I think that covers practically all the counties of the State. Now was there any other features, Senator Jones?

Senator JONES of New Mexico. Why, we have a compilation made of the homestead entries, etc., for New Mexico, made by the attorney for this committee. Mr. Bowden, have you that data? I would like to have that put into the record along with what Congressman Morrow has put in.

(The compilation presented by Mr. Bowden for the record is here printed in full, as follows:)

Public and Indian lands entered each year ending June 30, 1918

1920

1921

Number applications to make homestead entry, fiscal years 1920

1924:

6, 199 5,927

Number and area of homestead entries of public land allowed, 1921–1924

State desert land segregations under section 4 of act of Aug. 18, 1894:

Remaining segregated July 1, 1923, and July 1, 1924___.
Action from passage of act to June 30, 1924—

Applied for..

Rejected before segregation.

Segregation

Canceled

Patented_.

104

10, 164

2,600

7,604

2,757

4, 743

Senator JONES of New Mexico. Have you got the area of these different counties, or has anyone computed that?

Representative MORROW. As to their filings this year?

Senator JONES of New Mexico. No; as to the total area of the counties mentioned.

Representative MORROW. No; I have not.

Senator JONES of New Mexico. I don't suppose anyone has compiled that?

Governor Hagerman has just handed me a tabulation showing the approximate number of acres in the different counties and also the number of acres on the tax rolls in 1919, together with a general statement regarding the untaxable lands of the State. And I believe that this whole document would be valuable if it were put into the record. Do you think so, Governor?

Mr. H. J. HAGERMAN. Yes; I think so, Senator.

Senator JONES of New Mexico. If there is no objection, I will put that in the record. Governor Hagerman is connected with the tax commission of the State and has devoted a great deal of time to the study of tax matters, and I assume that that was the occasion for the preparation of this statement.

(The statement presented by Mr. Hagerman is here printed in full in the record, as follows:)

[Extract from Report of Special Revenue Commission (1920), pages 157-160]

UNTAXABLE LANDS

In view of the efforts made by Governor Larrazolo to secure the cession to the State of all or a large part of the public domain within New Mexico, the following figures will be of interest.

The area of New Mexico is 122,634 square miles, of which 131 square miles must be deducted for water courses, leaving a land area of 122,503 square miles, or 78,401,920 acres.

The vacant public domain unreserved and unappropriated on July 1, 1919, was 18,785,723 acres. This land is, of course, not taxed, being property of the United States. In addition, during the past five years, 9,002,634 acres have been files upon but probably not yet patented and therefore not taxable. Of the vacant public domain of 18,785,723 acres there are 4,752,575 acres still unsurveyed

The total acreage within national forests is 9,486,806, of which 8,294,222 acres belong to the Government, the remainder being apparently in private ownership or reserved for some other purposes. Indian reservations cover 4,543,692 acres and national monuments 23,000 acres. It will thus be seen that 31,646,637 acres constitute the Federal Government's public domain and reservations. To this amount we may add 9,002,634 acres of public domain filed upon but not patented, bringing the total acreage exempt from taxation up to 40,649,271.

The State received in various grants from the Federal Government 12,406,027 acres, of which 2,634,664 acres have been sold to individuals, leaving 9,771,363 mores still in the ownership of the State and not subject to taxation. With this amount added we have a grand total of 50,420,634 acres which the State may Dot tax. The land purchased from the State and taxed at 40 per cent of its purchase price amounts to 2,517,392 acres, Thus we arrive at an estimate of the acreage which should be upon the tax rolls of 25,463,894. As a matter of fact we find upon the tax rolls for 1919 a total of approximately 22,500,000 Apparently, therefore, about 3,000,000 acres are not accounted for. To show the situation by counties the following figures are submitted, though they are in many cases only estimates:

43213-25-PT 13—3

An effort to verify these figures by information obtained from county assessors brought replies from four counties only-Colfax, Dona Ana, Torrance, and Quay. The questions asked were such as should have been readily answered if assessors had any sort of a check on lands within their respective counties. There is here found, undoubtedly, a serious defect in our taxation system in that it is impossible to secure exact information as to lands not upon the tax rolls. We are unable to account for 3,000,000 acres. Perhaps there are Government withdrawals, Indian allotments, military reservations, rights of way, city and town sites, or other tracts exempt for some reason or another that are a part of this acreage; but we have no definite information, nor is there any method for securing such information except in a comparatively few counties. Under a centralized system of administration such as this commission recommends it will be possible to secure the installation of adequate land checks in all counties. It may be found necessary to provide for surveys through cooperation between the State and the various counties in order to determine the exact situation. Two of the State departments-the State tax commission and the commissioner of public lands-would be interested in such surveys which would be primarily necessary in counties in which the large land grants lie.

Reverting to the cession of all or part of the public domain to the State, it may be found impossible to induce the Congress of the United States to agree to the proposal at all. In that event certain concessions should be sought. In the case of Federal aid for road construction the Government might contribute $3 for each dollar contributed by the State for any project. Such a provision is incorporated in the Chamberlain bill now in Congress to aid future road construction. Other grants of Federal aid on the basis of cooperation might be made on a more liberal basis than that used in other States, where the public domain and other exempt areas are negligible. Grants of land might be made to the State for certain specified purposes, or other plans might be put into effect whereby the State should receive compensation for the loss of revenue because of the large exempt areas.

It should be noted that there is a small return to the State from the handling of public lands, a payment to the permanent common-school fund being made of 5 per cent of the proceeds of the United States land sales. In 1916 this amounted to $3,155.65; in 1917, $1,664.25; in 1918. $2,580.12; in 1919, $1,496.98; in 1920, $1,791.54; a total of five years of $10,688.54.

In connection with this subject the following data for the Government fiscal year ending June 30, 1919, with reference to Federal administration of forests in New Mexico will be of interest:

1. Net area of national forests in New Mexico, 8,294,222 acres.

2. Number of employees in National Forest Service in New Mexico, 135.

3 Total expense to Federal Government in administering the national forests in New Mexico:

4. Total amount spent for roads and trails in national forests in New Mexico;

Total amount spent to January 1, 1920 (Federal funds only)----- $279, 214. 07 Total to be expended calendar year 1920 (Federal funds only). 435, 283. 81

714, 497.88

5. Total revenue derived from national forests in New Mexico, fiscal year ending June 30, 1919, $352.794.20.

6 Amount paid to State of New Mexico from national forests revenue in New Mexico, fiscal year ending June 30, 1919:

Act including school sections---

Reads and schools (25 per cent item) ----

$20, 091. 49

84, 661. 05

104, 752.54

Senator JONES of New Mexico. I understand that a list has been made of people who would like to be heard, and I am inclined to the belief that we ought to get these statements that they have in mind, and then take up the questions more in detail later.

Senator CAME: ON. Mr. Victor Culberson, will you take the stand? STATMENT OF VICTOR CULBERSON, SILVER CITY, N. MEX., CATTLE

BUSINESS

Senator CAMERON (presiding). Will you give your name, your residence, and your occupation to the reporter, please?

Mr. CULBERSON. Victor Culberson, Silver City, N. Mex., cattle business.

Senator CAMERON. Mr. Culberson, do you have a statement that you wish to make to the committee?

Mr. CULBERSON. Well, I have, gentlemen; but I think that the thing has been pretty well covered by our president, Mr. O'Donel, relative to the national forest, also the public domain.

Senator CAMERON. Well, we would like to have your views.
Mr. CULBERSON. I think he covered the situation fairly well this

morning.

Senator JONES of New Mexico. As preliminary to that, Mr. Culbron. I wish you would state where your home is, and how long you have lived there, and what business you have engaged in, and your familiarity with the subject matter.

Mr. CULBERSON. I live in Silver City. I am in the cattle business, having been there occupying these properties since '82. And