Daniel Morgan, Anthony New, John Nicholas, Elisha R. Potter, John Reed, Tompson J. Skinner, Samuel Smith, William Smith, of Pinckney District, Richard Sprigg, jun., Richard Stanford, Thomas Sumter, John Swanwick, Abram Trigg, John Trigg, Philip Van Cortlandt, Joseph B. Varnum, Abraham Venable, and John Williams.

NAYS-John Allen, George Baer, jun., James A. Bayard, Theophilus Bradbury, David Brooks, Christopher G. Champlin, James Cochran, William Craik, Samuel W. Dana, James Davenport, George Dent, Abiel Foster, Dwight Foster, Jonathan Freeman, Henry Glen, Chauncey Goodrich, Roger Griswold, William B. Grove, Robert Goodloe Harper, Thomas Hartley, William Hindman, Hezekiah L. Hosmer, James H. Imlay, John Wilkes Kittera, Samuel Lyman, James Machir, Harrison G. Otis, Josiah Parker, John Rutledge, jun., James

Schureman, Samuel Sewall, William Shepard, Thomas Sinnickson, Samuel Sitgreaves, Jeremiah Smith, Nathaniel Smith, William Smith, of Charleston, Geo. Thatcher, Richard Thomas, Mark Thomson, John E. Van Alen, Peleg Wadsworth, and Robert Williams.

The bill was ordered to be engrossed for a third reading to-morrow.

A confidential Message was received from the President of the United States, when the House was cleared, and the doors closed, for the purpose of reading and taking the proper order with the said communication.

SATURDAY, June 24.

Mr. GALLATIN presented two petitions; one from persons in the vicinity of the Ohio, complaining of the deficiency in the quantity of land purchased from the United States; the other from upwards of 100 persons in the same quarter, complaining that they were not able to become purchasers at the United States sale from the conspiracy of speculators. Referred to the Secretary of the Treasury.

Mr. J. SMITH, from the Committee of Revisal and Unfinished Business, made a report of expiring laws; the committee also expressed a doubt whether the act passed last session for fixing the next meeting of Congress on the first of November. was not superseded by the present extraordinary meeting.

A committee was appointed to report a bill on the subject of expiring laws, but

Mr. SITGREAVES thought it unnecessary to appoint a committee on the subject of the law for fixing the next meeting of Congress, as he did not think the present extra meeting could affect that law; since it was the province of the President to call extra sessions of Congress; but it was the business of Congress to fix the annual meetings, and that therefore the two powers could not be allowed to infringe upon each other.

Mr. W. SMITH differed in opinion, and wished the report to lie upon the table, or a committee to be appointed to concur with the Senate.

A committee of conference was appointed.

PURCHASE OF ARMS.

Mr. BLOUNT, from the committee appointed to report on the resolution proposing to purchase

i

[H. of R.

arms, reported it as their opinion that the subject should lie over till next session.

Mr. W. SMITH thought the subject important, and wished the report to lie upon the table, which was agreed to.

PROTECTION OF TRADE.

The bill for providing for the protection of the commerce of the United States was read the third time, and the blank for filling up the number of men to be employed in the cutters, was filled up with thirty; on the question being about to be put on the passing of the bill,

Mr. NICHOLAS said some statements had been received from the War Department, and ordered to be printed. He had not seen a copy of them, but was informed there were yet wanting $197,000 to complete the frigates. He wished information on the subject.

Mr. PARKER read an extract from the account which had been printed.

Mr. NICHOLAS wished to know how it happened that in four months so great a mistake could have occurred as to the expense of finishing these vessels. When the last appropriation of $170,000 was made, they were told that sum would be sufficient to make them fit to receive the men on board, but now they were called upon for $197,000 more. He thought this matter ought not to pass over without inquiry, as he did not like to be drawn from step to step to do what, if the whole matter had been seen at first, they might not have consented to. He trusted this was not intentionally done, but he owned it looked very suspicious.

Mr. PARKER believed the estimate of last session was only to make the vessels ready to receive the guns on board, and did not include the guns. the passage of the bill, he would briefly state his reasons for doing so. He knew only of two arguments in favor of the bill; the first, that it was dation of a navy; the other was, that, the frigates necessary during a time of peace to lay the founbeing built, it would be proper to man them. As to the propriety of having a navy, he did not mean to go generally into the subject, but he would make a few observations as to our situation for engaging navies were necessary in European nations, to in an establishment of this kind. Suppose that increase their power or to protect their commerce, these considerations did not apply to our present circumstances. In order to prove this, it was only necessary to take a view of our revenue, and the expense of a fleet.

Mr. GALLATIN said, as he meant to vote against

The amount of revenue, from the 1st of April, 1796, to the 1st of April. 1797, received into the Treasury, was $7,400,000-a sum which by far exceeded that of any former year; and he did not think that the permanent revenue of the United States could be well extended beyond that sum. For instance, he did not think that nine millions could be raised from the people without oppression. Indeed, by the best calculations on the quantity of circulating medium in the country, it was not allowed to exceed eight millions; and he did not believe that any nation could raise a larger sum in

taxes than was equal to the amount of their circulating specie.

He should therefore vote against this bill, because he did not believe we could raise revenue equal to the expense of supporting a fleet; for, although we had a large capital in hand, we had but a small quantity of circulating medium; and, from our scattered situation, that medium circulated much slower than in small compact countries; and it must be allowed that the quantity of revenue which could be raised depended on the amount of circulating medium.

In order to show what the expense of a Navy might be expected to be, Mr. G. made the following statement of the cost of our three frigates: Amount appropriated in 1794 for the

six frigates, grounded on a calculation then made by the committtee, of $2,588 per gun, including six months provision and three months pay The above sum was in 1796 appro1796 priated to finish the three frigates, together with a sum before appropriated for galleys, of

In 1797 an additional sum was voted, of

[JUNE, 1797.

60,000 00

$280,000 00

70,000 00 $350,000 00

80,000 00

172,000 00

10,000 00

$950,888 82

197,636 00

$1,148,524 82 135.074 48

$1,014,450 34

$220,000 00

In March, 1795, $172,000 were said to be sufficient to complete the three frigates. In June, 1797, it is officially stated, that, exclusively of money requisite for guns and military stores, $126,645 are wanted for the same purpose, viz: that of completing the three frigates; therefore, no security that the sum now asked will be found sufficient.

When he heard gentlemen stating the advantages of the naval strength of Denmark and Sweden to those countries, he could not agree with them altogether, though he agreed they had some weight; but it was well known that the Grand Navy of Portugal had no weight whatever in the scale of the large navies of Europe; it did not even enable her to protect her trade: for, if either France or Great Britain had the superiority in the Mediterranean, she was under their control. He believed Denmark and Sweden had thirty sail of the line each, and he wished gentlemen to calculate how much it would cost us to have such a Navy. A fleet of a few vessels would not then be able to afford protection to our trade; and it was wholly out of our power to have a fleet equal to that of Denmark or Sweden.

Mr. G. went to the second argument used for passing this bill, viz: that the frigates being now built, it would be proper to arm them. He believed the bill to be as unexceptionable and harmless as they could make it, and the only objection he had to it was the expense. If we were to have war, the frigates being built, he should certainly think it necessary to man them; and if the bill went no farther than to enable the President to man them, in case of a war, he would vote for it; but it authorized the President to man them when he should think it expedient, and as he has told them that they and other vessels were now necessary, he doubted not he would proceed to man them immediately, which he thought would be incurring an unnecessary expense. For, if there were a declaration of war to-morrow, more men could be obtained in three weeks than there could be in a state of peace in three months. He therefore thought it would be proper to reject the bill, though he had no hopes it would be rejected. During the present session, he said, he had voted for a number of things which he did not think ne

cessary, but which were not calculated to do any harm. He would gladly have done the same with respect to this; but he could not reconcile himself to the additional expense of half of a million of dollars for a purpose which could be of no use except in case of war.

Mr. SWANWICK believed the expense of these frigates had been much greater than any future ones would be. When they were told they had cost £2,000 sterling a gun, it was evident there must have been great extravagance in the expense, as merchant vessels might be built as cheaply in this country as in any other. He supposed the extra expense had been owing to the want of some regular establishment to overlook the business, and because it had been undertaken at a time when other nations were at war, and of course when materials were very high. Sixteen thousand dollars worth of hemp had indeed been burnt by accident at Boston. As to the terms of seamen, though they might at first be high, when the service was known he doubted not they would fall. But it was said a small naval force would be of no use to us. He thought it would be of great use, from our contiguity to the West Indies; as, in case of hostilities committed upon us, by any European Power, we might at once fall upon their rich possessions in that quarter. Our experience in this war, he said, had proved the use that such a fleet would be of to us. Indeed, the French had frequently charged us with not protecting our trade, and seemed to reprimand us for our weakness. And, when they heard of small row-boats taking our merchant vessels, did not every man wish for a small naval force to protect our trade? He trusted they did; and these vessels would be of great use in this way. Besides, Mr. S. said, can any gentleman believe that the European Powers will be able to keep up their present enormous naval establishments for any length of time? He did not believe they could. Mr. S. did not think because our circulating specie was not more than eight millions, that our taxes could not exceed that sum; as, besides specie, there was a large quantity of bank paper. Nobody would believe that the circulating specie of Great Britain amounted to twenty-five millions; yet their annual taxes were to that amount. In England he knew the use of a paper medium had been greatly abused; but the abuse of a thing could not argue against

the use of it.

Mr. S. was firmly of opinion that, in the course of time, this country must become a great maritime Power; and he doubted not that, in time of general peace, armed ships would be built for half the price which they had cost.

He hoped, therefore, when his colleague had obtained his wish (in which he had willingly concurred with him) in restricting the use of the vessels, he would not now vote against the passage of the bill.

Mr. J. WILLIAMs said, he had always opposed the establishment of a navy, and was the question now whether or not we should commence a navy he should certainly be against it; but, as the frigates were so far advanced, he thought they ought

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to finish them, especially when they considered the present critical situation of our affairs; for, if a general peace did not take place in Europe, the war would probably become a maritime war, and we might be involved in it. But he was still of opinion that if we must go into an expensive naval establishment for the protection of our commerce, we had better have none. But, say gentlemen, where will you find revenue? He believed, though we had no armed force, a considerable commerce would still be carried on, and those who declined it would turn their attention to agriculture and manufactures, from which any deficiency of revenue would readily be supplied.

It was true, as had been stated, that they had been called upon from time to time for additional sums to complete these frigates, and he knew not when these calls would end.

Mr. W. went into a calculation of the expense of these vessels, and compared the situation of this country with Europe, and concluded that it would be our best policy to stand aloof from all foreign Powers. He would, however, go so far for the protection of our commerce as the building of six frigates; further he should not choose to go.

Mr. GILES was obliged to the gentleman last up for his speech against the present bill, though he meant to vote for it; he would rather, however, that he had spoken in favor, and voted against the bill. Mr. G. said he should vote against the passing of the bill, and for the reasons assigned by that gentleman. He thought a navy would be a great evil for this country. Our great interests lay in the soil; and if ever the vitals of the country were to be drawn together for the purpose of protecting our commerce on the sea, he should greatly lament it. He believed the despotism of nations kept pace with the ratio of expense of their Governments. He was sorry to say that he was more and more convinced that it was the constant aim of some gentlemen in that House to increase the expenses of our Government. The propriety of establishing a navy had scarcely ever been seriously considered; it was first begun under an alarm, and it had been continually carried on by the same means. Mr. G. adverted to the methods employed to raise men by pressing, in all countries where navies were established, and insisted that navies and press-gangs were inseparaable; for, said he, the wages of seamen are now thirty dollars a month, and when men are wanted for the frigates the price will doubtless be increased, and the press-gang must be resorted to, or the navy must be abandoned.

Mr. HARPER said, gentlemen seem to abandon their objections to this bill by admitting that there was no probability it would not pass. But why? Because a majority of the House either think the measure is proper in itself, or from the particular circumstances of this country. It was surely a singular instance of modesty in gentlemen, after this concession, to argue against the passing of the bill. Mr. H. did not admit that these frigates were commenced from an idea of laying the founda

tion of a large Navy Establishment, but from particular circumstances; and, said he, shall we, at a time when we are threatened with danger, abandon them? He trusted not; such conduct would be absurd in the extreme, and imply a character of imbecility which he hoped their councils would never deserve.

Mr. H. agreed that our Government depended upon the affections of the people for its support; but how were these affections to be gained? It was by protecting them with a dignified, enlarged, and confirmed policy. By these means the country would become strong; and if the people saw their Government, from the paltry idea of expense, abandon its rights, they would not care what became of it.

[JUNE, 1797.

the liberty and independence of this country were of superior value to money? He trusted they were. He could only suppose, therefore, that men who objected against the expense, must themselves be sordid and avaricious. If these frigates had been provided four years ago, he believed all our present difficulties would have been prevented, and a sum vastly less than that of which we had been robbed would have done the business. Mr. A. denied that ships of war could now be built in England for £1,000 a gun; that was formerly the price, but they now cost £1,500 per gun.

Mr. A. concluded that it was not wonderful that men who had been opposed to every valuable measure which had been brought forward since the existence of the Government, should also be opposed to this.

Mr. H. denied that navies in every country were supported by press-gangs: those of Holland, Sweden, Denmark, France, and Portugal, were supported without impressment; and in England a very small proportion of the men employed on board their fleet were impressed. It was only in sudden emergencies that this practice was resorted to. All that would be necessary in this country, would be to give somewhat higher wages than the British. He hoped, therefore, the bill would pass.

Mr. ALLEN said, he had some objection to the passing of the bill, but his objections were to the amendments which had been introduced into it, yet he did not know but he should vote for it. He thought there was a provision in the bill which went to prostrate this Government. He alluded to that part of it which directed the manner in which this force should be used. He considered this as a violation of the Constitution, besides carrying upon the face of it an idea that one of the branches of this Government could not be trusted with the exercise of its power. Was it possible, he asked, for a Government to exist, when this confidence was refused to one of its branches? What were the people of the United States, and abroad, to think of this? Would not the people of this country think it their duty to destroy a power which could not be trusted; and would not foreigners despise it? If seemed as if this were the intention of gentlemen.

Mr. A. also objected to the clause limiting the duration of this bill; since this went to say that they not only distrusted the other branches of the Government, but themselves. A thing which must in its nature be perpetual, was there limited. He deprecated the idea of expense being an objection to this measure. Our emancipation from the chains of Great Britain, he said, was attended with a great expense; but was it not believed that

Mr. GILES wished to make a remark or two upon what had fallen from the gentleman from Connecticut, though he by no means meant to follow him through all his ravings; he had charged this bill with being a violation of the Constitution, yet, in the next breath, said he should vote for it. He would remind that gentleman of his qualification oath, wherein he had sworn to support the Constitution. And were that man to be proclaimed a protector of the liberties of his country, exclaimed Mr. G., who shall first declare a meaure to be unconstitutional, and still vote for it? The idea seemed absurd. Mr. G. defended what he had before said about ali navies being supported, more or less, by means of impressment.

Mr. NICHOLAS had always been of opinion, that the expense of these frigates was a useless expense; he did not believe a case could happen, except within our own jurisdiction, where these vessels could be of advantage to us; but notwithstanding this was his opinion, he should vote for the passing of this bill, because he saw the sentiments of that House and the public were strongly in its favor, from a persuasion that the measure was necessary, and that the thing would be a continual topic of dispute until it was carried into effect.

He was willing, therefore, to let the vessels go to sea, believing that nothing short of actual experience would convince the supporters of this measure that it was useless, expensive, and injurious; and hoping that by one year's experience of the plaything, finding that money was of greater value than the frigates, all parties would concur in relinquishing it.

Mr. SEWALL said, that the arguments which had been used against this bill for the protection of the trade of the United States, went to show that commerce was useless, and that the protection