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Covell in relation to the matter; he asked me what time I thought it was told him the 13th and 14th.

Q. Did you tell Mr. Covell it was the 12th?

A. I think I did not.

Q. Did you tell him it was the 13th ?

A. I think I told him it was the 13th and 14th.
Q. Did you tell him it was the 12th or 13th?
A. I think I told him the 13th and 14th.
Q. Did you tell him it was the 12th and 13th?
A. I do not think I mentioned the 12th.

Q. Did you tell him it was the 13th or 14th?

A. I told him it was the 13th and 14th.

Q. That is the best of your recollection?

A. That is the best of my recollection.

Q. Have you any doubt that you told him that?

I

A. No, sir; I have no doubt that I told him that. Mr. Covell said to me that Mr. Knapp had said it was the 12th and 13th; I told him I had no recollection of it; that the only way I fixed the date was the date of entries in our petty cash book.

Q. Did your petty cash book have that date?

A. It shows that one of the proprietors of the store left in the afternoon of the 12th and returned on the 15th.

Q. What did you tell Mr. Covell about that petty cash book?

A. I told him that it showed Mr. Ufford left on the 12th; and I told him that this man came on the day after Mr. Ufford left for New York.

Q. Mr. Ufford left on the evening of the 12th and this man came the day after; did you tell Mr. Covell so?

A. I do not know that I told Mr. Covell these words; I had some such conversation with him.

Q. Did not you tell each of them the same thing?

A. I might.

Q. Did not you tell each of them that he called twice in one day?

A. No, sir.

Q. You are sure of that?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. That he called in the morning and afternoon?

A. No, sir.

Q. Did not you tell either of them that?

A. No, sir.

Q. Did not you tell either of them that he called the next day after Mr. Ufford left?

A. Yes, sir; I told them he called in the evening of the 13th.

Q. Did not you tell either of these men that he called the next day after Mr. Ufford left?

A. I think I told them he called on the afternoon of the 13th.

Q. How many times did you see these men?

WITNESS. See what men ?

Mr. PIERREPONT. Mr. Covell and Ufford.

A. When in Elmira I saw them almost every day.

Q. How many times did you talk with Mr. Covell about this? Do you remember more than once?

A. I think I did.

Q. When did you talk to him the second time?

A. I could not remember the date. It was on the Sunday after we returned from Washington. I could not fix the date exactly.

Q Did you tell him the same thing both times?

A. I do not remember.

The substance must have been the same.

Q. Did you see Mr. Knapp the second time?

A. I have seen him a uumber of times.

Q. Did you talk with him on these occasions?

A. I have talked with him.

Q. Did you see Roberts with him more than once?

A. I never saw Roberts more than once.

Q. Did you see some man that might be Roberts?

A. I saw some one man who I was told was a detective from Washington. Q. Did you see that man more than once?

A. I do not know.

By Mr. BRADLEY:

Q. Did you say you were asked any of these questions by Mr. Knapp when Mr. Roberts was present?

A. I never saw Mr. Roberts to identify him. I do not think that he was the man who stood outside of the doors.

By Mr. PIERREPONT:

Q. The man you think was a detective how many times did you see with Mr Knapp in Elmira ?

A. I never remember seeing him with Mr. Knapp.

Q. Did you see him with Mr. Knapp?

A. No, sir; I saw a man with Mr. Covell one evening, who I heard said was a detective from Washington.

Q. With Mr. Covell when Mr. Knapp was present?

(Question objected to by Mr. Bradley; who objected, further, that counsel went on asking questions after he objected.

The court said that whenever counsel objected, counsel on the other side should stop until the objection was disposed of.)

Q. Now, did you see with Mr. Covell a man you thought was a detective ? A. A man I was told was a detective. I did not think so. I saw that man with him.

Q. Did you talk with Mr. Covell when you saw that man you were told was a detective?

A. I saw he was standing in the hotel; I said good evening, or something of that kind. The man was not with him then.

Q. Did you have a conversation upon the subject of the time you saw the man who you thought might be Surratt when the man you were told was a detective was present?

A. No, sir.

Q. Now, will not you tell us whether you saw Covell after you came from Washington the first time?

A. Yes, sir; I saw him after I came back.

Q. Did you see him while here the first time?

A. Covell was not here when I was at Washington. No, sir.

Q. Did you see him and talk with him after your return?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. After you came here the first time did you see the prisoner?

A. Yes, sir; in jail.

Q. After you saw the prisoner did you talk with Covell about him?

A. I think he asked me if I identified him. I said he was the same man I

saw.

Q. Did you not tell Covell you could not identify him?

A. No, sir.

Q. That you are sure of?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Did not you tell him so at that time?

A. No; neither then nor any other time.

Q. Did you tell either Mr. Covell, Mr. Knapp, or Mr. Roberts that not identify him?

you could

A. I did not. I never spoke to Roberts. I did not tell that to either of

them.

Q. Do you remember whether there was any particular fasting on the day the President was murdered?

A. I remember that it was Good Friday.

Q. Where did you go on Good Friday?

A. I was at work, or at least I went to the store. The store was closed up during the day after the assassination.

Q. Closed on the 14th on the day of the assassination?

A. On the day after the assassination.

QI have not asked you about that. I asked you about the 14th, the day of the assassination.

A. I do not think it was; it may have been.

Q. At what time was it closed on the 14th?

A. As soon as the assassination was announced every store was closed?

Q. At what time was it announced on the 14th ?

A. It was not announced on the 14th.

Q. At what time on the 14th was the store closed?

A. It was not closed on the 14th. I think I have answered that. At any rate I now answer it was not.

Q. At what time on the 14th did you go to the store?

A. I cannot remember the hour. My hours vary.

Q. Did you go to church on the 14th, Good Friday, at all.

A. I think not.

In case the store was

Q. And you cannot tell what time you went to the store? A. I do not remember distinctly what time I went. closed, or otherwise, I went to the store.

Q. Do you remember whether the store was closed on Good Friday?

A. I remember the stores were closed on the morning when the assassination was announced.

Q. Do you understand my question?

time on the 14th it was closed?

I ask you if you can tell us at what

A. It was not closed on the 14th that I remember.

Q. At what time was it first opened?

A. I do not know. I did not go there as early as that.

Q. At what time did you get your dinner that day?

A. I suppose I got it at my residence or dwelling.

Q. And you say, on the 13th a man came in there who, you think, was the prisoner?

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A. I told him we had not the goods he spoke of yesterday; Mr. Ufford was in New York, and that it was quite likely the following day we would have the goods he was inquiring about. He came in the second time and I told him the goods were not in the store; might be at the depot.

Q. Mr. Ufford went on the night of the 12th and on the 13th you told him you thought they might come?

A. I told him I thought they might come the following day. At that time we were hurried, and he sent certain things by express. I thought they might have come through in one day to Elmira.

Q. Did any of his goods get there on the 14th?

A. They did not get there on the 14th.

Q. You say he called in on the 14th. What did he say?

A. He inquired if those goods had come. I said they had not.

Q. What goods ?

A. The goods he was inquiring for the day before.

Q. At what time in the day did he come in the last time?

A. It was in the forenoon, in the morning I may say.

Q. Was anybody else in the store?

A. I do not know whether there was or not.

Q. How long did he stay?

A. He only stayed a little while.

Q. Do you know which way he came from?

A. He appeared as though he came from Water street.

Q. Do you know which way he returned?

A. He seemed to return the same way.

Q. Did you see him on that day afterwards?

A. No, sir.

Q. Did you see him on the 14th?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. You say you saw him on the 14th. You are sure about that?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. You never told any person that you could not recognize him?

A. I never told any person I could not recognize him.

Q. How long did you talk with him on the 14th?

A. On the 14th I talked with him very little. I was very busy cutting. Q. Did he call twice on the 13th ?

(Question objected to by Mr. Bradley as having been already answered. Objection sustained.)

Q. Did you tell either of these gentlemen that you asked him if his name was not Surratt?

A. No, sir; I could not have told them that, for I did not know who he was. Q. I ask you if you did not tell them that?

A. I did not tell them anything of the sort.

Q. You did not tell either of these men that you asked this gentleman if his name was not Surratt, and he said it was?

A. No, sir.

Q. You did not tell them that was the reason you knew it was him?

A. No, sir; I was in the store at the time acting as clerk and waiting on them.

Q. You did not tell either of them, after your return, that you were mistaken about it?

A. No, sir.

Q. When did you first hear his name was Surratt?

A. I heard it a little while before we came down here. I do not remember

how many days.

Q There was nothing suspicious about the man you saw there?

A. No; I should think not.

Q. He did not excite any suspicion in your mind?

A. Not at all. I thought he was a Canadian when he first came in.

Q. You never thought much about the matter, it not being one that awakened your suspicions?

A. No, I should never have thought of it again if my attention had not been called to it in connection with this case,

Q. Did you tell either of these gentlemen the man said he was a southerner? A. I did.

Q. Did you then tell them that you asked him if his name was Surratt? A. I did not ask the man such a thing. I simply asked him if he was a southerner, and he said he was.

Q. Did you tell anybody that you asked him if his name was Surratt?
A. I never knew he was Surratt until lately.

By Mr. BRADLEY:

Q. You say he came to your store from the direction of Water street. there any hotel on that street?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. What was the name of it?

Was

A. The Brainard House, or the Rathburn. The hotel is owned by Mr. Rathburn, I think.

Q. How far is it from the store of Ufford & Stewart !

A. I suppose a block and a half. I do not know exactly the distance. I am not good at distances.

Q. Not very far off.

A. No, sir.

Q. You have been asked a great many questions about Major Foster. You see him sitting by Judge Pierrepont. Now do you know him?

A. I saw him in the cars.

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Q. Did you know who Major Roberts was. Did you ever hear of him before? A. No, sir.

Q. Was he the one pointed out to you as the detective from Washington? A. I saw a man in Elmira who was pointed out to me as such.

Q. Have you seen him since.

A. I saw him last evening. I was told he was a detective. I do not know whether he was the man. Mr. Covell told me there was a man by the name of Roberts at Elmira, a detective.

Q. Did you have any conversation with Knapp or Mr. Covell after you left to come here, or since you arrived.

A. Yes, sir.

Q Was there anything said to you on the subject of your testimony!

A. Something yesterday. Mr. Knapp, referring to the question, asked me whether this man was a tailor; said he must have misunderstood me; that he supposed that was the way in which I got acquainted with Surratt; that he understood it in that way. I do not know that I can use his precise words. I know that in my business I get acquainted with customers very easily in waiting upon them. He subt he must have misunderstood me.

Q. Have either of these parties been following you up in Elmira since you have been summoned as a witness?

A. A great many persoas have been asking me questions since then.
Q. There or here!

A. There more particularly. Persons who would come into the store where I was curting and ask this, that, and the other

Q. In talking with them did you undertake to go into minute statements, or when you were engaged in your business did you casually sunk Dout them! A. When I was engaged in business. I could not pay much attention to the conversation going on.

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