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is concentrated by the mine, at the mine, in order to save the freight, and it comes to the smelter in the form of a concentrate, and those concentrates are mostly very fine. They are 25 per cent slime, and the slime will go through a 100-mesh screen; so you can conceive how very fine they are. Those have to be bricked; that is, they can not be put in the furnace in that form, because lead is a soft metal, very volatile, and if it was put in the furnace in that condition it would go right up the stack immediately. So it has to be put in in the form of compressed brick before it can be fed into the furnace. Then in the case of the sulphide ore, which many of them are, and they are getting to be more and more so. The oxidized ores are near the surface of the earth, and as the mine goes deeper the ore is not oxidized, but is a sulphide, and it has to be roasted. That is the case with most of the ores. We are continually, every year, adding to our roasting capacity, and find it necessary to do so.

The CHAIRMAX. How is it handled, by machinery?

Mr. BRUSH. By labor and machinery. Take the Murray plant that you are inquiring about in Utah; it employs about 700 men in the operation. The ore going into the plant is first unloaded at the sampling mill. It all goes through the sampling mill and out again. From that it goes to the roaster to be roasted. In the case of most of the ores, it is handled in and out of the roaster. From there it goes to the bricking machine, if it is to be bricked, and put into bricks. That is handled in and out. From the bricking machine it goes to the beds, and there it is put in the beds in order that it may be mixed with other ores for the reason that before it is put into the furnace we have to get an absolute metallurgical formula, so as not to lose the lead to an abnormal extent or the silver to an abnormal extent. There must be a metallurgical formula that will show 32 per cent silica, about 22 per cent iron, about 16 per cent lime, and not less than 8 per cent lead nor more than 12 per cent lead to do good work. At times we are obliged to run less. In Mexico, where lead is not so precious as it is here, a higher percentage of lead is run, sometimes as high as 20 per cent. That is not economical, however. Then, in connection with bedding, it is in and out again, and then it goes to the smelting furnace and from the smelting furnace it comes out as matte and lead bullion.

The lead bullion is shipped to the refinery for refining. It contains lead and silver and gold. The precious metals have a chemical aflinity for the lead and stay with it in solution, and the matte is lowgrade matte with usually about 12 per cent copper. That has to be concentrated through two processes to bring it up to 45 per cent matte. And from there, containing some lead, sometimes as high as 25 per cent lead and 45 per cent copper, it is shipped to the reverberatory copper works to blow it to what is called " copper bullion." In that process it used to be the case that the lead was entirely lost, and in fact now copper smelters charge a penalty against a smelter if there is lead in the ore and will buy the matte without the lead, paying a better price for it. But at the present time, owing to the better metallurgical work, some of it is saved from that process. Then the lead bullion is refined in a refinery where it goes through also several processes of refining, the silver going through the retorts, and the zinc being retorted also to save it-a certain portion of it that is used—and the gold has to be refined. The gold and silver

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come out together, and that has to be parted and then refined. So there are a great many processes. The ore, as I have explained it to you with respect to this Murray plant, is handled, I believe, thirteen times—the weight for each ton of ore. There are then separate items of transportation from one plant to another point in connection with each of these operations. The smelting of lead is a very complicated business; it is a very fine metallurgical work, while copper smelting is comparatively simple. The reason why it is so complicated is because of the fact that lead is so very volatile, and it is so easy to drive the precious metals into the matte, where they are lost, and where they have to go through three or four additional processes to recover them, and a very large proportion of the lead is then lost.

The CHAIRMAN. Are you able to state the average of production per ton of ore in Utah in copper, lead, silver, and gold in 1906 ?

Mr. BRUSH. No; I think that would require some state statistics which I do not have; and then, again, I think that would include, of course, all ores. There are a great many ores in Utah that are producers of silver and gold, but which do not contain any lead at all. They are smelted, however, with the lead ores when the ores go to the smelter. I can tell you just exactly what we have ourselves, or I can give you a sample of some of our mines. Since you spoke about Utah, I remember that you had before you, on some other hearing, a representative of the mining interests of Utah, and he mentioned two lead mines in Utah, which happened to be the two largest producers of lead in the State of Utah, and they are shipping ore to our smelters.

The CHAIRMAN. What mines were those ?

Mr. Brush. Those were the Silver King mine and the Daly West mine. I would not refer to them excepting for the fact that they have been already referred to in the testimony before you. The gentleman testifying spoke of the lead ores as being on an average of 8 per cent lead. I think that possibly he arrived at that percentage by taking all of the ore that was produced and dividing it into the amount of lead that was produced. It was extremely unscientific, as you will find if you undertake to make any investigation. But since he mentioned these two mines, I will say that the Silver King ships to us, but they ship their ore as most lead mines do. They concentrate it and ship it to us in the form of concentrate; and the Silver King, I find by the statistics before me, ships ore that averages 46 per cent lead.

The CHAIRMAN. That is the concentrate?
Mr. BRUSH. The concentrate; yes.

The CHAIRMAN. The process of concentrating eliminates some of the dross?

Mr. Brush. It eliminates the iron, and mica, and quartz, and everything that they can in order to save weight-save freights, because the freight item is a very heavy one.

The CHAIRMAN. The concentrate represents 46 per cent lead?

Mr. Brush. That is the way it comes to us, 46 per cent lead; and the Daly West comes to us as

The CHAIRMAN. Before you go to that, how much copper is there, if any?

Mr. Brush. No copper in that ore--well, I say none, but there is a little less than 1 per cent of copper in the ore.

The CHAIRMAN. How much silver ?

Mr. Brush. An average of 55 ounces of silver. That is one of the richest of the concentrates that I know of in silver.

The CHAIRMAX. How about the gold?

Mr. Brush. There was seven-hundredths of an ounce per ton; in other words, in a carload of 20 tons of mass material, looking like dirt, there would be one ounce of gold, which the smelter paid $20 for, and had hard work to find.

The CHAIRMAN. Any other thing of value that comes out of the smelting process?

Mr. Brush. No, sir; there are quite a number of things of no value. Sulphur, 12 per cent, and it has to be roasted in order to drive it off, because if the sulphur went into the furnace the whole mass would come out as a matte; it would not come out as bullion at all. We have to get the sulphur down to a very small percentage; we do not like to have more than 2 or 3 per cent of sulphur in the furnace. The Daly West, if I might give you that

The CHAIRMAN. Before you get to that, and still speaking of the Silver King mine, how much does it cost per ton for the process of smelting and refining? Can you take it for some year, say 1906 ?

Mr. BRUSH. I haven't any particular year made up. I simply picked out this statement, which covers three months only-it must be this year, three months of this year. There is virtually no difference in the character of the ore. These are fair averages. Those happen to be the figures I have before me.

The CHAIRMAN. What was the cost ?

Mr. BRUSH. The cost we have figured here, that we had to charge up against ourselves, averages $7.25 per ton of ore. Our charge against the mine, what we call our margin against the mine, was a little less than $10, showing a profit of less than $3 a ton on that ore.

The CHAIRMAN. You say you charged it against the mine. What do you charge against the mine; give the items!

Mr. Brush. The way we arrive at what we call our margin

The CHAIRMAX. Before you go any further, I discover that I omitted one little ceremony. Please raise

your right hand. (The witness was thereupon duly sworn by the chairman.)

The CHAIRMAX. And what you have stated thus far is correct, is it not?

Mr. Brusi. That may date back; yes, sir.

What we call our margin is—we take the value of the metals at the New York quotation. All the metal contains the ore at the New York quotation. Deduct from that the freight to New York, what we have to pay the refiner for refining, and from this deduct the amount of money that we pay to the miner, and the difference is the margin, the money we have left to do our work with, provided we are able to sell those metals in New York at the price we pay for them. We pay the miner for all the metals in the ore by sight draft when he ships the ore to the smelter, against the weights and assay, which is checked by his own representative; but we do not get the metal to the market on an average of four months after that period, and we always assume that we will be able to sell our metals for what we pay for them, but at times that has been hard work.

The CHAIRMAN. What do you charge for smelting that?

Mr. Brush. I have not the particulars of what we charge them for smelting, because the contract as it is made pays for a certain amount of lead, pays for a certain amount of silver, and pays for all the gold at the New York quotation, and then makes a deduction which we call a working charge, and that, in the case of these lead ores, is usually about $8 a ton.

The CHAIRMAN. About $8 a ton?
Mr. BRUSH. That is not always the case, by any means.

The CHAIRMAN. You said about $8, and I asked you if that was correct.

Mr. Brush. My recollection is that with reference to these two mines that I have spoken of, in the case of the Silver King mine it is correct, but in the case of the Daly-West mine it is not. At any rate, on the Daly-West ore we make a loss.

The CHAIRMAN. What do you charge them for freight?

Mr. Brush. Well, whatever we have to pay. From Utah the charge to New York is, on the bullion, I believe, $10 a ton. From Colorado it is $7. Unfortunately, I have not the figures before me from Utah, but I know that from Colorado it is $7 a ton.

The CHAIRMAN. You think it is $10 from Utah?
Mr. BRUSH. I think it is, but I am not sure.
The CHAIRMAN. Our recollection is that Mr. Allen said that it was

.25 per hundred. I think that was the statement, but I have not located it.

Mr. Brush. That could not be, because that would be $25 a ton, would it not?

The CHAIRMAN. Yes.

Mr. BRUSH. Of course, freight rates are open to inspection; they are all published.

The CHAIRMAN. But from your recollection it is $10 per ton?

Mr. BRUSH. Certainly not more than $10 a ton, and it may not be more than $9.:

The CHAIRMAN. And from Colorado, $7.
Mr. Brush. Yes, sir.
The CHAIRMAN. You are positive about that?

Mr. BRUSH. Yes. We have four or five smelters in the State of Colorado, and we only have one in Utah.

The CHAIRMAN. This matte that you send for the smelting process—I suppose you send it to the refinery at Chicago ?

Mr. Brush. It goes, in fact, to Omaha.
The CHAIRMAN. And is there refined ?

Mr. BRUSH. Yes, sir; there it is made into what we call blistered copper, or copper bullion, and from there shipped to Perth Amboy, in New Jersey, where it is refined. The refinery at Perth Amboy is the only copper refinery we have.

The CHAIRMAN. Then it does not go into the market at all until it gets to Perth Amboy?

Mr. Brush. There is no consumption for copper, comparatively, in the West.

The CHAIRMAN. Can you give us the cost to you of smelting?

Mr. Brush. I can give it to you on that ore, or these other ores that I brought down, which I thought would be typical ores. I have given you already the Silver King, and can give you the Daly-West.

The CHAIRMAN. I think you gave me the total cost of smelting and refining, both, at $7?

Mr. Brush. That is the charge made by the smelter, and the smelter has to pay the freight to the refinery out of that.

The CHAIRMAN. Something over $7 for that mine, the Silver King!

Mr. BRUSH. About-I will give it to you exact. One month it was $6.91; the next month, $6.78; the next month, $7.86. It varies in accordance with the percentage of sulphur and the percentage of zinc in the ore. Where there is a heavy percentage of zinc it increases the cost of smelting, so much so that the smelter, when he buys an ore, places a penalty on the zinc contents of it if it goes over a certain per cent, as I will show you later on some other ore when we are through with the Silver King.

The CHAIRMAN. How much does the lead cost you as it finally comes from your copper refinery at Perth Amboy?

Mr. BRUSH. The smelter is the agent of the miner-there is no such thing as cost to ourselves of lead. We buy from the miner, and pay him the New York quotation, the full New York quotation, for the lead the day that he ships his ore, and we simply act as his agent in the disposition of that lead. If the price of lead goes up, the miner gets it, and if the price goes down tlíe miner loses it. Except, as I say, that during the four months if it goes down and we have not been able to sell we lose it.

The CHAIRMAN. How much toll do you take out of it? You say that you act as agent. How much commission, or whatever you may call it; how much do you take out of it?

Mr. BRUSI. What we might call toll is the charge we make and the deduction from the total metal contents. The deduction for the total metal contents is only intended to cover the exact amount of metals lost in the process of roasting and smelting and refining.

The CHAIRMAN. What is your profit out of it; what do you get out of it? I am referring to this agency business.

Mr. Brush. I don't know any other way to answer that, Mr. Chairman, excepting by referring to the annual report of the company. Our company in the last annual report showed that they made a profit of $7,000,000. We refined 216,000 tons of lead, including Mexican lead, which was refined in bond, and we refined about 50,000 tons of copper, and about 60,000,000 ounces of silver, and about 1,000,000 ounces of gold, at a total value of about ninety millions of dollars. It is next to impossible to say what profit we made on each of these operations; but for years, assuming-which I think is fair--that the profit in refining of lead is $2.50 per ton--and when I say profit I mean profit at the works--that does not take out interest, which is a very large item in the carry, nor does it take out depreciation or administrative expenses or selling expenses and the inevitable loss in connection with selling. It is simply the profit at the works. If we assume that as $2.50 on lead bullion, and $1 on copper bullion, and a quarter of a cent an ounce on the refining of silver, and, say, 25 cents an ounce on the refining of gold worth $20.50 an ounce, with all the risk of loss in it, that would leave a profit for the

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