Mr. GARDNER. I would say that would be a reasonable estimate of it. It will require approximately $35,000 to establish a hatchery, and it will require around $6,000 or $7,000 for the annual operating expenses of each hatchery that is established.

PRESENT SALMON YIELD

Mr. TABER. You say there are only two hundred thousand cases produced there now.

Mr. GARDNER. Approximately.

Mr. TABER. That runs to how much money?

Mr. GARDNER. It would run close to $1,200,000.

Mr. TABER. What would you estimate the catch might be, and the value of it, after this Commission has been in operation for a year or two?

Mr. GARDNER. I would say that if the Commission is successful in increasing the yield, it will be considerable. In other words, if the fishery is restored to its former abundance, it will be an industry yiedling $2,500,000 or $3,000,000.

ACCOMPLISHMENTS OF HALIBUT COMMISSION

Mr. TABER. What has been the effect on the halibut industry? Mr. GARDNER. The halibut commission has been an outstanding

success.

Mr. TABER. With what expenditure?

Mr. GARDNER. $25,000 per annum for the past several years. At the time the commission was created, the halibut fisheries were very much depleted. The commission has by control and regulation of the fishing, the establihsment of closed seasons, and the limiting of the catch to what might be safely taken without jeopardizing the fisheries, built up that fishery.

Mr. TABER. What is the total annual catch now, as compared with the catch of 10 years ago?

Mr. GARDNER. The catch is now limited to 46,000,000 pounds, and the condition of the banks has steadily improved even with that limitation, and it is expected that it will be only a short time until the commission raises that limit.

Mr. LUDLOW. The tendency is to build up stocks beyond the market requirements, is it not?

Mr. GARDNER. There is a demand for all the halibut that has been produced.

Mr. TABER. Was there not a surplus last winter?

Mr. GARDNER. No, sir; the surplus you spoke of a few moments ago was primarily of fish other than halibut.

Mr. LUDLOW. There was a big surplus.

Mr. GARDNER. I recall that $1,000,000 was appropriated to divert surplus fish from the normal channels of trade, but there were several things responsible for that. One was the unusually open winter. The fishermen were on the fishing banks throughout the winter, with very little interruption. Furthermore, the floods in the Mississippi Valley, which is one of the most important consuming sections of fish products, disrupted the market.

Mr. LUDLOW. You do not think that the salmon situation is comparable to that.

Mr. GARDNER. I cannot think so.

Mr. WOODRUM. Will this board have regulatory powers? Mr. GARDNER. It will not have, under the reservations of the Senate, for a period of 8 years. It may not require 8 years of investigation before the Commission will be enabled to reach definite conclusions as to what should be done in the way of regulating the fisheries, controlling the catch, and establishing closed seasons, and so forth.

Mr. WOODRUM. Do you think they will try to get around the reservations or would they seek some amendment of it?

Mr. GARDNER. I think that will be the form it will take. They will not try to circumvent the purpose of the reservations at all. I might say in connection with the halibut treaty, which was ratified in 1923, that it was supplanted by a new convention in 1930, and the 1930 convention was supplanted by a new convention which was signed on January 24, 1937.

Mr. WOODRUM. This convention requires the Commission to come back and report to Congress, before making regulatory provisions. Mr. GARDNER. Yes, sir. That accounts for the nominal estimate of the expense of the Commission, because, under the reservations, its 'functions, for the most part, will be restricted to scientific investigations.

WEDNESDAY, AUGUST 4, 1937.

SALARIES OF AMBASSADORS AND MINISTERS

STATEMENT OF C. B. HOSMER, BUDGET OFFICER, DEPARTMENT OF STATE

APPOINTMENT OF A MINISTER TO LITHUANIA

Mr. WOODRUM. You have, in House Document No. 325, an item of $9,166.67, for an additional amount for salaries of ambassadors and ministers, fiscal year 1938, for the salary of an envoy extraordinary and minister plenipotentiary to Lithuania, at $10,000 per annum.

Mr. HOSMER. Mr. Chairman, for quite a few years, and, in fact, ever since our recognition of the Baltic Republics following the World War, we have maintained one minister at Riga, Latvia, and this minister has been accredited, also, to the Republics of Lithuania and Estonia. That was done at the time for reasons of economy, because it was not very well known then what the importance of our relations with these Baltic Republics would prove to be. As time has gone on, it has become increasingly apparent that our relations, particularly with Lithuania, are such that a mission with a separate minister is needed there to handle the volume of work at Kaunas, the capital of Lithuania.

The President has therefore sent to the Senate, and there is now pending there for confirmation, the nomination of a minister to Lativa and Estonia, which will remain as one mission, and also a nomination for a separate minister for Lithuania. It has been found that one minister cannot carry the volume of work for the three countries, and that it is impracticable for him to go to Kaunas from Riga, which is his official residence, as frequently as is necessary to do this work on the ground and do it effectively and efficiently.

Mr. TABER. How far apart are those places.

Mr. HOSMER. It is about a day's journey. It takes a day to go and a day to come back.

Mr. TABER. How far is it?

Mr. HOSMER. I do not know. I think between two and three hundred miles.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. Is it about a 4 or 5 hours' trip?

Mr. HOSMER. Yes, sir; at least that. It takes the minister just about a day's time to go and a day's time to come back.

Mr. WOODRUM. This confirmation has not yet been made by the Senate.

Mr. HOSMER. No, sir; it is before the Senate. It may be reported out of the Foreign Relations Committee today. I will, of course, be very glad to take it upon myself to notify the committee immediately upon the confirmation of the appointment, if you wish me to follow it up for you.

Mr. TABER. How much staff do you have already stationed in these three countries?

Mr. HOSMER. In Latvia we have a minister, three secretaries, and a consular officer.

Mr. TABER. You have that staff in Latvia?

Mr. HOSMER. Yes, sir; at Riga.

Mr. TABER. You mentioned three secretaries and a consular officer. Mr. HOSMER. As a matter of fact Riga is what we call a combined office and all the officers assigned there are commissioned to serve in both diplomatic and consular capacities. I do not have before me the list showing the exact number of officers there at this time.

Mr. TABER. What staff do you have in the other capitals?

Mr. HOSMER. At Kaunas we have a Foreign Service officer who acts in the dual capacity of secretary and consul. In the absence of the minister, which is most of the time under the present arrangement, he becomes chargé d'affaires.

Mr. TABER. He is all alone.

Mr. HOSMER. No, sir; he has a vice consul and third secretary, that is, one officer in this dual capacity.

Mr. TABER. What do you have at the other places?

Mr. HOSMER. At Tallinn, the capital of Estonia, we have practically the same staff as at Kaunas.

Mr. TABER. You will have one more minister.

Mr. HOSMER. Yes, sir; at Kaunas, the capital of Lithuania.

Mr. SNYDER. What is the population of Lithuania?

Mr. HOSMER. The population of Lithuania is about two and onehalf million. The population of Kaunas, the capital, is a little under 100,000.

Mr. SNYDER. What is the population of the three countries, taken together?

Mr. HOSMER. About six million.

Mr. TABER. You already have 11 in your staff in Estonia, Lithuania, and Latvia, exclusive of the military attaché who is there accredited to the three countries. Now, is not that a tremendous set-up, of seven or eight, in Latvia, and a tremendous set-up of four people, outside of the minister, in Lithuania? It would seem that you ought to be able with that staff of people to take care of this whole situation, without asking for this additional appropriation.

Mr. HOSMER. I do not think that any important staff readjustments are considered warranted by reason of this change.

Mr. TABER. Why could we not reduce this amount, or transfer $10,000 from the salaries of the consuls and secretaries in order to provide a salary for this minister? Why would not that meet the situation? It seems to me that you should be able to get rid of two or three of your staff, and transfer the salaries saved to this purpose. Mr. HOSMER. I believe these men are all needed.

Mr. WOODRUM. This appointment of minister carries a certain salary.

Mr. HOSMER. Yes, sir; a salary of $10,000 a year.

Mr. WOODRUM. Upon confirmation by the Senate, the salary would be $10,000 per annum.

Mr. HOSMER. Yes, sir.

Mr. TABER. It appears that you have two second secretaries and two third secretaries.

Mr. HOSMER. That is in Latvia. Those officers are also required to function as consular officers. They have a very heavy immigration work to handle there, which is one reason for the size of the staff in Latvia. The question of emigration from the component parts of the former Russian Empire is a difficult one, and it is always necessary to maintain a sufficient staff to take care of it. A substantial part of their work is functioning as consular officers rather than in a diplomatic capacity.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. Following up Mr. Taber's suggestion, your would not want to have ministers with these large staffs of employees in countries of that size.

Mr. HOSMER. No, sir; but I do not know whether any reduction in the staff at Riga is practicable. Much of the staff at Riga is engaged in consular work, particularly immigration-control work. There is also considerable diplomatic work. Of course, the work that is being done by the staff at Riga, with the exception of that which falls upon the shoulders of the minister himself, has no relation to the volume of necessary work in Lithuania. In Riga, they are doing none of the work which pertains to the mission in Lithuania; but the work needed in Lithuania cannot be effectively done without a resident minister.

Mr. TABER. I think you should be able to find a place where we could transfer this money, instead of having to appropriate more funds..

WEDNESDAY, AUGUST 4, 1937.

SEVENTH WORLD'S POULTRY CONGRESS AND EXPOSITION

STATEMENTS OF J. C. HOLMES, ACTING CHIEF, DIVISION OF INTERNATIONAL CONFERENCES, STATE DEPARTMENT, C. W. WARBURTON, DIRECTOR OF EXTENSION WORK, AND W. D. TERMOHLEN, CHIEF OF POULTRY SECTION, AGRICULTURAL ADJUSTMENT ADMINISTRATION, DEPARTMENT OF AGRICUL

TURE

Mr. WOODRUM. We have an estimate in Document No. 331 for the Seventh World's Poultry Congress and Exposition as follows [reading]: For the expenses of participation by the Government of the United States in the Seventh World's Poultry Congress and Exposition, to be held in the United

States in 1939, as authorized by and in accordance with the public resolution of July 30, 1937, to remain available until December 31, 1939, $100,000.

Dr. Warburton, will you tell us something about this item.

Mr. HOLMES. Perhaps I might make one explanation before Dr. Warburton proceeds to elaborate on it.

At the last session of Congress there was passed Public Resolution No. 113, which was approved by the President on June 20, 1936, authorizing and requesting the President to extend to the World's Poultry Science Association an invitation to hold the Seventh World's Poultry Congress in the United States in 1939, and to extend an invitation to foreign governments to participate in and be represented by delegates and exhibits in such congress.

Pursuant to that resolution, an invitation was extended at the Sixth World's Poultry Congress which met at Leipzig, Germany, in July of last year. Following that, the Department of Agriculture submitted an authorizing bill, to authorize the appropriation of money in the amount of $100,000 to pay the expense of conducting this congress in 1939. That bill was referred to the Committee on Foreign Affairs of the House, and they held extensive hearings on it, which have been published. I have a copy of the hearings here, so you may refer to them. The committee went into the matter very carefully, and decided that, since this was an international conference, in the strict sense of the word, even though in its practical aspects it applied to poultry, or to the science of improving poultry and all those related subjects, they would rather have the matter handled by the State Department and the money authorized to be appropriated expended under the supervision of the Secretary of State. Therefore, they amended the bill, as submitted by the President in his message, placing the whole thing under the Department of State instead of the Department of Agriculture. That bill, as amended, was then passed by the House, and was subsequently passed by the Senate. It was approved by the President very recently, on July 30. We then submitted the estimate, with a breakdown, to the Bureau of the Budget, where it was approved, and it now comes before you.

I wanted to tell you the history of the bill so you could see how it gets here.

Mr. SNYDER. Where is the congress to be held?

Mr. HOLMES. The present plan is to hold the opening session in Washington, and then to move the congress to Cleveland, the reason for that being that in conjunction with the scientific sessions of the congress, there is always an exposition, which, judging from past congresses, will be a very large one. There is no place in Washington where this exposition could be held. Therefore, there has been formed two committees, one appointed by the poultry industry and one by the Federal Government from representatives of the interested departments. Those committees working together as a sort of joint committee have agreed that the exposition and main sessions of the congress will be held at Cleveland, because of the facilities there.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. Why do you need the money now, when the congress will not be held until 1939?

Mr. HOLMES. There is considerable preparatory work that is necessary. There is a great deal of work to be done, of course, in organizing and arranging for the appearance of qualified scientists on various phases of the poultry industry, and the preparation and printing of papers, and so forth."