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The transportation item is transportation for 75 men, members of the band, at $54.12 each, round trip, from Washington to Madison, Wis., and return, $4,059.

The Pullman transportation calls for three Pullman cars at $250 per car, round trip. That plan of using three cars is cheaper than giving each man a berth, according to the rates. The cost, if we gave each man a berth to Chicago and return, and then a chair from Chicago on to Madison, would be $841.10, and by taking three cars and getting the car rate, which is a commercial rate, we can get the Pullman accommodations for $750, round trip, and that saves the transfer in Chicago and moving of the band instruments and things of that kind. So it is not only cheaper, but the better way to handle it.

Mr. WOODRUM. It saves about a hundred dollars?

General MATTHEWS. It saves about a hundred dollars.

Mr. WOODRUM. And helps to balance the Budget to some extent. General MATTHEWS. Yes, sir; to that extent.

The next item is subsistence and lodging for the band from 4:40 p. m. September 4, the time of departure, until 5:10 p. m., September 11, the hour of return, $2,400. That item is computed on the basis of $5 per day, as contemplated in the act.

Then we have an item of $291 for emergency purposes, delay en route necessitating extra subsistence.

That brings the total to $7,500.

such as

Mr. LUDLOW. Do you know about how many precedents there are for this?

General MATTHEWS. There are a great many. For instance, recently the band went to Jackson, Miss., for the reunion of the Confederate veterans.

Mr. LUDLOW. You mean precedents where the Government has paid all expenses?

General MATTHEWS. Yes, sir; we have a great number of precedents. Mr. WOODRUM. Those are about the only instances where they have gone out-to these encampments?

General MATTHEWS. Yes, recently. They went down to the Dallas Fair; but the Grand Army encampments and the reunions of the confederate veterans are the principal ones. Mr. WOODRUM. Thank you, General.

WEDNESDAY, AUGUST 4, 1937.

DEPARTMENT OF STATE

INTERNATIONAL INSTITUTE OF AGRICULTURE, ROME, ITALY

STATEMENT OF J. C. HOLMES, ACTING CHIEF, DIVISION OF INTERNATIONAL CONFERENCES, AND THEODORE C. ACHILLES, EUROPEAN DIVISION, STATE DEPARTMENT

EXPENSES OF DELEGATES

Mr. WOODRUM. We have an item of $4,000 in House Document No. 183 for the International Institute of Agriculture at Rome, Italy, covering its general assembly. Will you explain this item, Mr. Holmes?

Mr. HOLMES. Yes, sir; that item was presented before, and at that time we discussed it. This is an estimate for an appropriation in the amount of $4,000 to pay the expenses of delegates who will attend the meetings of the general assembly of the International Institute of Agriculture. Heretofore, the expenses of these delegates have been paid by the Department of Agriculture. The Department of Agriculture was of the opinion that, since this was an international body, or an international conference, the fund for its support should be carried in the appropriation bill for the State Department, and we agreed to that. We presented an estimate for it, but the committee thought that it would be better to let it go over to the regular supply bill next year. In the meantime, we learned that the meeting was to be convened in May, and, therefore, the first of July, when the regular appropriation bill takes effect, will be too late. That is the reason for bringing it up again.

Mr. WOODRUM. If you have the money by May, you will have time enough.

Mr. HOLMES. Yes, sir, we will have to do the preliminary work. Mr. WOODRUM. Did we go into the matter at the time of the former hearing?

Mr. HOLMES. Yes, sir.

Mr. WOODRUM. Where will we find that?

Mr. HOLMES. At page 245 of the hearings on the second deficiency bill for 1937.

Mr. HOSMER. At that time, we did not present detailed explanation of the work of the institute, and we have Mr. Achilles present so that the committee may ask any questions they may care to about the work of the institute.

Mr. WOODRUM. All right, Mr. Achilles.

Mr. ACHILLES. The general purpose of the institute itself is to prepare and supply statistical material on agricultural conditions all over the world. It is of distinct value to the Department of Agriculture in this country. They make detailed studies of crop situations and of marketing situations; also of soil problems and of different improvements in agricultural methods. The Department of Agriculture claims that it would have to maintain a large staff abroad permanently in order to obtain the statistical information furnished by the institute. There have been some questions from time to time as to the work and investigations that were being conducted by the institute, and in 1926, I believe, we refused to participate in the work of the institute because we did not believe that it was being properly run. It was felt that it was being used for political purposes. It was far behind in getting out its material, and we thought that it was not worth while to continue our collaboration with it. We sent a man to Rome in 1930 to see if he could clear up that situation, and he succeeded in doing so. There have been personnel changes in the institute and a general speeding up of its work. Since that time, we feel that it is being run in a manner that is quite satisfactory to American agricul

ture.

Mr. LUDLOW. I do not know that this is important, but since it is so closely and almost exclusively integrated with agriculture, why should not this estimate be submitted by the Department of Agriculture rather than by the Department of State? Why was it transferred to the Department of State?

Mr. ACHILLES. It was an international organization, and the annual contribution and the expenses of the American member of the permanent committee are carried in our budget.

Mr. WOODRUM. It was about $18,000, I think.

Mr. ACHILLES. The annual contribution is about $37,000, the salary and office expenses of the American member of the permanent committee is about $12,000.

Mr. LUDLOW. Is he a State Department employee?

Mr. ACHILLES. No, sir; he is an employee of the Department of Agriculture, but we pay him.

Mr. WOODRUM. All of it comes out of the Federal Treasury?
Mr. ACHILLES. Yes, sir.

Mr. WOODRUM. How many delegates do you have?

Mr. ACHILLES. We figure on sending four from this country and two from other places in Europe. There is also the man who is permanently stationed at Rome, making seven representatives.

Mr. WOODRUM. This is to pay the expenses of the delegates.
Mr. ACHILLES. Yes, sir.

WEDNESDAY, AUGUST 4, 1937.

TELECOMMUNICATION CONFERENCE, CAIRO, EGYPT

STATEMENTS OF J. C. HOLMES, ACTING CHIEF, DIVISION OF INTERNATIONAL CONFERENCES, DEPARTMENT OF STATE; CHARLES HOSMER, BUDGET OFFICER; GERALD C. GROSS, CHIEF, INTERNATIONAL SECTION, FEDERAL COMMUNICATIONS COMMISSION

ADDITIONAL AMOUNT NECESSARY

Mr. WOODRUM. We have in House Document No. 312, on page 3, an item for an additional amount for Telecommunication Conference, Cairo, Egypt, 1937 and 1938, $55,000.

Mr. Holmes, would you make a statement to us on this item? As I understand it, you have $45,000 in the regular bill for this purpose. Mr. HOLMES. Yes, sir; that is correct.

Mr. WOODRUM. Your original budget request was $49,000?

Mr. HOLMES. Yes, sir. The original request was for $49,000 based at that time on participation only in one conference; that is the radio conference, which will take place in Cairo beginning about the 1st of February, next year.

That amount of $49,000 was reduced to $45,000 in the House. At the time that the Department of State representatives appeared before the Senate Committee on Appropriations, Mr. Carr made a statement with respect to that reduction of $4,000, saying that he would not ask at that time to have it restored, because we had learned, after we had submitted the original estimate, that we would have to have a supplementary estimate. And he explained the reasons for that supplementary estimate, which are as follows:

Two facts developed after the appropriation bill was passed. The first one was that the conference in Cairo will probably last a good deal longer than we originally anticipated. The budget was drawn up on the basis of 42 days for the duration of the conference

and we find from the International Bureau in Berne, where all of this work is concentrated, that a great many other subjects have come up for discussion, of a technical nature, which will involve a great deal of study and discussion, and that the conference will probably last for 3 months instead of 42 days.

I might say just there, that the last one of these general telecommunication conferences, which was held in Madrid in 1932, lasted for 96 days.

Mr. WOODRUM. What was accomplished by the conference and what will likely be accomplished by this conference?

Mr. HOLMES. If I may go on and explain this first, Mr. Woodrum, I might ask one of these technical gentlemen to answer that question. I think they can probably do it much better than I.

Mr. WOODRUM. Very well.

INCREASED DURATION OF CONFERENCE

Mr. HOLMES. We find that this conference is going to last longer, and therefore we would have to have a good bit more money to pay the per diem allowances of the people going, rent of offices, salaries for temporary employees that we would have to hire for the duration of the conference. That amount comes to about $25,000, the additional amount due to the fact that the conference is going to last longer than originally was anticipated.

The second fact that presented itself was the decision on the part of the Federal Communications Commission, in which we in the State Department concurred, that we ought at this time to take part in the second conference which will be going on at the same time in Cairo, and that is the conference on telegraph and telephone.

Participation in that conference will require the presence of more people.

PROVISIONS OF MADRID CONVENTION

I may say that the telecommunication convention under which this whole thing operates, which was signed in Madrid in 1932, is set up as follows. There is a basic treaty and then under that treaty there are sets of regulations. The Government may subscribe to the radio regulations or to the telegraph regulations, or to both.

We have subscribed to the radio regulations and have participated in all the radio activity since that time. At the time the treaty was signed in Madrid we had no authority in this country to control the activities of the telegraph companies, so we did not subscribe to the telegraph regulations. Since that time the Federal Communications Commission has been given that authority, and they feel that it is their responsibility, because of the international aspect of communication by telegraph, and because of the huge sum of money involved by American users, to take part; that it is necessary for us to participate in these deliberations and have something to say about the international regulatory measures which would be adopted there.

These two conferences will run concurrently. They both flow from the same authority, but in their organization they are quite independent, covering separate subjects.

Instead of attempting to organize a second delegation to go and take part in the telegraph meeting, we have made up a new budget

and a new set-up, expanding the original delegation. We have done that so that it can take care of both of these conferences.

The manner in which this has been set up is: At the suggestion of the Bureau of the Budget an entirely new break-down has been made on the basis of a total amount of $100,000, of which $45,000 has already been appropriated. Those are the reasons why we have come here to ask for this extra money.

I think Mr. Gross can probably answer your question, Mr. Chairman, about the accomplishments of the Madrid meeting and what it is hoped will be accomplished at the Cairo meeting.

NUMBER OF NATIONS PARTICIPATING

Mr. SNYDER. About how many nations are involved in this? Mr. HOLMES. Eighty, I think, when you count the independent colonies, and so forth. There are about 80 members, practically every nation in the world.

UNITED STATES DELEGATION TO CAIRO CONFERENCE

Mr. TABER. Who is going?

Mr. HOLMES. That has not been decided yet, sir; you mean which countries?

Mr. TABER. No. Who is going from this country?

Mr. HOLMES. The President has not made a selection of the delegates as yet. There will be technical people, certainly from the Federal Communications Commission, from the Department of Commerce; from the War Department; the Navy; probably from the Coast Guard and from the Department of State. Practically every Government department has some interest in this.

NUMBER OF DELEGATES ATTENDING AND DURATION OF MADRID CONFERENCE

Mr. SNYDER. How many went in 1932, do you recall?

Mr. HOLMES. I do not recall.

Mr. TABER. How much was appropriated in 1932?

Mr. HOLMES. About $80,000.

Mr. WOODRUM. $85,000.

Mr. GROSS. There were 31 of the total delegation, including the staff.

Mr. TABER. How long did they stay there?

Mr. HOLMES. Ninety-six days in Madrid. The conference actually lasted 96 days.

Mr. WOODRUM. What did they do after they conferred 96 days? Mr. HOLMES. That is a question that I think Mr. Gross can best

answer.

PROBLEMS OF INTERNATIONAL TELECOMMUNICATION

Mr. GROSS. Mr. Chairman, the problem involved is divided into two parts. There is the regulation of radio and the regulation of the wire services.

Because of certain technical limitations, the ether channels are limited, as you gentlemen are all aware. There are only a certain number for the use of the entire world. Consequently, in order for

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