Q. Did you say to him, "That is not the right way, Mr. Weichmann, you had better go to a magistrate and make a statement under oath?"

A. I did.

Q. Do you remember his replying to you, "I would take that course if I were not afraid of being indicted for perjury?"

A. He did make that remark to me, and I then asked him the particulars. He said if he had been let alone, and had been allowed to give his statement as he had wanted to, it would have been quite a different affair with Mrs. Surratt than what it was. In the first place, he said that when he came home and had a half-holiday, Mrs Surratt said it was a pleasant day

Mr. PIERREPONT. Never mind all that.

WITNESS. He said it would have been very different with Mrs. Surratt if he had been let alone.

Q. Did he say who troubled him?

A. Yes, sir; he said the parties who had charge of the military commission. Q. Did he say to you that he had been obliged to swear to the statement that had been prepared for him, and that he was threatened with prosecution for perjury-threatened with being charged as one of the conspirators unless he did?

A. Yes, sir; he did; that it was written out for him, and that he was threatened with prosecution as one of the conspirators if he did not swear to it. Q. Did he say to you anything about his having been told by a man that he had made the confessions or statements in his sleep?

A. Yes, sir. He said that a detective had been put into Carroll prison with him, and that this man had written out a statement which he said he had made in his sleep; and that he had to swear to that statement. I asked him why he swore to it when he knew it was not true? He said part of it was true, but not all the points that he could have given, if he had been let alone, were contained in it.

Q. It was on account of that statement that he wanted to go to confession— to relieve his conscience?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Did he tell you that on the 14th of April, 1865, the day of the assassination, Mrs. Surratt had told him that she wanted to go to see Mr Nothey on business, having received a letter from Calvert requiring her immediate attention; and that they had gone to Surrattsville, and when they found Mr. Nothey was not there, and that he and Mrs. Surratt had started to come home, when they met Mr. Jenkins, in turning around to see whom, the spring of the buggy was broken?

A. He didn't tell me the particular man, but he told me that if it had not been for some gentleman calling them back after they had started to Washington, Mrs. Surratt would not have seen Lloyd that day. He said further, that in turning round to go back, the spring of the buggy was broken; and that then it was they met Lloyd.

afternoon he

Q. Did he tell you that when Mrs. Surratt learned that had a half holiday, that she said she would like to go to Surrattsville, but did not know where to get a buggy, and that he then told her to send for Booth, and that she replied she did not know Booth was in town?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. He told you that he had suggested sending for Booth, and that she said. she did not know Booth was in town?

A. Yes, sir; and he further told me of the conversation that he had with Both when he went down after the buggy.

Mr. BRADLEY. There is no doubt about this being the man. (pointing to the witness Weichman.)

A. No, sir. I have met him frequently.

Cross-examined by Mr. PIERREPONT :

Q. Have you ever been examined before?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Where were you examined?

A. I was examined before Judge Olin, and then I was examined in the War Department. I do not know who they were who examined me.

Q. Was your examination taken down in writing?

A. It was, sir, I believe.

Q. Did you state any of these things then that you now state?

A. No, sir; because I had not had this conversation with Mr. Weichmann until after I got out of prison.

Q. Did this conversation take place in the prison?

A. No, sir.

Q. Where?

A. In the street.

Q. Where?

A. In a walk from Ford's theatre. He came up there after me.

We walked down past this building to a house at which I was to call, on C street, to see a family. We then went down to St. Aloysius church. When we got down there he went inside, and I sat down on the steps and waited until he came out. Q. Did he go to confession?

A. I do not know whether he did or not. I did not go in the church.

Q. Is confession customary in the Catholic church?

A. He is a member; he can tell you.

Q. I ask you.

A. I believe so.

Q. Don't you belong to that church?
A. I do.

Q. Does he too ?

A. I don't know. He says he does.

Q. I ask you whether confession is customary in the church?

A. It is, I believe.

Q. Was there anything in his manner that was excited at the time?

A. He got excited afterwards down in Dubant's saloon.

Q. Did he recite Shakspeare?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Hamlet?

A. Yes, sir; Hamlet's Soliloquy on Death.

Q. Were you alarmed at his state of mind? .

A. Not at all. I was alarmed at the statement made to me. I was astonished at any man making such a statement as that to me.

Q. It was very shocking?

A. Yes, sir; it was to me.

Q. When you were examined before, did you state anything about having stood up in front of the steps of the theatre at the time of the murder?

A. Judge Olin did not get as far as that with me. He got as far as six o'clock in the afternoon in my examination.

Q. Did not anybody get as far as that with you?

A. Never, in my examination.

Q. Didn't they get so far as to ask you where you were in the theatre all the time?

tre.

A. No, sir; they did during the day. I stated my business was in the thea

Q. Didn't they, in the examination at the War Department, get so far as to ask you where you were during the night of the assassination?

A. No, sir.

Q. Did Judge Olin, in the examination before him?

A. I do not think Judge Olin got as far as to ask me where I was at the time the assassination took place?

Q. Did they, at the examination at the arsenal?

A. No, sir.

Q. Then you were not, at any time until in your examination here, asked where you were at the time of the assassination?

A. No, sir.

Q. Have you stated that, on the evening of the assassination, for more than an hour before it, you were not in front of the theatre?

WITNESS. When and where?

Mr. PIERREPONT. Anywhere, on either of these examinations.

A. No, sir; never.

Q. Did you state so, in your examination at the War Department?
A. No, sir.

Q. Did you state so on your examination before Judge Olin ?

A. No, sir.

Q. Did you state so on your examination at the arsenal ?

A. No, sir.

Q. Have you had any other examinations?

A. None but here. The testimony I gave at the arsenal was in regard to Spangler. I have never read it or seen it Whether I did get as far as that in my examination, or whether any question was asked me about that, I do not now remember.

By Mr. BRADLEY:

Q. Have you seen your examination at the War Department?
A. No, sir.

Q. Was it ever shown to you at the time of your examination?

Mr. PIERREPONT said he was now examining the witness, and did not care to have him taken out of his hands in that manner.

The COURT said that when counsel had entered upon the examination of a witness he should be allowed to conclude that examination without interruption. Then, if there was anything that counsel on the other side desired to have explained, or any additional inquiries, the witness could be turned over to him. Only one counsel at a time, however, should be permitted to examine the witness. By Mr. PIERREPONT:

Q. Will you tell us what day of the month it was you had this walk with Mr. Weichmann?

A. I cannot exactly tell the date, but I can find it out in a very short time. Q. Can you tell the day of the week?

A. No, sir.

Q. Was the trial going on, or not?

A. No, sir; it was after the trial had closed.

Q. Weichmann told you that he had stated things that were not true?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. And that his conscience was terribly troubled about it?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. And that he wanted to make confession?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Did he tell you that he wanted you to aid him in any way in his confession? A. No, sir.

Q. You were in no way a priest, to receive confessions?

A. No, sir; never.

Q. What was your business?

A. My business was then, as now, costumer.

Q. Were you a religious and devout man at that time-I mean were you noted in that way, so as to lead him to talk to you?

Mr. MERRICK objected to the question. Objection overruled.

WITNESS. I decline to answer.

Q. When did you leave the city?

A. After the trial. I left the 25th of July.

Q. You did not leave until then?

A. No, sir.

Q. Where did you go?

A. To Baltimore.

Q. Was this conversation after you went to Baltimore, or before?

A. Before I went to Baltimore. I never saw that gentleman (Weichmann) after the execution until I met him here.

Q. Do you know when Weichmann left the city?

A. I do not. I avoided his company ever after that.

Q. Have you avoided it ever since?

A. I never met him afterward until I met him here the other day, when he shook hands with me.

Q. Why did you avoid his company?

A. I thought he was a dangerous man.

Q. That was the reason, was it not?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Was it on account of this confession made to you?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Did you invite the confession?

A. No, sir.

Q. It was wholly voluntary?

A. Yes, sir; wholly voluntary on his part.

Q. Had you ever been in such relations with him as to invite him to a religious confession of his guilt?

A. No, sir; never.

Q. Are you still connected with the theatre ?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. What side did you sympathize with in the war?

A. I did not sympathize with either. I was doing a business with a mixed population and I kept myself neutral.

Q. Where neutral?

A. In this city.

Q. You told us the other day that you were from New York.

A. No, sir; I told you I was from Boston.

Q. When I questioned you further didn't you tell me you were from New York?

A. You asked me if I was raised in Boston and I told you no, that I was raised in New York.

Q. When you were examined before the military did you say you were from Baltimore?

A. I was never asked the question.

Q. Well, you were born and raised in New York?

A. No, sir; I was born in Toronto, Canada.

Q. When did you come to the United States?

A. In 1845 with my family.

Q. During this war you did not sympathize with these rebels?

A. I did not sympathize with either side.

Q. You did not sympathize with the Union side?

A. With neither side.

Q. You felt wholly indifferent?

A. I sympathize with every one who is in trouble.

Q. You only sympathize with the side that happened to get beat?

A. No, sir: I did not sympathize with that.

Q. Did your sympathies change in the progress of the war from time to time?

A. No, sir; it was quite an indifferent matter to me.

Q. You didn't care which side succeeded?

A. No, sir; it did not make much difference to me.

Q. You did not care?

A. No, sir.

Q. You did not care whether the Union government was destroyed or not?

A. It didn't make any difference to me.

Q. And you didn't care whether the confederacy succeeded or not?

A. No, sir.

Q. And you didn't care which army was slaughtered?

A. Oh, yes, sir; I did care about that.

Q. Which army did you sympathize with?

A. I am opposed to war; I did not want to see either army slaughtered. Q. Were your sympathies with either army?

A. Neither.

Q. You didn't care for one more than the other?

A. No, sir.

Q. Are your feelings the same now as they were during the war?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. You were wholly indifferent to the safety or the ruin of the government ? WITNESS. Of the government?

Mr. PIERREPONT. Yes, sir.

WITNESS. Well, as I don't happen to be in any particular part of the government, merely doing business here as a foreigner, why I have no particular interest.

Q. Then you are a foreigner, are you?

A. Yes, sir; I was born in America, but not in the United States.

Q. Did you know of Weichmann going away?

A. No, sir.

Q. How long before this trial did you meet him in Washington?

A. Some time before the 4th of July.

Q. Of what year?

A. 1865.

Q. Had you been intimate with him?

A. I was intimate with him as long as we kept together-until I shunned

him, shook his society.

Q. Where did your intimacy begin?

A. In the penitentiary.

Q. When was that?

A. During the trial at the arsenal.

Q. When did your intimacy end-before or after the trial was over?

A. After.

Q. How long after?

A. I do not know how long.

Q. Your intimacy was pretty short?

A. It commenced in the month of May, and ended in the latter part of June.

Q. Do you feel friendly towards him?

A. I have no antipathies towards him at all.

Q. Do you feel hostile at all?