General TYNER. Yes, sir; where we cannot get Reserve Medical officers.

Mr. WOODRUM. You will continue them if you cannot get Medical Reserve officers.

General TYNER. Yes, sir; they are not affected by the Reserve officer policy until we secure replacements.

APPLICATIONS AND REQUIREMENTS FOR ENROLLMENT

Mr. LUDLOW. How are the applications for enrollment holding up? General TYNER. They fell off April 1.

Mr. TABER. How long do they stay.

General TYNER. Six months.

Mr. TABER. What are the enrollment dates?

General TYNER. July 1, October 1, January 1, and April 1.
Mr. TABER. Some go in for a quarter?

General TYNER. Heretofore, on July 1 and January 1, we enrolled them only for the current quarter, but commencing on July 1, under the new law, we will enroll them for 6 months. The law specifically says for 6 months.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. Are they eligible for reenrollment.

General TYNER. Only up to 2 years, and no longer, except that in each company of juniors, the law makes an exception as to five mennamely, one mess steward, three cooks, and one leader in each company. Veterans are also exempt from that provision.

Mr. LUDLOW. Is there a shortage of applications?

General TYNER. I would not like to say. On account of the new language, however, the selection has been broadened. The Labor Department is handling that.

Mr. MCENTEE. The selecting agencies estimate that they can enroll, perhaps, 100,000 boys under the act in July. We will require only about 54,000. That would be about 49,000 juniors and 5,000 veterans. The reports coming in indicate that there will be about that many juniors available.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. What are the selecting agencies?

Mr. McENTEE. The Labor Department. This selecting work is done through their various agencies in the field. Prior to the present time they used the various relief agencies as selecting agencies, operating through the State branches. The State selection agencies were working in turn with various welfare boards in the States and counties. The Labor Department is working up a system within the States, whereby they appoint State officials who are responsible for the selecting agencies in the various counties. We have never paid anything to either Federal or State officials who handle the selection of these people. I do not believe it can be handled as effectively in any other way.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. You say that there is no regular requirement about being on public relief in order to be accepted by the C. C. C. Mr. MCENTEE. No, sir; not in the new act.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. What is the requirement?

Mr. McENTEE. The requirement is to be unemployed and in need of employment. That will require considerable interpretation, and the interpretation we intend to place upon it is to try to meet what we think was the intent of Congress, which was to liberalize the restric

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tions and give an opportunity to boys who were in bad financial circumstances to enter. To illustrate, we have had something like 12,000 orphan boys around the country who have met the requirements to come into the corps except they had no dependents to whom to make allotments. Under this act we believe we can enroll those boys, and instead of having them make returns to relations, we can have them deposit the money they would otherwise send home until such time as they leave the corps. However, the act is so new that we have not been able to arrive finally at a definite decision on that. The intent is to make a temporary decision under which they will be enrolled.

QUOTA ALLOWANCE OF STATES

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. How would the selection Boards operate, as between the cities and counties within the States?

Mr. MCENTEE. We never interfere with that. We simply allot quotas to the States.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. The quota is based on what?

Mr. MCENTEE. It is based on population. Back in 1935 selection was based partly on population and partly on relief applicants in a State.

Mr. BACON. What will be the basis under the new act?

Mr. McENTEE. It will be based on population.

Mr. TABER. Will you give each State its quota?

Mr. McENTEE. Yes, sir.

Mr. TABER. If the State does not fill its quota, will you allow it to lapse?

Mr. McENTEE. We have in the past allowed States where the relief load was heavy to fill in from other States' quotas. I will insert in the record the quota allowances of the States.

Mr. WOODRUM. You may insert it in the record at this point. (The statement referred to is as follows:)

Estimated replacement quotas of Civilian Conservation Corps, July 1937 enrollment

Estimated replacement quotas of Civilian Conservation Corps, July 1937 enrollment-Continued

Mr. TABER. How many boys did you have on the 1st of January? Mr. ENTEE. On January 20 our record showed 355,027.

Mr. TABER. How many on April 1?

General TYNER. On the 31st of March we had 242,104.

Mr. TABER. How about April?

General TYNER. I can give it for the 10th, 20th, or 30th of April.

Mr. TABER. Let us have it for the 10th of April.

General TYNER. On April 10, there were 280,693.

Mr. TABER. How about May 10?

General TYNER. On May 10, there were 301,453.

Mr. TABER. How many did you have on June 10?
General TYNER. We had 278,352.

EFFECT OF APPROPRIATION FOR REDUCED NUMBER OF ENROLLEES

Mr. TABER. Now, you could take care of all that would apply voluntarily if you had an appropriation to take care of 250,000, could you not?

Mr. MCENTEE. I do not think so.

Mr. TABER. You would be able to take care of all who wanted to apply if you had an appropriation for only 250,000 boys.

Mr. MCENTEE. I do not think so; no, sir.

Mr. TABER. If they were not solicited.

Mr. McENTEE. No, sir.

Mr. WOODRUM. The figures he has been giving cover the people taken from relief rolls.

General TYNER. People in the corps.

Mr. TABER. Could you not get along with enough to provide for 250,000 boys?

Mr. McENTEE. No, sir. We are not going to get along all right now. We are getting all kinds of complaints about closing camps. You must understand that there are work projects about half way

completed. It will simply mean stopping work before projects are completed if we bring the number down any more rapidly.

Mr. TABER. Is it a problem of work that you have to do or a problem of voluntary applications from boys to enter the camps? Mr. MCENTEE. It is a problem of both.

Mr. TABER. Which problem is the weightier, or which one is crowding you most?

Mr. McENTEE. The work is extremely important, but there is no work project so important as these boys.

Mr. LUDLOW. You mean in character building?

Mr. MCENTEE. Yes, sir; tl at is the first thing to be considered, although there is a vast amount of conservation work being done at the camps.

Mr. TABER. The reason you must go back to that number is because you have so many camps running, and you must furnish the boys for them.

Mr. McENTEE. That is only one reason why we hope to enroll 300,000.

Mr. TABER. If it were not for the idea of finishing up that work, you could get along all right with provision for 250,000 men?

Mr. McENTEE. We could get along with whatever Congress told us to get along with. We will have to get along on whatever basis you allow. In answer to your question, I can only say this, that just so long as the work is there to be done, and just so long as there are a sufficient number of boys who want those jobs, it is our thought that we should enroll what the law permits us to enroll and carry on that work.

AVERAGE STAY OF ENROLLEE IN CAMP

Mr. TABER. Is there any requirement that the boy should be in such a situation in order to enter the camp that he cannot procure private employment?

Mr. MCENTEE. I think that the average youngster who has grown up wants a job if he can get it. I am sure that if they could get jobs on the outside, in industry, many of them would not be applying to the camps. The camp work may appeal to some of them. Some of them might prefer to work in the camps, but, sooner or later, they will work in some other industry if they have the opportunity. that reason, their stay is limited so that the boy cannot make a career out of it.

Mr. TABER. He enrolls for a period of 6 months.
Mr. McENTEE. Yes, sir; but he can stay for 2 years.
Mr. TABER. He can stay for 2 years under the law.

For

Mr. MCENTEE. He enters under the restriction that he can stay up to 2 years. The 2 years' limitation does not apply to veterans. Mr. TABER. Two years is the maximum, and he cannot stay beyond that.

Mr. McENTEE. No, sir; except in each company, one mess steward, three cooks, and one leader. The limitation does not apply to them.

Mr. TABER. Is it generally true that they stay longer than 6 months? Mr. MCENTEE. Our average stay in camp is 81⁄2 months. That is about the average figure.

Mr. LUDLOW. Do many of them resign to enter private employment?

Mr. MCENTEE. The average loss is about 8,000 a month to enter private employment. It was 11,000 for May 1937.

Mr. WOODRUM. You will have an entirely different proposition when you put into effect the new method of enrollment. Mr. MCENTEE. Yes, sir.

ABILITY TO QUALIFY BOYS FOR ENROLLMENT UNDER NEW REGULATIONS

Mr. WOODRUM. Now you take them for relief rolls. I think it has been the experience of most Congressman that many boys who wanted to enter the camps could not get in, but they can qualify under the new regulations.

Mr. MCENTEE. Yes, sir.

Mr. WOODRUM. Formerly, you could not enroll all unemployed boys who needed a job but who could not qualify under the relief roll provision, because some member of his family might be working.

Mr. McENTEE. That is true. Even if only one member of the family was working, and there was a mortgage on the home, he could not meet the requirement.

Mr. WOODRUM. It is also true that precautions are taken to make sure that they are people in need of relief.

Mr. McENTEE. We hope to work it out in this way: To have the selecting agency check down with reference to cases first, and then work upon the basis of need in the locality. As to this case work, the welfare organizations back in the towns and cities know their people fairly well, and while occasionally a boy may slip in who ought not to, they are pretty reliable.

Mr. WOODRUM. Take the agricultural communities. A farm boy who may be in need and may want a job, would very likely prefer to work in a C. C. C. camp than to work on somebody's farm, but he could get a job on a farm if there were any inducement for him to do it. How are you going to meet a situation of that kind?

Mr. MCENTEE. That will have to be met by the agency in the field. Mr. WOODRUM. Do you recognize it as a problem that should be met?

Mr. McENTEE. Oh, yes; very much so.

Mr. TABER. But no farmer can pay $30 a month, with the trimmings that these boys get, through the year, can he?

Mr. MCENTEE. Of course, Congressman, on the question whether $30 a month is an adequate wage or not, I would rather not go into that phase of it here. I do not know that it has any bearing on this situation. We are going to try-the selecting agency in the field will try to throw all possible protection around this selection. As a matter of fact, we think that the regulations sent out for July may be a little bit stiffer than they may be later, and we are doing that just to avoid the condition that you mention. If we find that we can liberalize them a little bit, we will probably do that in the next. enrollment.

Mr. WOODRUM. Are these applications going to have to be made in the locality in which the boy has his residence?

Mr. MCENTEE. Yes, sir.

Mr. WOODRUM. In other words, a boy cannot go from one part of the State to another part of the State and make an application?

Mr. MCENTEE. We would have a control over that in the selection.