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It was not out of any disrespect to the Chief Magistrate that he was opposed to it. The gentle man from South Carolina had said, that except inconveniences had grown out of the practice, it ought not to be altered. If the gentleman would stand on this ground, he would pardon his vote. It was not from a wish to innovate, that he wished the custom departed from, but because it had been found to be attended with real inconveniences. It was well known that heretofore two or three weeks had been consumed in debating upon an answer to the Speech, which he thought an unnecessary waste of time, and delay of public business. This he thought a serious evil, and a sufficient reason for departing from the former precedent, which was established at a time when this inconvenience was not seen. He was, therefore, willing to change it.

Mr. LYON said, it did not argue much for the age we live in, that they were to follow customs, merely because they had been established, which was all the reason the gentleman from South Carolina had given for adopting his resolution. He thought the gentleman last up had shown sufficient ground for departing from the old practice. He himself had attended to every argument he had heard in that House and out of it on the subject, in its favor, and he did not think them of any weight. He should wish to hear the reasons which gave rise to it. It was his opinion that they ought not to be bound by precedent, but every day endeavor to do better than they did the last.

The question was put, and decided in the affirmative yeas 57, nays 20, as follows:

YEAS-John Allen, George Baer, jr., Abraham Baldwin, James A. Bayard, Stephen Bullock, John Chapman, Thomas Claiborne, James Cochran, Joshua Coit, William Craik, Samuel W. Dana, George Dent, William Edmond, Thomas Evans, William Findley, Abiel Foster, Dwight Foster, Jonathan Freeman, Henry Glen, Chauncey Goodrich, William Gordon, Roger Griswold, John A. Hanna, Robert Goodloe Harper, Thomas Hartley, William Hindman, David Holmes, Hezekiah L. Hosmer, James H. Imlay, Walter Jones, Edward Livingston, Samuel Lyman, James Machir, William Mathews, Daniel Morgan, Lewis R. Morris, Harrison G. Otis, Isaac Parker, Thomas Pinckney, John Reed, John Rutledge, jr., James Schureman, William Shepard, Thomas Sinnickson, Samuel Sitgreaves, Nathaniel Smith, Richard Sprigg, jr., John Swanwick, George Thatcher, Richard Thomas, Mark Thomson, Thomas Tillinghast, John E. Van Alen, Joseph B. Varnum, Peleg Wadsworth, John Williams, and Robert Williams.

NAYS-David Bard, William Charles Cole Claiborne, Matthew Clay, John Clopton, John Dawson, Lucas Elmendorph, Albert Gallatin, Carter B. Harrison, Jonathan N. Havens, Matthew Locke, Matthew Lyon, Nathaniel Macon, Blair McClenachan, Anthony New, William Smith, Richard Stanford, Abraham Trigg, John Trigg, Philip Van Cortlandt, and Abraham Venable.

Mr. LYON said, the House had now determined upon an Address. He would move what he thought would be the proper form. [He then read the substance of his resolution.]

[H. OF R.

The SPEAKER said it was not now in order to say what the Address should be. The gentleman might, after the committee was appointed, make his motion by way of instruction to the committee; or, when the Address should be reported, he might move his as a substitute.

Mr. LYON questioned the opinion of the SPEAKER as to his being out of order. The SPEAKER declared he was so; if the gentleman still thought otherwise, he might appeal to the House.

Mr. LYON submitted, and a committee of five was appointed to draught an Answer, viz: Messrs. OTIS, DAWSON, RUTLEDGE, BAYARD, and BALDWIN. COLLECTION OF INTERNAL REVENUE.

Mr. HARPER said, amongst the unfinished business of last session, there was a bill for the more effectual collection of certain internal revenues. He wished it to be committed to a Committee of the Whole.

Mr. GALLATIN said it was unusual to go into the consideration of a bill which originated in a former session, in this summary way.

The SPEAKER said he was about to observe, that the resolution of the Committee of Revisal and Unfinished Business, which had been agreed to, did not comprise bills; they must of course be proceeded with according to the rule of the House on that subject, which he read.

Mr. HARPER consented, and withdrew his motion.

FOREIGN COINS.

Mr. VENABLE moved that a committee be appointed to consider whether any and what alterations are necessary in the law for regulating foreign coins. He said very considerable loss had been experienced in different parts of the country by foreign coins, particularly by French crowns, and he thought some regulation on this subject was immediately necessary.

Mr. MACON and Mr. HARRISON spoke of the necessity of the measure, and a committee of three was appointed.

BENJAMIN WELLS.

min Wells, collector in the western part of PennMr. FINDLEY moved that the petition of Benja sylvania, for further redress for injury sustained by the insurrection, presented the other day, be referred to a select committee.

Mr. MACON objected to its being sent to a special committee, on the same ground as when it was presented.

Mr. HARTLEY spoke in favor of a select committee, on account of the singularity of the case, and went into the merits of the claim.

Mr. SITGREAVES wished it on account of despatch, as the petitioner was waiting.

Mr. Corr acknowledged that select committees were generally more favorable to claims than the standing committee, but he did not think this ought to make them depart from their usual practice, particularly as the rule of the House was express on this head. [He read it.]

Mr. GALLATIN was in favor of a select com

H. OF R.]

Contested Elections.

[NOVEMBER, 1797.

mittee, as the petition involved the question whe-
ther any further relief ought to be granted to per-
sons of this description. He did not wish this
because he was in favor of further recompense, for
he and the people in his part of the country
thought there had been already more than suffi-
cient granted. He wished the question, however,
to coine into discussion, and to have a decision;
and as the Committee of Claims uniformly throw
out all claims which were not founded upon
some law, they would certainly throw out this, as
it asked a favor, rather than demanded a right; heted on trials of contested elections.
was in favor of its going to a select committee.
The question was put on reference to the Com-
mittee of Claims, and carried-38 to 37.

"Fourthly. Every person deposing shall make oath or affirmation to testify the whole truth, and shall subscribe the testimony by him or her given; which shall be reduced to writing only by the magistrate taking the deposition, or by the deponent, in his pressnce. The deposition so taken, together with the certificate of the notices and proof of the service of them, shall be sealed up by the magistrate who took it, and transmitted to the Speaker of the House.

EVIDENCE IN CONTESTED ELECTIONS.

Mr. HARPER said, he should lay upon the table some resolutions respecting the mode of taking evidence in contested elections. It would be recollected, he said, that the House had experienced great inconvenience for want of some fixed mode of taking evidence in such cases. Persons had been obliged to attend here for instructions, they had gone back to take the evidence, and before they could return the session probably had closed. To remedy this inconvenience, it had been thought some permanent mode might be adopted so as to prevent these double journeys and consequent expenses. The motion which he now submitted was brought forward in the session before last, but postponed for want of time.

The resolutions were as follows:

"Resolved, That the method of taking evidence to be adduced in the trial of contested elections for this House, shall hereafter be as follows:

"First. The party intending to contest an election shall give notice of such intention to the person returned. If it be an election in the usual course, this notice shall be given at least weeks before the time when the said person is to take his seat; if not in the usual course, but to fill a vacancy, then the notice shall be given within days after the persons appointed to hold the election shall have made known, publicly, the state of the poll. The notice shall be delivered in writing, at the usual residence of the person returned; and if he be absent, shall be left there open.

"Secondly. That the party intending to take examinations shall then apply to some justice or judge of the courts of the United States, or some chancellor, justice, or judge of a supreme, superior, or county court, or court of common pleas, of any State; or some mayor or chief magistrate of a town or city, and shall obtain a notification, under his hand and seal, directed to the opposite party, and requiring him to attend by himself, or his attorney, duly authorized, and cross-examine the witnesses. This notification shall state the time and place of examination, and the names of the witnesses; and it shall be served on the opposite party, or his attorney, duly authorized, as either may be nearest to such

place; provided either is within one hundred miles of it, for attendance. After receiving the notification, one day, exclusive of Sundays, shall be allowed for every twenty miles.

66

Thirdly. In all cases where either party shall give notice to the other of his having appointed an attorney for the purpose aforesaid, it shall be necessary to serve the above mentioned notification on the attorney.

in this manner, and no other, shall hereafter be admit"Resolved, That the examination of witnesses, taken

"Resolved, That copies of any papers recorded in any office of record, provided those copies be attested under the hand and seal of the recording officer, shall be admitted at all such trials, in the same manner as the original would be, if produced. In like manner, copies of any other papers of a public nature, and readmitted, when attested under the hand and seal of maining in the possession of a public officer, shall be

that officer.

"Resolved, That

copies of these resolutions shall be forwarded forthwith to the Executive of every State, with a request that they will cause the managers of every election, in their respective States, to be furnished with at least one copy."

The resolutions were committed to a Committee

of the Whole for Wednesday.

The House then adjourned till Monday next.

MONDAY, November 27.

A new member, to wit: BAILey Bartlett, returned to serve in this House as a member for Massachusetts, in the place of Theophilus Bradbury, who has resigned his seat, appeared, produced his credentials, and took his seat in the House; the oath to support the Constitution of the United States being first administered to him by Mr. SPEAKER, according to law.

Several other members, to wit: from Massachusetts, SAMUEL SEWALL; from New York, DAVID BROOKS; from Maryland, JOHN DENNIS; from Virginia, JOHN NICHOLAS and JOSIAH PARKER; and from North Carolina, THOMAS BLOUNT, appeared and took their seats in the House.

REPORT ON CLAIMS.

Mr. DWIGHT FOSTER, from the Committee of Claims, presented a report, which stated that the committee having examined the files and Journals of the second session of the fourth Congress, found sundry petitions and memorials referred to the Committee of Claims, which, for want of time, had not been reported upon; and that some of the petitioners being now attending to learn the issue of their applications, they proposed a resolution for the adoption of the House to the following effect:

session of the fourth Congress, were referred to the "Resolved, That all claims which, during the second be, and the same are hereby, referred to the Committee Committee of Claims, and not by them reported upon, of Claims, to be by them reported upon agreeably to

the rules of the House."

The resolution was agreed to.

The SPEAKER observed, that there had been an

NOVEMBER, 1797.]

Answer to the President's Speech.

[H. OF R.

order made last week contrary to the rules of the persuading a committee to report it; if not, it was House, by committing a bill to a Committee of better that it should be amended before its introthe Whole, which had originated at a former ses-duction. He believed, therefore, that they had sion, without introducing it in the way directed better go on in their usual way, and avoid innoby the rules. It would be necessary, therefore, to vation. discharge the committee from the committal. Mr. LIVINGSTON accordingly moved that the Committee of the Whole, to whom was referred the bill relative to refugees from Canada and Nova Scotia, be discharged from the consideration. Agreed to.

Mr. WILLIAMS then moved that a committee be appointed to prepare and bring in a bill for that purpose. Agreed to, and a committee of three appointed.

RULES OF THE HOUSE.

Mr. LIVINGSTON observed, at the beginning of the first session of the last Congress, a committee was appointed to prepare and report standing rules for the regulation of the House. He moved that such a committee be now appointed.

Mr. HARPER thought, on consideration, the gentleman would find this motion to be unnecessary. They had been in the habit, it was true, of heretofore appointing a committee to report a new set of rules; but he believed it would be allowed that the usefulness of rules depended in some degree upon their permanency. He thought they were changed too often, without good reason, which produced an uncertainty in the conducting of business. He saw no inconvenience which would attend the adoption of the present rules. He thought them sufficient; and if any gentleman wished to introduce any new rule, or to change an old one, he might do it by way of motion.

Mr. LIVINGSTON said, the usual course was to appoint a committee to report a set of rules; and in the mean time the old ones were declared binding. With respect to the present rules, he had discovered several inconveniences. He would mention one, which was that requiring all bills to be introduced in the same way, though they had undergone discussion at a former session; the inconvenience of which had just been seen, and which he thought a dilatory practice. The idea of the gentleman from South Carolina that they ought not to change their rules, he did not think deserved all the weight which he gave it. Every House, by the Constitution, was to be the judge of its own rules, and the adopting those of a former House was merely a temporary expedient. If the House, however, should not think proper to go into a revision of the old rules, he should move such alterations in them as appeared to him necessary.

Mr. HARPER replied, if the inconvenience which had been mentioned had existence, it might be removed by a particular motion; but he was doubtful whether the thing complained of was an inconvenience. He believed they were seldom too slow in passing laws; the contrary was more frequently the case. The more formalities required, and the greater number of aspects in which a law was seen, the more likely it would be to be good. If a gentleman, wishing to introduce a bill, had drawn it up well, he would have no difficulty in 5th CoN.-21

Mr. GALLATIN said, as this motion was in conformity to the constant practice of the House, he could not see with what propriety it could be called an innovation.

Mr. SITGREAVES believed the rules of the last House were already the rules of this, by a resolution of last session."

The motion was put and negatived-37 to 32.

UNIFORM MILITIA SYSTEM.

Mr. WILLIAMS said, it was generally allowed that the present militia laws were not only very expensive in their execution, but very inadequate in their effects. The subject had before been under consideration; but, for want of time, was passed over. He, therefore, proposed a resolution to the following effect:

"Resolved, That a committee be appointed to report whether any and what amendments are necessary to the act providing an uniform militia system throughout the United States."

Agreed to, and a committee of five appointed.

ADDRESS TO THE PRESIDENT. Mr. OTIS, from the committee appointed to the President of the United States, reported the draught an Address in answer to the Speech of following, which was twice read, and referred to a Committee of the Whole for to-morrow:

SIR: While our sympathy is excited by the recent sufferings of the citizens of Philadelphia, we participate in the satisfaction which you are pleased to express, that the duration of the late calamity was so limited, as to render unnecessary the expense and inconvenience that would have been incident to the convention of Congress in another place: and we shall readily attend to every useful amendment of the law which contemplates the event of contagious sickness

at the seat of Government.

In lamenting the increase of the injuries offered to the persons and property of our citizens at sea, we gratefully acknowledge the continuance of interior tranquillity, and the attendant blessings of which you remind us, as alleviations of these fatal effects of injustice and violence.

Whatever may be the result of the mission to the French Republic, your early and uniform attachment to the interest of our country; your important services in the struggle for its independence, and your unceas ing exertions for its welfare, afford no room to doubt of the sincerity of your efforts to conduct the negotiation to a successful conclusion, on such terms as may be compatible with the safety, honor, and interest of the United States. We have also a firm reliance upon the energy and unanimity of the people of these States, in the assertion of their rights, and on their determination to exert, upon all proper occasions, their ample resources in providing for the national defence.

The importance of commerce, and its beneficial influence upon agriculture, arts, and manufactures, have been verified in the growth and prosperity of our country. It is essentially connected with the other great interests of the community. They must flourish and

H. OF R.]

Answer to the President's Speech.

decline together; and while the extension of our navigation and trade naturally excites the jealousy, and tempts the avarice of other nations, we are firmly persuaded, that the numerous and deserving class of citizens engaged in these pursuits, and dependent on them for their subsistence, has a strong and indisputable claim to our support and protection.

The delay of the Spanish officers to fulfil the treaty existing with His Catholic Majesty is a source of deep regret. We learn, however, with satisfaction, that you still indulge hopes of removing the objections which have been made to its execution, and that you have continued in readiness to receive the posts. Disposed to perform, with fidelity, our national engagements, we shall insist upon the same justice from others

which we exercise towards them.

Our abhorrence cannot be too strongly expressed of the intrigues of foreign agents to alienate the affections of the Indian nations, and to rouse them to acts of hostility against the United States. No means in our power should be omitted of providing for the suppression of such cruel practices, and for the adequate punishment of their atrocious authors.

Upon the other interesting subjects noticed in your Address, we shall bestow the requisite attention. To preserve inviolate the public faith, by providing for the due execution of our treaties; to indemnify those who may have just claims to retribution upon the United States for expenses incurred in defending the property and relieving the necessities of our unfortunate fellowcitizens; to guard against evasions of the laws intended to secure advantages to the navigation of our own vessels; and especially, to prevent, by all possible means, an unnecessary accumulation of the public debt, are duties which we shall endeavor to keep in view, and discharge with assiduity.

We regard, with great anxiety, the singular and portentous situation of the principal Powers of Europe. It was to be devoutly wished that the United States, remote from this seat of war and discord; unambitious of conquest; respecting the rights of other nations; and desirous, merely, to avail themselves of their natural resources, might be permitted to behold the scenes which desolate that quarter of the globe with only those sympathetic emotions which are natural to the lovers of peace and friends of the human But we are led by events to associate with these feelings a sense of the dangers which menace our security and peace. We rely upon your assurances of a zealous and hearty concurrence in such measures as may be necessary to avert these dangers; and nothing on our part shall be wanting to repel them, which the honor, safety, and prosperity of our country may require.

race.

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[NOVEMBER. 1797.

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Mr. LIVINGSTON said, there were two courses to be taken in the introducing of bills. The gentleman from South Carolina had chosen that which directed the appointment of a committee to report a bill. He might have adopted the mode proposed by the gentleman from Connecticut; but there could be no question as to the propriety of the present motion.

Mr. BALDWIN observed that the way in which the gentleman from Connecticut might obtain his end, would be, by moving to commit the motion. Mr. Corr accordingly moved that the motion be committed.

mode of proceeding, which might be urged in ordiMr. BALDWIN added, that the objections to this the committee appointed would see the several nary cases, were not applicable in this; because solemn decisions which had heretofore been had on this subject, and would calculate whether it would be worth their while to go over the same ground which had heretofore been trodden with so little success. If he recollected right, the late colleague of the present mover in the business introduced the measure in the first session of Congress under the present Government; but it was attended with so many difficulties, that the gentleman himself was discouraged from proceeding with it. Almost every Congress since have had the subject before them. He believed that not less than five or six bills had gone out the same

course.

and our interests so various, that no system of bankOur country, he said, was so extensive, ruptcy, he believed, could be formed to suit all its the several bills heretofore rejected, could suggest parties. If, indeed, the committee, after revising any new provisions which might appear to obviate former objections, or if there should appear to them to be any new circumstances in the present situation of the country which should even call for the law with its former deficiencies, they will of course report a bill. If the contrary should be the course, they will report it as their opinion.

The motion was agreed to, and a committee of five was appointed, viz: Messrs. HARPER, COIT, NICHOLAS, SITGREAVES, and BALDWIN.

TUESDAY, November 28. SAMUEL SMITH, from Maryland, appeared and took his seat.

Mr. Oris presented the petition of Deborah Gannett, praying compensation for her services as a soldier in the Revolutionary war, under the name of Robert Shirtcliff; stating that she is able to produce certificates, not only of her having served, but

NOVEMBER, 1797.]

also of having been wounded. Committee of Claims.

Answer to the President's Speech.

Referred to the

ADDRESS TO THE PRESIDENT.

Mr. Corr moved for the order of the day on the reported Answer to the President's Speech.

The motion being agreed to, the House accordingly resolved itself into a Committee of the Whole upon that subject, and the Address having been read through by the Chairman, it was again read by paragraphs. The first four were read, without any objection being offered to them. The fifth being gone through,

[H. OF R.

Mr. VENABLE said, it was an objection to the proposed amendment, that the same phraseology occurred in the last paragraph. He thought, therefore, it would be best to change the words in the way he had suggested; for, though the word expect was less harsh, he thought it equally forcible with insist.

Mr. BAYARD was in favor of the amendment of the gentleman from South Carolina; and if the same phraseology had been proposed in the select committee, he should there have supported it. He did not think the substitute which had been proposed by the gentleman frem Virginia would proMr. PINCKNEY said, he had to propose a small duce the effect intended by the gentleman from alteration to this clause: he wished to make the South Carolina. It was the intention of the comlatter part of it a little less harsh. Instead of say-mittee who reported the Address, to say something ing, "we shall insist upon the same justice from on the subject; but the proposed substitute said others," &c., he thought it would have the same nothing. As to the objection of the gentleman, effect, and the terms would be less objectionable, on account of the same phraseology occurring in if the passage ran thus: "Nothing shall be want another part of the Address, there would be no difing on our part to obtain the same justice from ficulty in rectifying that, so as to produce that others." &c. The expression used, he said, might variety which the gentleman seemed so desirous be perfectly justifiable, but, if we could obtain what of having. we wished without the possibility of giving offence, he thought that mode ought to be preferred. It was on this account that he wished the phraseol ogy to be changed.

Mr. VENABLE would suggest an amendment, which he thought would produce the effect wished by the gentleman last up, without changing the phraseology so much as he had proposed. The way in which this might be done, would be by striking out the word "insist," and inserting that of expect.

Mr. PINCKNEY did not think this amendment would produce the effect he wished. Expectation, he said, might be entertained, without making an effort to obtain the object. We had already expected a long time, without effort. He wished to express the same firmness which the committee intended by their report, but, at the same time, to avoid anything like harshness. If the effect of the proposed substitute had appeared to be the same, he should have been sorry to have cavilled about words.

Mr. RUTLEDGE said, as a member of the committee who reported the Address, he did not feel tenacious as to the wording of it. At first, he thought with his colleague, who proposed the amendment, that the word insist was rather harsh; but, upon a little reflection, his objections to the phrase were removed. Indeed, he thought the proposed amendment would make the passage stronger than it was in the original. They might insist, he said, in argument; looking upon the treaty as a good one, they might insist upon its execution; but if it were not to be effected without going to war, they might afterwards relinquish it. The amendment he thought more forcible. It said "nothing shall be wanting to obtain." &c.; which would be to say, we look upon the treaty as a good one, and nothing shall be wanting on our part to obtain its fulfilment. The words might even be considered to say, that we are determined to have the treaty carried into effect, though war should be the price of the determination.

Mr. DAYTON (the Speaker) approved of the amendment of the gentleman from South Carolina, but not from the reasons which that gentleman had urged in support of it, but for those which his colleague had produced against it; not because it was more smooth, but because it contained more of decision and firmness. He thought, in this respect, this country had been trifled with, and any opinion expressed by them upon this subject ought to be done with a firmness of tone.

Mr. LIVINGSTON said, as gentlemen thought it necessary to give the reasons of their vote upon this occasion, be would just mention his. If it were intended to be inferred by the phraseology used upon this occasion, (as some gentlemen seemed to suppose,) that they were disposed to go to war in support of the Executive in their construction of the negotiation with Spain, he was not prepared to say this for his constituents. He did not think the subject was sufficiently matured to give this decision. He considered the proposition as a general one, and preferred the amendment of the gentleman from South Carolina to the original. He did not, indeed, think it materially different, until he heard the objections urged against it by a gentleman who was upon the committee, (Mr. RUTLEDGE.) He had said they might insist in argument. How insist in argument? What had the House to do with argument? Were they to carry on the treaty? No. All the insisting they could show must be by acts, and not by argument.

The question on Mr. PINCKNEY'S amendment was put and carried, there being sixty-two members in the affirmative.

The remainder of the Address was then gone through, without further observation.

Mr. HARPER inquired, whether it would now be in order to go back to the first paragraph. On the Chairman's informing him it would, he said he thought there was an expression in the latter part of that paragraph which would require alteration. He meant that part which spoke of the law which contemplates contagious sickness at the seat of

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