WOODRUM. Do you have any idea what the building will cost? Mr. FLYNN. I have no idea of that at all. In that building, we will have to pay all the expense of the exhibits, and we will have to pay the salaries of the departmental employees that they lend to us. We will have to pay the employees loaned to us by the departments. All of that will come out of the appropriation. The whole thing is in such a state of flux at the present time that it is very difficult to form a definite opinion as to that.

Mr. LUDLOW. Are you proceeding on the theory of not coming back to Congress for more money?

Mr. FLYNN. That is what I plan to do. I want, if possible, to avoid that, and I am almost certain that there will be no more money asked by myself or the Commission.

Mr. WOODRUM. That is, from the Federal Government.

Mr. FLYNN. Yes, sir.

Mr. BACON. This will be a permanent building, will it not?

Mr. FLYNN. Yes, sir.

Mr. BACON. The Federal Government will put up a permanent building.

Mr. FLYNN. Yes, sir.

Mr. LUDLOW. What will it be used for after the fair?

Mr. FLYNN. That is a problem-I do not know.

Mr. LUDLOW. What would it be suitable for?

Mr. FLYNN. I believe there will be so many substantial buildings there that it might be a more or less permanent exposition.

Mr. TABER. You think it will be a permanent exposition, and will run right along.

Mr. FLYNN. I have no way of figuring that out. Your guess is as good as mine on that.

Mr. LUDLOW. It could be used by the city of New York.
Mr. FLYNN. The city of New York might take it eventually.
Mr. CANNON. To what extent is New York State participating?
Mr. FLYNN. It is participating to the extent of $1,500,000.
Mr. CANNON. Their money will not be available now?

Mr. FLYNN. It was appropriated at the last session of the legislature. They have already made plans and broken ground for their buildings.

Mr. CANNON. The Federal Commission, then, is a little bit behind. Mr. FLYNN. Yes, sir; it is quite a good deal behind.

I would like to have a special resolution passed which would give us the means of starting to work immediately.

Mr. WOODRUM. We thank you for your statement.

NOTE. The following testimony held in connection with and the appropriation discussed herein carried in House Joint Resolution 454.

FRIDAY, JULY 23, 1937.

UNITED STATES GOLDEN GATE INTERNATIONAL EXPOSITION COMMISSION

STATEMENTS OF GEORGE CREEL, COMMISSIONER GENERAL, AND H. R. STUTSMAN, SPECIAL ASSISTANT TO COMMISSIONER GENERAL

EXPENSES OF FEDERAL PARTICIPATION IN SAN FRANCISCO, CALIF. WORLD'S FAIR

Mr. WOODRUM. We have before us an item in House Document No. 307 of $1,500,000:

For the purpose of carrying into effect the provisions of the public resolution entitled "Joint resolution providing for the participation of the United States in the World's Fair to be held by the San Francisco Bay Exposition, Inc., in the city of San Francisco during the year 1939", approved July 9, 1937, to remain available until the termination of the Commission.

Mr. Creel, we will be glad to hear your statement in regard to this item.

Mr. CREEL. Mr. Chairman and members of the committee, we have had a meeting of the Commission, which was organized this morning, consisting of the Secretary of the Interior, the Secretary of Agriculture, the Secretary of Commerce, the Secretary of Labor, Senator McAdoo, Senator McNary, Senator Pittman, Congressman Havenner, and Congressman Lea. The Secretary of Commerce was chosen to be chairman.

It was the determination of the Commission that we should ask for the entire amount, because, as Mr. Flynn explained in connection. with the New York Exposition, the Federal Government is behind the cities and States in the matter of the exposition itself.

We have built an island in the ocean, 1 mile long and a mile wide. It is on the left of Yerba Buena, going from San Francisco to Oakland. There is a causeway from Yerba Buena to the island. After the exposition is finished with the island, it will be used as an airport, owned and operated by the city of San Francisco, and with the Army and the Navy possessing certain rights that will make the island an integral part of the national defense. There are two great hangars already built which will be used for exhibit purposes, but they are real hangars. The Exposition Building, which will be a permanent building, will be used for the airport as an Administration Building. I think the W. P. A. contribution was $6,000,000, for building the island, and in that they used relief labor. The city contributed 20 percent, and the P. W. A. allotted 55 percent, while the State of California appropriated $5,000,000 outright as their contribution to the exposition. Also, $7,000,000 in cash has been raised from the citizens of San Francisco, so that this exposition, when finished, will be about a $45,000,000 proposition. While we will be able to make no such return to the Federal Government in the way of taxes as New York, we believe that the return will be $30,000,000.

With regard to the appropriation, we will be ready for the Procurenent Division to let the contract for the buildings before January 1. I have made a sort of break-down here of the appropriations, as near as I could figure it out on the basis of past expositions. The basis was one-third for administration, one-third for exhibits, and one-third for the buildings, but I have altered that somewhat by setting up $100,000 reserve for contingencies; providing $750,000 for exhibits, instead of $500,000, allocating only $300,000 for administration, instead of $500,000, and $350,000 for buildings. We will start with a skeleton organization. We will have one assistant commissioner, but I will not appoint him for several months. The Department of Commerce has given me an office, and Mr. Stutsman will be assigned to me as administrative assistant.

Mr. WOODRUM. Your headquarters would be in Washington.

Mr. CREEL. At present; yes, sir. We will not set up headquarters at San Francisco.

Mr. LUDLOW. How much administrative personnel will you have? Mr. CREEL. For the first 6 months we will have nobody except Mr. Stutsman and a stenographer. We will take pride in keeping administrative expenses down.

Mr. TABER. How soon do you expect to start with the buildings? Mr. CREEL. Some time in Ŏctober.

Mr. TABER. For about how much?

Mr. CREEL. We figure on $350,000 for buildings.

Mr. TABER. You would not spend much money outside of that or you would not require the appropriation of much money outside of that until after the first of the year.

Mr. CREEL. I suppose not, except for the exhibits of the various Departments. They have an exhibit man in each Department. Suggestions have been asked as to what funds are required for exhibits from the Departments or how much they will cost. When those estimates are assembled, we will prepare a Budget. This should be ready by September 1.

Mr. WOODRUM. When will the exposition open?

Mr. CREEL. February 1, 1939.

Mr. LUDLOW. What will be the admission charge?

Mr. CREEL. We have not decided that. However, it will be nominal.

Mr. LUDLOW. You are authorized under the statute to receive contributions: Have any been offered?

Mr. CREEL. $7,000,000 has been subscribed by citizens of San Francisco. Of course, if we make money, they will get it back, but if we do not, they will not get it back. The State has made a contribution of $5,000,000. That makes $12,000,000 that we regard as a gift.

Mr. WOODRUM. Mr. Stutsman, do you wish to make a statement? Mr. STUTSMAN. I think not, except possibly to offer a suggestion as to the availability of the money. I have had past experience with the Chicago, Dallas, and Great Lakes Expositions, as the contact officer of the Department of Commerce. Our great difficulty in each case has been to know whether we will have any money, and what amount. We have had to wait until too close to the opening of the exposition to make contracts, and we could not get the bids in time. Consequently, we had to make poor exhibits, or pay more for them.