Total work completed during the period April 1933-April 1937-Continued OTHER ACTIVITIES (1,000 SERIES)-Continued

CONTINUING PERSONNEL WITHOUT NECESSITY OF REAPPOINTMENT

Mr. WOODRUM. Gentlemen, do you have any further questions? Do you have any questions, Mr. Bacon?

Mr. BACON. I have no more questions.

Mr. MCENTEE. May I make a statement?

Mr. WOODRUM. Yes.

Mr. MCENTEE. Mr. Chairman, when the enabling act was introduced in Congress, or in the Senate, a provision for the transfer of all personnel was in it, but when the Civil Service clause was stricken out, unintentionally, no provision was made for the transfer of personnel other than the enrolled personnel. If I may suggest, we have drafted something here which I think will overcome that oversight. Mr. WOODRUM. Suppose you read it.

Mr. MCENTEE. It reads as follows:

Provided, further, That the employment of employees of the Emergency Conservation Work and of the cooperating Federal agencies whose compensation is paid from Emergency Conservation Work funds, as of June 30, 1937, and whose employment was not specifically terminated as of that date, may be continued without reappointment, subject to review by the Director.

AMOUNT REQUESTED OF BUDGET BUREAU FOR CLOTHING PURCHASES BY THE WAR DEPARTMENT

There is one further statement I would like to make: Yesterday the question was asked by one member of the committee as to whether all that we asked the Budget for was this $350,000,000. I replied at the time that the other departments had asked for more funds than that, but that the Director's office had placed a limiting figure on them. I omitted to state further that, in addition to the $350,000,000 asked for, we asked for $26,000,000 for contractual purchases by the War Department for clothing, and so forth. That was stricken out by the Budget.

Mr. WOODRUM. You asked the right to make contracts to that extent?

Mr. McENTEE. Yes, sir; I wanted to make that explanation relative to the appropriation that was asked. We asked for that $26,000,000, to make 1939 purchases, but it was not allowed by the Budget.

OBLIGATIONS FROM JULY 1, 1936 TO MAY 31, 1937

Mr. TABER. You told me last night that the 1938 subsistence item was estimated on the basis of 47.23 cents, and that your cost through 1937 was approximately 46.07 cents or 46.06, or something like that. You stated that your gross figures for subsistence are estimated to be just about the same as for the current fiscal year, with only about $770,000 difference. Now, it looks to me as if there was no question that with a 20-percent cut in the personnel there should-have been a $10,000,000 plus, cut there in that item. It seems to me that there should have been that much cut without any question whatever. What about that?

Mr. McENTEE. I will have to refer that to General Tyner.

General TYNER. For 11 months we have obligated $358,574,184, the distribution of which is as follows:

Statement showing obligations for emergency conservation work, period July 1, 1936 to May 31, 1937

Mr. TABER. Who got up these figures on the green sheets? Captain BEAN. Those figures had to be gotten up in 6 days. The figures for 1937 are pretty much of an estimate, the same as those for 1938. We had to estimate for both years. This was done during the rush.

Mr. TABER. Can the quartermaster tell us about the figures? Captain BEAN. They represent actual obligations up to May 31, and we still have another month to go.

Mr. TABER. The total of this amount at this time is how much? Captain BEAN. It is $358,574,184.

Mr. TABER. What was the total appropriation?

Captain BEAN. $403,000,000 was the total appropriation for 12 months.

Mr. TABER. How much will you expend of that?
Captain BEAN. We will save about $4,000,000.

Mr. TABER. Practically $400,000,000 will represent the expenditures?

Captain BEAN. Yes, sir; the saving will be the same as that shown on the green sheets.

SUBSISTENCE ESTIMATE FOR 1938

Mr. WOODRUM. I would like to ask a general question about this estimate of subsistence for 1938, of $53,000,000, plus: Is there any amount set up in that estimate for reserve stock?

General TYNER. There are carry-overs totaling $5,000,000. We have accumulated a carry-over of $3,000,000, and we are trying to have $2,000,000 over this so we may have a ration distribution in the field for the first few days of the new fiscal year, beyond this fiscal year, so we can buy by the contractual method in order not to be a on hand-to-mouth basis by reason of being out of money.

Mr. WOODRUM. There was no such carry-over figured in the 1937 estimates, was there?

General TYNER. We had $3,000,000, and we are asking $2,000,000 more, making a total of $5,000,000.

Mr. WOODRUM. Is it necessary, in your judgment, to have that carry-over?

General TYNER. Yes, sir; theoretically, if we run right to the end of June--the end of the fiscal year, we would have nothing for breakfast the next morning, and would have to go to the corner grocery to buy the breakfast, which would cost a great deal.

Mr. WOODRUM. How much difference would that three-fourths of a cent per ration make in this figure of $54,000,000?

General TYNER. We figure on an average strength of 290,000 present at all times. We take 10,000 men off of the authorized strength as being absent at all times, so that we estimate on the basis of 290,000 men. It would be that figure of 290,000 men times 365 days.

Mr. TABER. It would be a 1 percent increase; 0.47 cent would be a 1 percent increase on 47 cents, would it not?

General TYNER. Yes, sir.

PURCHASE OF EQUIPMENT

Mr. TABER. Now, as to equipment business and the expense for that, you are running at $8,600,000 for equipment as against $6,500,000 for last year.

General TYNER. For equipment, we are asking only $631,000.

Captain BEAN. That is under the War Department. He means the consolidated figures.

Mr. TABER. There is a difference of $2,000,000.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. You do not have a break-down of that, do you?

Mr. MCENTEE. No, sir.

General TYNER. For the War Department, we are asking less for equipment for 1938 than we have for 1937.

Mr. MCENTEE. On that equipment question, Mr. Morrell, of the Agricultural Department, and Mr. Wirth, of the Interior Depart

ment, can go into the details. Our equipment takes a hard beating in its use, as you may know.

Mr. TABER. You have a lot of it stored at different places, have you not?

Mr. McENTEE. Not unless the equipment is stored for future use. That is where we have equipment to operate the camps, and if we are reducing the number of camps, we will salvage whatever equipment can be salvaged, and store it for future use.

Mr. TABER. You have a large amount of equipment stored at different places, have you not?

Mr. MCENTEE. No, sir; not a large amount.

We have some stored.

Mr. TABER. It has been stored for a long time, or over a year, has it not?

Mr. MCENTEE. Some of it is not equipment that is usable. When you close a camp, there are other camps and services that are anxious to take that equipment. We send all that can be used and put it into service. None of the agencies, they tell us, are ever permitted to have as much equipment as they can use. When we close a camp, it is possible that some equipment is stored somewhere. As you understand, it is very difficult to get rid of surplus Government equipment. The law makes us retain a lot of it, and sets up the method by which we can get rid of it, through the Director of Procurement.

Mr. TABER. They opened a camp in our territory and run it for 2 or 3 months. Then they closed it up, and put the equipment in sheds. A year later it was still there, and whether it is there now, I do not know. There are other camps operating within 5 or 6 miles of it. Perhaps that is a good way to do business. I do not know about that. Mr. McENTEE. It is probably not, from your statement, or from the way it sounds. Of course, I am satisfied that you are making a

correct statement.

Mr. TABER. I do not know what they are doing about it now. I knew about it for a year or two.

Mr. MCENTEE. At one time, several years back, it was contemplated to have a corps with an enrolled strength of 600,000, and we had to make plans for that. We had to make plans for 600,000 men enrolled in the corps, and, of course, months ahead of that enrollment, the Army would have to build camps and provide equipment for future projects. Some advance purchases were made to take care of 600,000 enrollees. That number did not materialize, and as a result a few camps were closed after being open for 2 or 3 months. The buildings are being retained there because we hope to work up a program by which we would move back to the same places. If this equipment is of any value, it will be used.

Mr. BACON. How do you purchase equipment? Do you purchase it through the Procurement Division on competitive bids?

Mr. McENTEE. The agencies practically work out their own procurement. The technical agencies are procuring the equipment which they require.

Mr. BACON. Do they purchase it on competitive bidding?

Mr. MCENTEE. Yes, sir; clothing and matters of that kind are Army purchases.

Mr. TABER. Who takes care of the maintenance of equipment? Mr. McENTEE. All of the agencies handle the maintenance of their machines; that is, the War Department, the Department of the Interior, the Department of Agriculture, and so forth.

Mr. TABER. How do you handle it when it is in State parks or on State forest lands?

Mr. McENTEE. In a number of camps, we employ camp mechanics for light emergency repair work.

Mr. TABER. You do not teach the boys to do that sort of work.

Mr. McENTEE. Yes, sir; some are taught that. We use some of them for helpers on that sort of work. Many services have garages capable of handling heavy repairs, and some is done outside of the camps. In some cases the work is done by commercial garages. However, that does not prove to be satisfactory, and we are trying to eliminate dealings with commercial shops or garages.

Mr. LUDLOW. Can you estimate the value of the equipment that has been purchased and has never been used?

Mr. MCENTEE. Mr. Wirth and Mr. Morrell can answer that.

Mr. WIRTH. That equipment was used at one time. When those camps closed up, the equipment was stored for use in other camps. We have at the present time equipment in use from various years. For instance, over 78 percent of our equipment is of 1935 and 1936. Of trucks and things of that kind used in connection with the projects, nearly 12 percent were operating in 1933, and it is getting to be more expensive to repair them than to replace them; 20 percent would be 1934 equipment and 46 percent 1935 equipment, making it over 3 years old. About 38 percent is over 3 years old.

Mr. McENTEE. I might add, while on the subject, in answer to your question about material that was never used. All of those trucks have been used. In the case of those camps that were closed, if they had equipment that possibly had been in use only 6 or 7 months, it was transferred over to another camp to replace trucks that were worn out.

Mr. LUDLOW. I thought you said you overestimated your requirements, and, as a result, purchased a good deal of equipment that was not necessary.

Mr. McENTEE. That was in building camps. It was back in 1935, and that equipment has again been put in service.

Mr. BACON. Equipment purchased for the Department of the Interior will be provided by the Department of the Interior.

Mr. MCENTEE. Yes, sir.

Mr. BACON. Is there anybody from the Department of Agriculture who will make a statement for that Department similar to the one made by the representative of the Interior Department in reference to supplies and equipment in that Department?

Mr. MORRELL. I think the statement made by Mr. Wirth applies equally to the Department of Agriculture. Do you wish a further statement?

Mr. BACON. The gentleman from the Interior Department stated that they were still working with equipment that was bought in 1933, and I was wondering what that situation was with respect to the Department of Agriculture.

Mr. MORRELL. We can give the years when the equipment was bought. About 25 percent of it is 1933 equipment.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. Is this equipment taken from some of the other departments, to any extent, or is all of it purchased outside? Mr. MORRELL. It is purchased outside. There has been some surplus equipment from the War Department. A rather large quantity of that was used.