for certain things. But take hard wood, you would have to wait three-quarters of a century to grow that? Mr. CLAPP. I should say so. The average might be 75 years.

Some of them more and others less.

DEPARTMENTAL AND FIELD PERSONNEL

Mr. WOODRUM. How much additional departmental personnel would this require?

Mr. JUMP. Do you mean in Washington?

Mr. WOODRUM. Yes.

Mr. JUMP. About $45,000.

Mr. WOODRUM. Of that $45,000 personnel, how much would be in Washington and how much in the field?

Mr. JUMP. We figure that 80 percent of the total amount would go for personnel.

Mr. Cook. $717,000.

Mr. WOODRUM. How many people?

Mr. Cook. We don't have that figure.

Mr. WOODRUM. How do you arrive at any figure, then?

Mr. CLAPP. We will have to supply that.

Mr. WOODRUM. Do you mean that you cannot tell how many people you propose to employ under this appropriation?

Mr. Cook. We can get that for the record.

Mr. WOODRUM. How would the appointments be made? Are they civil-service appointments?

Mr. Cook. In certain cases they are civil service and in others not Mr. WOODRUM. Which ones would not be?

Mr. JUMP. They will all be civil service, Mr. Woodrum, insofar as the general meaning of the term is concerned. I think what Mr. Cook means is that on some of the field employments-the temporary, intermittent, and cooperative employment, the usual rules which constitute exceptions to the classified civil service necessarily would apply.

Mr. WOODRUM. How many additional people are you taking on in the Department in Washington? Do you know?

Mr. JUMP. No. Our situation, frankly, is that the estimate was originally made up with larger figures. It has been very recently revised to a plan which would operate on what we thought we could get. That is why we haven't the figures up to date.

Mr. WOODRUM. Will you furnish for the record a complete breakdown of the field and departmental personnel, the types of positions, the salaries proposed to be paid, and where they will be employed?

Mr. JUMP. Yes. We will put a complete statement in the record. (Statement requested is as follows:)

148745-37- -29

FARM FORESTRY EXTENSION

The item for "Farm forestry extension" will be expended in that type of work in from 30 to 35 States, and an approximate amount of $3,000 will be expended in each State.

The prairie States forestry project covers the tree-planting and reforestation work in the various States of the prairie-plains region, in the semiarid so-called "drought area" and the amount allocated for that purpose will be expended largely within those States.

Cooperative farm forestry work with the States will be conducted in approximately 35 to 40 States, and the appropriation will be apportioned among the States in accordance with the problem as it exists and with due regard to the cooperative contribution made by the State for the furtherance of this work.

FARM FORESTRY RESEARCH

The farm forestry research will be conducted by the regional forestry experiment stations for the regions covered and located as follows: Central, Columbus, Ohio; Appalachian, Asheville, N. C.; Southern, New Orleans, La.; Lake States, St. Paul, Minn.; and Great Plains, still to be determined. The work will be done by the men on the staffs of these regional stations working in cooperation with State experiment stations within these respective regions.

Mr. WOODRUM. Where will these regional offices be located? You have a New England regional office, a Middle Atlantic regional office, and so on. Will there be offices in each region opened up? Mr. CLAPP. No new offices.

Mr. WOODRUM. They will work through existing agencies?

Mr. CLAPP. They will work through and utilize existing agencies, I think, without exception.

Mr. SNYDER. In the field what type of men would have to be put on to carry out the provisions of the field activities required?

Mr. CLAPP. For the most part they would be trained foresters or trained extension workers. When it comes to such things as growing the trees in the nurseries, we might have men of the skilled-labor type.

PRAIRIE STATES FORESTRY PROJECT

Mr. LUDLOW. It is intended under this plan to establish a tree belt through the country from Texas to Canada?

Mr. CLAPP. Some of the work would be in the plains-prairie regions. Mr. LUDLOW. I have reference to the project that was considerably advertised a short time ago, of a 100-mile wide forest belt to extend across the country. Under paragraph 4 of your outline would that enterprise be undertaken?

Mr. CLAPP. In somewhat different form. We will have a broader objective, that of aiding in the planting of trees in the prairie-plains regions, where trees can be planted successfully, where they are needed, where we are sure of beneficial results.

Mr. LUDLOW. Is it your thought that such a tree belt across the country would be desirable and beneficial?

Mr. CLAPP. For plains planting in general, yes, we think it would be desirable. We are satisfied that it can be done, and we think it would be desirable in a great many ways. It would cut down local wind movement. It would protect crops. It would prevent erosion, the blowing of snow. It would provide protection of livestock during bad winter storms. It would make the country in general a more desirable place to live in.

Mr. LUDLOW. What I am trying to get is to definitely understand whether that particular project is to be undertaken.

Mr. CLAPP. Not the old prairie-plains project as such. It will be something broader in its conception, although it will involve in part the same kind of activities.

Mr. WOODRUM. What about the shelterbelt project, $500,000? Tell us something about that.

Mr. CLAPP. That is what I have been talking about.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. Is that the total project or the start of a larger project?

Mr. CLAPP. That is the initial step, I would say.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. What is the total area, the total extent of that general conception?

Mr. Cook. Do you mean the old shelterbelt plan?

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. You have an item here called the prairie States forestry project.

Mr. Cook. The total area contemplated to be planted is between 2 and 21⁄2 million acres, which is not to exceed from 2 to 3 percent of the area involved needing planting in the plains States. That would require something over 3,000,000,000 trees.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. At what estimated cost?
Mr. Cook. You mean over a period of years?

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. The total cost.

Mr. Cook. The total cost would be about 40 or 50 million dollars. Mr. LUDLOW. Referring now to this transcountry treebelt proposition that we have been talking about or shelterbelt planting?

Mr. CLAPP. Yes. We are talking about planting in the prairieplains region.

Mr. LUDLOW. I mean the 100-mile wide belt. What would that cost? Mr. Cook. The old 100-mile wide belt which we figured originally would be about 60 or 70 million dollars.

Mr. TABER. Who is back of this proposition that we are considering? Mr. CLAPP. This plains forestry?

Mr. TABER. Yes.

Mr. CLAPP. I think, the Department of Agriculture. The Forest Service.

Mr. TABER. Was it initiated by them with the idea of building up their force?

Mr. CLAPP. No, sir.

Mr. TABER. So that we might have a little bigger and better Agricultural Department?

Mr. CLAPP. No, sir.

ACTIVITY ESTIMATED FOR AND ALREADY CARRIED ON UNDER FUNDS SUPPLIED IN REGULAR APPROPRIATION BILL

Mr. WOODRUM. I would like to ask the question if there isn't a direct duplication between your proposed legislation and this activity which is already in the Department of Agriculture, for which we have made an appropriation in the current bill:

Cooperative farm forestry: For cooperation with appropriate officials of the various States or with suitable agencies to assist owners of farms in establishing, improving, and renewing wood and shelter belts, windbreaks, and other valuable forest growths, growing and renewing useful timber crops under the provisions of section 5 of the act entitled "An act to provide for the protection of forest lands" and so forth and so on,

for which we appropriated for the Department $56,838 in the regular appropriation bill? Isn't that exactly what this is?