Mr. WILLIAMS. These are pictures of the terrain. If you add all your costs, it would be considerably higher. We have to go out and buy a truck and pull a tanker, this is not included in the price. This is one road. Senator PACK WOOD. This is a road? Mr. WILLIAMS. Yes. Senator PACKWOOD. The audience can't see this. It is incredible that there was ever a road to begin with. I am surprised, looking at that, you get by on $300 a month for tires. Mr. WILLIAMS. Our roads now are about a foot deep in dirt and dust and underneath them are rocks sticking up and you can't see them. Senator PACKWOOD. The Federal Disaster Assistance Administration could have started a water hauling program. I think they have the authority to help you. They have not yet, and I am going to contact them again to see what can be done. Mr. WILLIAMS. This would be great. We would appreciate it because normally we turn out around May 15 and we are off of our range the 1st of October. If we haul water full time, only 15 days short, we are over $15,000 extra for water hauling and with the present market it hurts. No other Federal assistance has been forthcoming other than the water troughs which your office has made available. This has been a lifesaver and we greatly appreciate it. Senator PACKWOOD. Thank you. You are the one that was responsible for the idea. Mr. WILLIAMS. It has been a lifesaver to many of the ranchers. Some kind of assistance is needed whether it be cost sharing or grants for the purchase of some water hauling equipment or a State or Federal loan of equipment such as water tanks, water trucks, water troughs, truck tractors to pull water tanks, drilling of stock water wells, this is a small one, a 6- or 8-inch well on the ranch and the piping of water, and it would help if the Federal Government would provide drought assistance on the Federal range by drilling wells, hauling water with equipment such as firefighting equipment that was not needed for fire suppression or any other equipment that they have. Most ranchers or livestock owners are in debt because of prices of livestock over the past 3 years. The Federal loan programs aren't helping because these loans drag them deeper into debt and out of business quicker. Senator PACK WOOD. This is the same situation as the cattlemen, you cannot afford to borrow. Mr. WILLIAMS. That is it. Forcing of the sales of livestock is continuing to hurt the prices. The ASCS drought program is not much assistance for the amount is not large enough. This was spoken of earlier, that the cost share is 80 percent up to $2,500. The typical well to drill for water was told to me as $6,000 without the pump, and this is in the neighborhood of 200 to 300 feet for water. It is far above the ASCS. I would recommend $10,000 per practice paid at 80 percent with up to four practices per rancher be allowed. This is for drought assistance. If the drought had happened 10 years ago the Government would have provided twice as much help with $2,500 than they do today because of the inflationary costs. We feel that the Federal Government can take floods, fires, and other disasters, but they do not have the ability or knowledge to handle drought because it is happening over a much longer period of time. The problems aren't as visible as fire and flood damage. Thank you. Senator PACKWOOD. Again, thank you. I have no other questions or comments, but again, thank you for your initiative on this and your help. Mr. WILLIAMS. I have some other pictures if you would like to see them. Senator PACKWOOD. I would like to keep them. I think we can circulate them in the audience and let them look at them. Mr. WILLIAMS. I have pictures of the water hauling equipment and the troughs. Senator PACKWOOD. These are nothing more than riverbeds that have gone dry with rocks on it. Mr. WILLIAMS. That is all uphill. Senator PACKWOOD. Thank you again very much. I appreciate you taking your time to come over. [The prepared statement of Mr. Williams follows:] Gary Williams August 12, 1977 Senator Bob Packwood Portland, OR 97209 Dear Senator Packwood: Sheep producers in Oregon are not in as severe shape as cattlemen. There is a problem with feed and water, but sheep are easier to care for. It is easier to manare forage with sheep. So therefore, not to much assistance is asked for from sheepmen in Oregon. I had to move my sheep near Roseburg for the summer months, for feed. No assistance was given because we had hay on the ranch. Water hauling to sheep is being done as to cattle but it is considerable easier for sheep than for cattle. Sheen consume 1-2 gallons per day conpared to 15-25 for cattle on very dry feed conditions. The Federal Feed and Transportation Program is not working because all they consider is the feed you have on hand now, not what you will need later. We grow our own hay. The law reads that we feed that now. What do you feed in the winter, this is what the hay was raised for. It is cheaper to buy grass feed now than hay in the winter. Cattle are on the summer range, we have beer hauling water since June 3, 1977 at 6-8000 gallons per day. This month we are moving to pasture we rented at a higher price than normal. Normally we do not leave the summer range (Federal and private land) at all. A gain, no dought assistance is available. Water is being hauled to the sheep in the Roseburg area. It is also costing me $100.00 a day to haul water to the cattle. No drought assistance is available for either of these. No other federal assistance has been practical other than water troughs which your office has made available. This has been a lifesaver and we greatly appreciate it. Some kinds of Assistance needed would be sost sharing or grants for the purchasing of water hauling equipment State and/or Federal, loan of equipment as: water tanks, water trucks, water troughs, truck trailers to pull water tanks, drilling of stock water wells (small ones) on the ranges and piping of water pumps. page 2 It would help if the federal government would provide drought assistance on Federal range by drilling wells, and hauling water with fire fighting equipment when not needed for fire suppression. Most ranchers or livestock owners are in debt because of the prices of livestock over the past three years. Federal loan programs aren't helping because these loans drag them deeper into debt and out of business quicker. The forcing of sales of livestock is continuing to hurt prices. The ACP drought program is not of much assistance for the amount is not large enough. The cost share is 80% up to $2500.00. A typical well, strictly for stock water use was quoted to me at $6000.00 without pump. It is far above the ACP amount. I would recommend $10,000.00 per practice paid at 80% with up to four practices per rancher to be allowed. If the drought had happened ten years ago the govenment would have provided twice as much help with $2500.00 then they can today because of the inflationairy costs. We feel that the federal government can take floods, earthquakes, fires and other disasters but they do not have the ability or knowledge to handle drought because it happens over a much longer period of time. The problems aren't as visable as the fire and flood damage. Yours truly, Hary Williams Gary Williams Senator PACKWOOD. The next witness is Fred Hagelstein, assistant director of the Oregon State University Extension Service. Go ahead. STATEMENT OF FRED HAGELSTEIN, ASSISTANT DIRECTOR, OREGON STATE UNIVERSITY EXTENSION SERVICE, CORVALLIS, OREG. Mr. HAGELSTEIN. Senator Packwood, I have submitted testimony, so in the essence of time, I will just highlight some of the comments that I have made and submitted. As was noted, I am Fred Hagelstein, assistant director of the Oregon State University Extension Service. I am responsible for directing Oregon's agricultural extension programs, and Senator, I am pleased to appear before this Senate Select Committee on Small Business today to offer my suggestions regarding Federal drought programs as they apply to agriculture. As you realize, I am sure, the extension service has agricultural extension agents in each of Oregon's 36 counties. They interact locally with farmers, ranchers, and agriculture related businesses and organizations. Supporting our county agents, we have a small nucleus of extension specialists at OSU who are experts in the various fields of agriculture. They provide the county agents with up-to-date information and research developments in their agricultural specialties. Our county agents and specialties have been involved in drought related programs and activities on a day-to-day basis. We are concerned with the drought and are doing what we can to help Oregon agriculture to cope with it. My testimony includes my own observations regarding the effectiveness, or lack of effectiveness, of various Federal drought programs, as well as observations of county agents. One of these county agents, Tom Zinn from The Dalles, will also present testimony today regarding the drought situation and problems in Wasco County. I have, Senator, six observations and suggestions regarding the Federal drought program. Many of these have been mentioned before. No. 1, my first observation regarding Federal drought programs is that we are sorely in need of an up-date on legislation and regulations of Federal programs which apply to drought emergencies. In fact, I seriously question whether the Federal Disaster Assistance Administration programs which were designed to meet short-term emergencies arising from floods, fires, tornadoes, and other catastrophiesadequately meet the needs of farmers and ranchers who have suffered losses due to the drought. My thesis at this point is that Congress needs to thoroughly study and, where necessary, update legislation and regulations which apply to Federal programs in drought emergencies. No. 2, the Emergency Livestock Feed Program is potentially one of the most important and beneficial programs for livestock producers affected by the drought. Yet, if ranchers are to qualify for assistance, the program under its current form has not permitted livestock operators to plan adjustments in their operations such as herd reduction, feeding program, et cetera, on a sound and rational basis. The present Emergency Livestock Feed Program regulations often penalize the good livestock manager and benefit the poor manager. |