much mistaken, if the conftitution would not furvive them both. In replying to his obfervations on the intention of making the Land Tax perpetual, and rendering fome tax that was permanent annual, the Right Honourable Gentleman, with his accustomed loftinefs of tone, had afked, has not the Honourable Gentleman yet become fufficiently acquainted with the hiftory of Parliament, to know, that almost every feffion there is fome tax repealed, in order that another may be impofed, while yet the faith of Parliament, as pledged to the public creditor, remains untouched. It was true, the daily experience of Gentlemen had taught them, that tax-laws were frequently repealed, and as for himself, he could not have been fo long in the habits of hearing the Right Honourable Gentleman without hearing alfo of repeals. The Right Honourable Gentleman had, indeed, a knack of turning about with uncommon agility, from one fide of a measure to another, and without being fingularly pliant in his difpofition, he yielded with great readiness to attempts at repealing a tax, provided a fubititute was as readily approved of. But he was by no means ready to admit that the prefent was a cafe, which in its nature at all affimilated to that other mentioned by the Right Honourable Gentleman. If indeed the confolidated fund had produced a furplus, the Right Honourable Gentleman might do with it what he pleafed, but certain he was, that that fund did not then do more than barely meet the charge upon it. He would ask then, whether, if in this fituation, it would be right to render annual what had always been confidered perpetual, and on the good faith of which refted the confidence of the public creditor? Would it be faid, that 2,4000,000l. of the confolidated fund could be directed for the purpose of promoting this fcheme without injuring public credit? It would be a violation of the faith of Parliament, and he could not admit that the propofed appropriation of the confolidated fund would be any check on the influence of the crown, until the Right Honourable Gentleman had fhewn that there was a furplus. In fine, from every view he could then haftily take of the fubject, he was in his own mind perfuaded that the inconvenience arifing to public credit now, from any excefs of funded capital, would not be remedied, but it would injure the public moft cruelly and unjustly.

Lord Sheffield faid, it was true he had not troubled the Committee with his argument, and the reafon was, that as it had been fuggefted, that the meafure would come before the Houfe in a more comprehenfive manner on Wednesday, he had referved himfelf for that occafion Notwithstanding the powers of the Right Honourable Gentleman's cloquence, he had not during

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during the time he was in Parliament, altered his opinion of any measure which in his mind he had thought impolitic; and however he might be accufed of warmth, he could not concede it to any man that it was in his nature to be petulantly warm, or in habits of entertaining animofity towards any one.

Mr. H. Browne conceived that the measure had every appearance of producing the most falutary effects, and was furprifed to hear Honourable Gentlemen affert it would be of injurious tendency. The terms propofed, inftead of bearing hard on the landholders, appeared to him to be, in fact, too advantageous. They were not compulfory, and whether the landholders would accept them or not was entirely at their own option. The inability of landlords to avail themselves of the advantage held out to them, he could not admit. Their fituation was not fo melancholy as ftated. In the American war land fell down as low as 22 years purchase; there was befides every symptom of decay in every other fpecics of property; but now, with all our taxes, and notwithstanding all our difficulties and dangers, it was at 28. Rents had not fallen, nay, in fome inftances they had rifen, fo that the landed intereft had been very flightly injured. Landholders, therefore, had it in their power to avail themfelves of the proffered terms, which, he repcated, were very advantageous. And as to the funds, he would maintain, that it was impoffible but they must rife when the number of fellers were fewer, and of buyers more, which would be an effect produced by this Bill. He apologized for troubling the Committee, which, he faid, he was induced to do, that the affertion of the Honourable Gentleman might not go out into the world uncontradicted, being determined to referve himfelf for fome future opportunity.

Sir Benjamin Hammett confidered it a mistaken opinion, that the country was driven to the phyfical neceffity of raifing the fupplies within the year. He knew the country had the ability to do it, and the exertion was worthy of a nation oppofing the progrefs of a ferocious enemy. He did not, nevertheless, think the prefent a politic meafure in every point of view; and, inftead of taking ftock in payment of the Land Tax, he wished the Chancellor of the Exchequer had propofed that it should be paid for in hard cash. But while he threw out this hint, he was far from offering any oppofition to a further increase of the Land Tax; he already paid 500l. towards it, and would pay double that fum to promote the welfare and provide for the defence of the country.

Sir William Pulteney was willing to agree that it was highly proper that a fufficient delay fhould intervene between the proposal of the plan now fubmitted to the House and its ultimate

difcuffion

difcuffion, for it was of a magnitude and importance that called for a minute enquiry into its merits or defects, which inquiry could not be duly gone into without the fubject having been fully and maturely examined. But though the prefent might not be the fittest moment for entering into that difcuffion, he faw no impropriety in any Gentleman's throwing out fuch objections to the plan, as, from the first view of it, might strongly prefs upon his mind, and this was the line of conduct which he himself was defirous to purfue; for though he would referve the greater part of what he had to offer on the fubject till after he had more strictly fcrutinized it, he would, in the mean time, exprefs what was the impreffion which the fpeech of the Right Honourable Gentleman, who opened the bufinefs, had immediately made upon his mind. And, in the first place, he was very far from agreeing with that Right Honourable Gentleman, that the measure now propofed by him would, if carried into execution, be attended with very beneficial effects, in relieving the prefent exigencies of the country, and adding to the refources which it required, in order to carry on with vigour and effect the arduous conteft in which we were engaged. In his opinion, it would be attended with confequences of a totally contrary nature; nor would he hcfitate to declare, that, by adopting the plan now proposed to the Committee by the Chancellor of the Exchequer, that Right Honourable Gentleman. was going to make a very bad bargain for the country, which, far from promoting, would tend to defeat the very objects he had in view. From what he had been able to collect from the fpeech in which the plan was explained to the Committee, it did not appear to him as if the Right Honourable Gentleman had viewed and taken in all the fides of it-it was a plan, indeed, which feemed to have much of fplendour and magnificence in it, and this magnificence might acquire an additional fwell from the powerful eloquence with which the Right Honourable Gentleman was in the habit of unfolding his plans to the House, but, however it might appear magnificent in its outline, it would not, on a deeper examination, prove to be very folid. There was a variety of topics, which, on a future occafion, he would touch on, and have difcuffed; but he was now bold to fay, that the refult of the plan was to fell a perpetual 5 per cent. He could not believe that the Right Honourable Gentleman would have ever thought it reasonable to propofe to Parliament to raise money by a perpetual 5 per cent. for furely this mode of raifing money differed in nothing from rai..ng money by a 5 per cent. ftock; it was even doubtful to him whether stocks would experience any rife by any quantity of stock being redeemed by this measure: focks were as low during the American war, as 5 C2

they

they were now, yet our capital was not then fo great; it might be faid, but he would not believe it, that the wealth of the nation had fince been doubled; but be that as it may, it was his opinion that the amount of capital did not influence the price of stocks; it was by the greater or less proportion of confidence repofed by the public in the fecurity of Government, that the ftate of flocks was raifed or depreffed; they had nothing at all to do with the amount of capital; but for the prefent he had only to repeat, that the plan now propofed went to raise money on the very extraordinary terms of a perpetual 5 per cent.-it was therefore proper, that fufficient time should be given to the Houfe thoroughly to examine the nature and tendency of this new and momentous measure, nor could he approve of the extraordinary precipitancy of the Honourable Gentleman (Mr. H. Browne), who found every thing right and laudable in the meafure, though he had heard its merits difcuffed and defcanted on only by the Right Honourable Gentleman who had just propofed it to the House.

The Chancellor of the Exchequer profeffed himself ready to improve his plan by any hints which might hereafter be thrown out by the worthy Baronet, or any other Honourable Member; but at prefent he could not help exprefling fome furprise at the measure being found objectionable, as borrowing money by a perpetual 5 per cent. Surely the obfervation of the Worthy Baronet, that this was borrowing money at an higher rate than was ever proposed to Parliament, muft appear an observation unworthy the acuteness and financial knowledge ufually difplayed by the Worthy Baronet. For this would be the cafe only while the stocks were at 50. The remainder of the Land Tax would bear a different price, in proportion as flocks might atterwards rife. There was no question of a nominal 5 per cent. nor could it be proved that fo heavy a burden had not ever been entailed on the country; for borrowing money at prefent in the 3 per cent. would be entailing a perpetual 6 per cent. annuity on the nation; as to the quantity of stock not influencing its price, furely this was not confiftent with common obfervation, for the quantity of flocks, like that of every other commodity, muft cateris paribus, more or less determine its price.

The Chairman then reported progrefs, and the Committee was ordered to fit again on Wednesday the 4th inft.

DEFENCE OF THE COUNTRY BILL.

On the question being put for the third reading of this Bill, Mr. Nicholls rofe. He faid, that if in no former ftage of the Bill he had not given it oppofition, it was because he had confidered it was folely meant as a measure to enable his Majefty more effectually to provide for the fafety of the country.

On

On the fubject of danger the Minifter was better informed than he could be, and to the giving the Crown the additional power afforded by this Bill, he could have no objection, if ufed exclufively for the protection of this country; but if under its authority, and relying on the additional force it was probably capable of bringing into the field, the regular regiments were fent to Ireland to keep up there the hellifh fpirit of coercion, which had long and fatally difgraced its Government, he would not give it his affent; he would do any thing rather to restore that unhappy country to tranquillity, convinced as he was in his own mind, that to perfevere in coercion were to fever Ireland from the empire, and whatever it was that did fo would be the deftruction of this country. In America, the firmness of the people had oppofed an impregnable barrier to the encroachments of a coercing Government, and the iffue of that conteft taught the world that fix millions of people fighting for their liberties were not to be awed into fubjection by coercive meafures. The Irith, like the Americans, were ftruggling to affert their invaded rights, and maintain the dignity of their infulted, oppreffed country. Coercion would not do. Minif

ters must abandon the fyftem. And for himself, though friendly to Parliamentary Reform, and anxioufly defirous of peace, he confidered even the attainment of these great national benefits inferior in immediate importance to the reftoration of tranquillity in Ireland.

[Here Mr. Ryder faid, that any difcuffion of the affairs of Ireland would be totally irregular on a question fuch as that then before the Houfe.]

The Speaker obferved, that as long as the Honourable Member (Nicholls) confined himself to the original line of argument, which was, that if intended to defend this country, he would not oppose the measure, but if meant to enable Minifters to fend troops to Ireland, there to propagate a fyftem which he thinks coercive, he would oppofe it, he would be perfectly in order, but it would be diforderly to enter into a general ftatement of the American war, and the conduct of former Minifters. The Honourable Gentleman muft, therefore, keep to his original line of argument, or, by abandoning it, oblige him to interrupt him.

Mr. Nicholls faid, he believed he had been perfectly in order. The Bill contained a grant of additional powers. If those powers were wanted for one purpose, viz. the defence of the realm, he affented to the grant: if they were wanted for another purpose, viz. the coercion of Ireland, he thought it his duty to refift the demand. The King had loft fix millions of fubjects in America by the folly of former Minifters, who had endavoured