HOUSE OF LORDS. STATEMENT RESPECTING IRELAND. Earl Moira." I confider it as a misfortune that I did not attend this House on Thursday laft. My Lords, I voluntarily abftained from coming down, though with regard to every pofition laid down by the Noble Duke, as to what he ima gined to be the fource of our prefent calamities, I perfectly agree with him. I confider it however now, My Lords, I repeat, as a misfortune, that I did not attend the difcuffion on Thursday laft; because, if I had attended, I might have prevented your Lordships the trouble of attending upon this day. A ftatement has appeared in the public papers, and I have heard it faid by fome perfons, as if a Noble Lord had carried his readiness to contradict the positions I had laid down with refpect to Ireland, and as if he poffeffed facts upon which to ground that contradiction. Such a circumftance was, I muft confefs, rather unexpected by me; for after I had been to Ireland for the exprefs purpose of reafferting what I had before ftated to your Lordships, in a place where the documents I poffeffed could have been fairly examined; where I declared that I was ready to have brought the deponents to the bar to bear evidence to the truth of thefe documents; after such a conclufion, I muft fay I did not expect that any thing would have been stated in this Houfe to question my affertions. I muft trouble your Lordships to recollect what it was I did affert, and I fhall then proceed to ftate how thofe affertions were fupported. I did affert that the lights were put out at a certain hour by the peafantry; that that order was enforced with extreme feverity, and I quoted a particular inftance. What had happened in one cafe, I had a right to affume had happened in others. I ftated that the torture, I mean picketing and half-hanging, had been employed to procure confeffions or rather charges against the tortured perfons' neighbours. I further ftated, that houfes had been burnt, wantonly and unneceffarily burnt in prodigious numbers. I repeated those ftatements in the Houfe of Lords of Ireland, where, if they could have been contradicted, they might have been with effect. I had upwards of one hundred affidavits to prove the exceffes committed, which affidavits I have now brought down with me. I had deponents ready to be brought to the bar of the Houfe to give evidence of the truth of what I afferted. I stated, that I had reafons for not entering into the fhocking detail, unless I fhould be forced fo to do in order to fupport my affertions. In the wretched state of the country, it was incumbent on me, my my Lords, to avoid, as much as poffible, adding to the general exafperation. The fame inducement muft plead for me in the prefent cafe. I therefore fhall reftrict myself, unless I am reduced to the neceffity of doing otherwife, to this proof. If no Noble Lord fhall make it neceffary for me to read those documents, I will not read them, and I will content myself with putting them into the hands of the Noble Lord upon the woolfack as foon as the Houfe rifes. But if, my Lords, I am forced to read them, I must stand exculpated from all the confequences. But let this be recollected-I decidedly fay, that in a queftion fo material to the public interefts as this, which affects the paffions of all, no peer has a right to ftand forward and contradict me upon loofe conjecture and unconfirmed evidence. I ftated that I was ready to prove my affertions. Whoever, therefore, contradicts me, must not expect to do it upon eafier terms than I impose upon myself. A Noble Lord's fpeech, but I know it is not fair to ftate it upon loose report; however, I have heard that that fpeech did imply his Lordfhip's being able to contradict what I had ftated. I have already faid, that it is not fair that I fhould rely entirely upon what has been faid in the public prints. I therefore now afford an opportunity to that Noble Lord to rife and state what he meant to advance." The Marquis of Downfhire." It would give me, my Lords, great fatisfaction not to have this fubject agitated; I think that the agitating of it here can be productive of no good; but I am ready to meet the Noble Lord upon it. I am fure he has no evil intentions, and no wish to exafperate; I impute to him no ill motives, but I do fay that his judgment or his zeal have led him too far. I am ready to admit that the army in Ireland, compofed in a great degree of new and raw levies, may have been guilty of exceffes, but I will maintain that these exceffes never were by order of Government, and that Government never defended nor protected the army in them. The Noble Earl himfelf has been employed in America, and he muft know the difficulty of reftraining the ardour and zeal of his troops; he must recollect how the oppofition prints of those days condemned his army, for what they called their atrocious conduct and cruelties; he cannot forget the expreffions of those prints with respect to the execution of Colonel Haynes. My Lords, I was called upon particularly on Thurf day night laft, and on account of this day's debate I deplore that I was. I was in Ireland myfelf nine months laft year, in the very heart of the rebellion. I faw and heard what paffed. I affifted myself day and night. I was one of the first who fhewed the neceffity, and I spoke it to the world, of proclaiming claiming the County of Down a measure productive of the moft beneficial confequences. I faid that great numbers of the United Irishmen held forth reform and Catholic emancipation as mere stalking horfes. I repeat it. I never found a pa pift of understanding, and who had any knowledge of the world, who did wish for emancipation. I never yet knew a Prefbyterian of a liberal education who wifhed for a Radical Reform. It has been urged that the curfew was tolled through the kingdom. My Lords, it was tolled in the proclaimed diftricts. The proclaiming of diftricts was for the purpose of protecting the peaceable and well-difpofed. When I offered myfelf to the notice of your Lordships the other day, I lamented my abfence at the time the Noble Earl made his Motion refpecting Ireland. I have in my hand, and I will read a real statement of the trade of Ireland, which formed a feature of the Noble Earl's fpeech upon that occafion. He particularly alluded to the trade of Belfast, which I have always looked upon as the feat and foul of the rebellion; but the customs and excise of that place have not fallen in any confiderable degree. In 1795, the greatest amount was 110,000l. the whole decrease upon an average of eight years, which I take to be a fair average, does not exceed 70731. But in other places a great increase will be found; Beltaft and Cork are the only places where the cuftoms have fallen; but in Dublin the increase has been above 8oool. in Irick above 8000l. in Newry above 700l. in Waterford above 1,700l. The principal reafon why the amount of the cuftoms of Belfast has decreased, has been the annihilation of the importation of rum. The statement which I have thus laid before your Lordfhips is, I fhould think, rather cheering and comfortable, than affording room for despondence. Another ftrong proof of the increase of the trade is the very confiderable increase of the tonnage. From the year 1790 to 1797, the increase has been 17,875 tons. I confess myself extremely anxious, my Lords, upon this fubject. "With refpect to the military, I am ready to admit, that there has been more misbehaviour than any well wisher to Government can juftify. But it has not been by the approbation of the Government; nor is it imputable to the officers, employed by Government. I have had the pleasure of affording affiftance to General Lake often. He is a man of the ftricteft honour, of cool judgment, a perfectly steady and good officer. He has applied himself to the true interefts of his country, and he is respected by all. I am forry, my Lords, for fuch misbehaviour of the troops, but they have had great provocations. A foldier is but a man, and has the paffions of one. A regiment had been irritated to commit exceffes; they were fenfible of their mis conduct conduct they made a public avowal of it and of their contrition; and their determination never to commit any more, The printers threw the paper into the streets. I am not entering into a defence of fuch conduct; they certainly did destroy the prefs and the office; but is this to be imputed to Government ? I have brought forward feveral foldiers myself who had misbehaved, and I am happy to fay they acknowledged their error. The Noble Earl has affidavits of the misconduct of the military: for one affidavit that he has of the misbehaviour of the foldiers, I could produce 20 affidavits of the exceffes of the United Irishmen. My Lords, I have already faid, and I repeat my affertion, that I am ready to admit the exceffes of which the army have been guilty; but have no instances occurred of their having been punished for those irregularities? It was faid very properly by Lord Blayney, that the foldiers never did any thing without being amenable to Courts Martial. With refpect to myfelf, I ought to make an apology to your Lordfhips for faying any thing; but confpiracy has been formed against my life: the perfon is now in Dunfarline gaol, and is to be fent to Botany Bay. So fatisfied were the Jury of his guilt, that all the eloquence and abilities of his counfel could not fave him. No apprehenfions, however, of perfonal danger shall make me flinch from my duty. I agree with the Noble Lord, who faid, that affaffination had been the lot of many who dared to manifest sentiments hoftile to those who wished the deftruction of the Government. But I will not be deterred from doing what I conceive to be right. cafe the Noble Earl proceeds, I must go on; but I trust he will not conceive it to be neceffary. In Earl Moira faid, the Noble Marquis had exonerated him from the neceffity of entering into any detail refpecting the authenticity of the affidavits. He was proceeding to make fome obfervations refpecting the fyftem of coercion, when he was called to order by Lord Caernarvon, who faid, that the fubject was of a delicate nature, and improper to be further dwelt upon. The Noble Earl had brought forth affertions which he had not. taken the trouble to examine. It was not because he had brought down an hundred affidavits which might, perhaps, be contradicted by twice as many more, that the truth of them was to be taken for granted. It was, however, highly impolitic that the fubject should be continued. Earl Moira faid, as any further explanation was rendered unneceffary by what had been admitted, he should not trouble their Lordships with any further obfervations; he fhould content himself with putting into the hands of the Noble Lord on the the Woolfack thofe documents on which he had founded his affertion. From them it would evidently appear that the exceffes committed in Ireland were not thofe cafual accidental exceffes of the troops which Government could ftand juftified for not having punished, but that, on the contrary, they were exceffes attended with every degree of aggravation. The Duke of Athol called the Noble Earl to order; he faidthere was no queftion before the Houfe. It was merely an explanation in confequence of the statements of the Noble Earl having on a former night been difputed. He thought it wholly improper that the papers the Noble Lord had brought down. with him for the purpofe of fatisfying their Lordships of the exiftence of the facts ftated, fhould be left with the Chancellor, he should therefore move that the Houfe do adjourn. Lord Carlisle expreffed himself to the fame effect. Earl Moira faid, as it was not competent in him to move to lay the papers on the table, he wished they fhould be left with the Noble Lord on the Woolfack. Their Lordships would find that on a question, where the most direct Lord Grenville interrupted Earl Moira. He fubmitted whether it was poffible for the House to permit the affidavits to be depofited in the manner defired by the Noble Earl. [There was a general cry of No, no. The Queftion of Adjournment was loudly called for, and the Houfe immediately adjourned.] HOUSE OF COMMONS. Cirencester Roads, Hythe Paving, Reydon and Gifleham Inclofures' Bills, were read a third time and paffed. Mr. Dundas faid, that there had been a doubt entertained refpecting the power given to his Majefty, by an Act of laft Seffion, to call out the Supplementary Militia of cotland. It was doubted, whether his Majefty could call out a lefs number than the whole 6000 of them. For his part, he entertained no doubt upon the fubject; but as others thought otherwife, he thould move for leave to bring in a Bill to explain that Act, by empowering his Majefty to call out any proportion of them.-Leave given.-Adjourned. HOUSE OF LORDS. The Bills on the table went through their refpective ftages. Adjourned. No. 20. ** 4 T HOUSE |